Still can’t figure out what’s wrong with wrasse

[Frtdrmrose7]

He just turns to his side and looks like he tries to rub, but then doesn't scratch against the rock.

My wife was saying the same thing saying he's stir crazy being in QT so long and that I sold his "friend" rabbitfish. He's been like this ever since I sold my rabbitfish. He spazzes and has smacked the mesh net a few times (He stopped hitting the top when I replaced it with a glass top) . My water parameters are super clean with very low nitrates and 0 ammonia.

I'm honestly at a loss at this point with him. He started acting like this when I started selling his "friends" when I was downgrading my tank.

Doing the fenbendazole would be good for your peace of mind but as I said above I don’t see true flashing. I think so the bath, observe for a week and see what happens. He might also have irritation from copper that is healing.

 

[ReefWithCare]

I watched the video pretty closely, I don't see too much "scratching" he looks more like he is kind of darting and spazzing out. Is he rubbing on things in the tank, or just kind of darting around? While I do agree treating for prazi-resistant flukes is a good idea, just in case, I think that maybe if he is still doing this after the treatment I wouldn't keep him permanently banned to QT. It might be that he settles down once he is in your tank with other fishes and a more natural environment.

My moyer's wrasse has been settled for a few weeks now, and is still the most spastic fish I've ever owned. And he is one of 6 wrasses, and the only one that acts like he does. I'll be sitting on my couch and he will randomly shoot out of the water and hit the net top for no reason whatsoever. He kind of darts like that when he swims sometimes too... I think there are sometimes "high-strung" fish, just like any other animal lol.

@ngoodermuth - here's another 90 second observation - I just uploaded so HD quality may not be available yet.

 

[ngoodermuth]

He definitely looks stressed, I just don’t think it looks like typical scratching. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing going on... I just can’t see anything specific.

I think with no flukes in the freshwater dip, I’d maybe wonder if there’s another explanation.

You’ve done copper, and prazi. Any other meds so far?

 

[lagatbezan]

have you checked for stray voltage?

 

[ReefWithCare]

He definitely looks stressed, I just don’t think it looks like typical scratching. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing going on... I just can’t see anything specific.

I think with no flukes in the freshwater dip, I’d maybe wonder if there’s another explanation.

You’ve done copper, and prazi. Any other meds so far?

I’ve done copper, PraziPro, and metro. Metro was feed directly through focus.

I will also note all other fish with him displayed no symptoms and several were sold to ppl who have reported nothing but great things. All the fish were sold before he started to display this behavior. He started acting like this when he was the last fish left.

 

[ReefWithCare]

have you checked for stray voltage?

I haven’t - do you have a meter you would recommend?

 

[ngoodermuth]

I’ve done copper, PraziPro, and metro. Metro was feed directly through focus.

I will also note all other fish with him displayed no symptoms and several were sold to ppl who have reported nothing but great things. All the fish were sold before he started to display this behavior. He started acting like this when he was the last fish left.

It’s your fish, and your tank... so it’s up to you. From a “prophylactic” standpoint, the only things you haven’t covered would be brook (metro in the water column) and resistant flukes. From the negative freshwater dip, could probably rule out the latter.

So, if you wanted to be extra safe... you could do 10-14 days of metro, and/or an acriflavine or formalin bath between the QT and your DT for good measure. If it were me, I would at least do the acriflavine (ruby reef rally)... it’s easy on fish, and could act as a fail safe in case brook might be a factor.

But based on your descriptions so far, I think he’s probably just stressing over being the “last man standing” or like mentioned above (stray voltage) an environmental aspect of your QT.

 

[ReefWithCare]

I just finished up the 12 hr dip and dropped him into a sterile QT. He seems a little more colorful and perky.

He was playing dead in the bucket. He let me scoop him up by hand [emoji79]. Woke right up when I put him into the new QT.

 

[Kal93]

Honestly, he looks more antsy than ill, especially if there are no signs of disease.

If you want to be very careful, it could be flukes--I would feed treated food, just in case.

 

[4FordFamily]

Time to consider fenbendazole as your wrasse may have prazi resistant flukes.

https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Laboratories-Bendazole-Fenbendazole-packets/dp/B009TAQ4OI

I agree

He definitely looks stressed, I just don’t think it looks like typical scratching. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing going on... I just can’t see anything specific.

I think with no flukes in the freshwater dip, I’d maybe wonder if there’s another explanation.

You’ve done copper, and prazi. Any other meds so far?

I also agree. I am not 100% sold that it's twitching from an ailment, it almost looks neurological in nature. Has it worsened, improved, or stayed about the same over the time in quarantine?

 

[ReefWithCare]

I agree



I also agree. I am not 100% sold that it's twitching from an ailment, it almost looks neurological in nature. Has it worsened, improved, or stayed about the same over the time in quarantine?

I gave him the a Fenbendazole bath for 12 hrs so got that covered.

He has been getting worse. Ever since I sold off all his friends and he was the sole fish in the QT. It's like he's been depressed and paranoid. He still eats aggressively. He was the most active fish in QT when I had everyone in there and eventually started to pick at our rabbitfish, but eventually stopped and they just schooled together. He was in a full blown 125G reef before and I moved everyone over to QT when I downgraded my tank and sold every fish that was too big to fit in my smaller tank. I used 2 29G QTs as holding tanks for the fish as I slowly sold everything over time.

 

[4FordFamily]

I gave him the a Fenbendazole bath for 12 hrs so got that covered.

He has been getting worse. Ever since I sold off all his friends and he was the sole fish in the QT. It's like he's been depressed and paranoid. He still eats aggressively. He was the most active fish in QT when I had everyone in there and eventually started to pick at our rabbitfish, but eventually stopped and they just schooled together. He was in a full blown 125G reef before and I moved everyone over to QT when I downgraded my tank and sold every fish that was too big to fit in my smaller tank. I used 2 29G QTs as holding tanks for the fish as I slowly sold everything over time.

This makes me feel like the issue is nerves. Fish naturally like to be in company of other fish, not because they are "friends" but because they look to the other fish for cues about their safety. If a predator enters their part of the reef, someone notices and the fish all dart for the rocks and hide. A lone fish on the reef is anxious and nervous. This is why quarantining fish singly (in my opinion) adds stress. Instinctually they know if they're the lone fish out swimming on the reef, there is probably a reason (often inherent danger). They'll be more "paranoid" in behavior if this is their setting.

You see this in terrestrial animals as well. Squirrels, deer, rabbits, birds -- they all look for cues from each other to indicate predators in the area. Safety in numbers.

Enter a flasher wrasse which is already a flighty, nervous fish and you have a potential explanation for the fish's behavior. Particularly with your description of how this has worsened in the absence of other fish, intuitively this makes sense to me on the grounds above.

 

[ReefWithCare]

This makes me feel like the issue is nerves. Fish naturally like to be in company of other fish, not because they are "friends" but because they look to the other fish for cues about their safety. If a predator enters their part of the reef, someone notices and the fish all dart for the rocks and hide. A lone fish on the reef is anxious and nervous. This is why quarantining fish singly (in my opinion) adds stress. Instinctually they know if they're the lone fish out swimming on the reef, there is probably a reason (often inherent danger). They'll be more "paranoid" in behavior if this is their setting.

You see this in terrestrial animals as well. Squirrels, deer, rabbits, birds -- they all look for cues from each other to indicate predators in the area. Safety in numbers.

Enter a flasher wrasse which is already a flighty, nervous fish and you have a potential explanation for the fish's behavior. Particularly with your description of how this has worsened in the absence of other fish, intuitively this makes sense to me on the grounds above.

This also makes a lot more sense to me. He was one of the few wild-caught fish I obtained. Nearly every other fish was tank-bred or so tiny when first acquired that you could technically say they are "tank-raised" when they got sold. I've throw tank-bred fish solo in QT before and they never really seem to mind.

I had a few questions since he is in a sterile QT now. It's a 20L and he's barely 3" in size:

- How often should I change the water? I had to toss out my ammonia badge since they were in the old QT. I used a fresh bottle of Bio Spira to get it going.
- How long should I leave him in there for observation? He has a decent size established reef tank waiting for him with other fish and plenty of space to roam.
- Any other signs to look for? I am concerned that he's gotten worse because he's alone and if that the major issue I'm probably doing more damage to him leaving him in QT at this point right?

 

[4FordFamily]

This also makes a lot more sense to me. He was one of the few wild-caught fish I obtained. Nearly every other fish was tank-bred or so tiny when first acquired that you could technically say they are "tank-raised" when they got sold. I've throw tank-bred fish solo in QT before and they never really seem to mind.

I had a few questions since he is in a sterile QT now. It's a 20L and he's barely 3" in size:

- How often should I change the water? I had to toss out my ammonia badge since they were in the old QT
- How long should I leave him in there for observation? He has a decent size established reef tank waiting for him with other fish and plenty of space to roam.
- Any other signs to look for? I am concerned that he's gotten worse because he's alone and if that the major issue I'm probably doing more damage to him leaving him in QT at this point right?

If you've dipped him in Fenbendazole and didn't find any flukes (sesame seed looking things) come off, and you don't see any redness, sores, "sloughing skin", or spots or other issues I agree, I'd just add it to the tank and see what happens.

The reason I ask about redness and sores is you covered your based on your treatments you should have covered flukes, ich, and velvet. Uronema and Brook remain. Both are treated with metroplex.

If you wanted to be even more safe, you could treat in metroplex for 14 days and then IMO you've covered your bases 100% unless you've made an error somewhere. A wrasse isn't likely to show symptoms of brook, but is perfectly capable of passing it to other fish in the display tank. I call them the best "typhoid marys" as a result.

 

[ReefWithCare]

If you've dipped him in Fenbendazole and didn't find any flukes (sesame seed looking things) come off, and you don't see any redness, sores, "sloughing skin", or spots or other issues I agree, I'd just add it to the tank and see what happens.

The reason I ask about redness and sores is you covered your based on your treatments you should have covered flukes, ich, and velvet. Uronema and Brook remain. Both are treated with metroplex.

If you wanted to be even more safe, you could treat in metroplex for 14 days and then IMO you've covered your bases 100% unless you've made an error somewhere. A wrasse isn't likely to show symptoms of brook, but is perfectly capable of passing it to other fish in the display tank. I call them the best "typhoid marys" as a result.

Hmm --- I don't really feel Uronema or Brook would be a concern given all the protocols I've been through and time. Can a wrasse really carry those two deadly diseases for over 3 months? All the fish in the reef tank right now are all pretty hardy fish (two azure damsels and a orchid dotty). Those three fish were in a separate QT. The wrasse was with a rabbitfish, a pair of clowns, and a tang.

He was feed metro dosed food in QT. You are referring to dosing it directly in the water right?

The only bumps I've seen on him have been on the mouth from frequently smacking his face on the glass. It goes away after a few days then pops up again when he smacks his face on the glass a few days later. The QT is unfortunately in a high traffic area and my kids tend to scare the crap out of him when they run around the hallway.

 

[4FordFamily]

Hmm --- I don't really feel Uronema or Brook would be a concern given all the protocols I've been through and time. Can a wrasse really carry those two deadly diseases for over 3 months? All the fish in the reef tank right now are all pretty hardy fish (two azure damsels and a orchid dotty). Those three fish were in a separate QT. The wrasse was with a rabbitfish, a pair of clowns, and a tang.

He was feed metro dosed food in QT. You are referring to dosing it directly in the water right?

The only bumps I've seen on him have been on the mouth from frequently smacking his face on the glass. It goes away after a few days then pops up again when he smacks his face on the glass a few days later. The QT is unfortunately in a high traffic area and my kids tend to scare the crap out of him when they run around the hallway.

Wrasse are unlikely to display symptoms of brook but are more than capable of carrying it. Uronema largely the same, a healthy fish in general IMO isn't likely to show symptoms or be marginally impacted by it. All of my fish go through a protocol that includes metro with copper for 14 days. Feeding metro treats the internal component of uronema but without it also in the water column for the same time period, it would likely be ineffective at treating it.

Uronema has the propensity to be the most devastating fish parasite of all. The difference is the species in question and the health of the specimens. For instance, I’ve never seen uronema in a tang, even if every fish in the QT is quickly dropping like flies.

Up to you, I am very cautious, perhaps overly so.

 

[ReefWithCare]

Okay - I just fed him when I got home. He ate like a champ. He’s still doing the weird twitching movement. It’s always towards his reflection though. This QT has no paint on the back or bottom like my other one.

 

[ReefWithCare]

Okay - I just fed him when I got home. He ate like a champ. He’s still doing the weird twitching movement. It’s always towards his reflection though. This QT has no paint on the back or bottom like my other one.

Newest video:

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Newest video:

I’m 99% sure it’s to his reflection. If you are having serious doubt get a cup of sand and spread it thinly on the bottom. Wrasses are weird but awesome creatures.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

I would add him to my DT