Struggling to keep Phosphates and Nitrates under Control

kaijor · Sep 8, 2023

I'm currently running a 32 Biocube.

Here is livestock:
1 Clownfish (going to be getting a female soon)
1 Snowflake Eel

Parameters:
Nitrates 34.6 PPM
PH 8.1
Phosphate: 0.49 PPM

I'm trying to get phosphates down to 0.003 at least. I've added a refugium recently so I think that'll help. I've had it for about 2 weeks. I'm hoping it'll lower the nutrients in a tank a bit.

From my own reflection of my tank, I think there are two areas where I think I can improve. One is quality of saltwater and the other is chemical filtration.

As for the quality of my saltwater, I'm going to try to go to a different LPS see if their saltwater is better this weekend. The old one I was going to had TDS over 90 which I don't think really is the type of quality of water I'm looking for. Worst case, I'll just use my own system of RODI.

My real question relates to chemical filtration though. So far, I'm using GFO (8 TBS) and ROX 0.8 (3.2 TBS). Is this enough? I was also thinking of using chemipure elite as well. Are other chemical filtration options that I can add that might lead to some success with lower my phosphates and nitrates?

KrisReef · Sep 8, 2023

First, check your units. Reporting "0.900" doesnt tell the whole story until you add units (PPB. PPM, etc)

Next, fishes don't like dirty water but these parameters are not that critical for fishes. Do water changes to keep the saltwater salty! Add an ATO if you want to keep it stable.

If your goal is to keep corals then you may need to reduce Phosphate closer to 0.100, but the fishes are not in danger, imo.
Same for nitrate. a regular water change or two is going to help more than GFO.

SInce I think you may disagree with what I wrote, I'm going to suggest purchasing Elimi-phos Rapid by Tropic Marin. It will give you the tool to make targeted reductions for future parameter chasing. Nitrates are still a water change thing until your tank matures and strats eating NO3 by itself. When the latter occurs you will/may have to start dosing NO3 and using a product like Elimi-phos will help with that process down the road.

Don't sweat nutrients and "chase numbers" because in artificial reefs there is no concensus what perfect numbers are actually, but only what they look like.

Sorry if I sound mean,

Garf · Sep 8, 2023

kaijor said:
I'll just use my own system of RODI.

Sounds like a good plan

Are the levels of nitrate and phosphate you report actually causing you a problem?

kaijor · Sep 8, 2023

KrisReef said:
First, check your units. Reporting "0.900" doesnt tell the whole story until you add units (PPB. PPM, etc)

Next, fishes don't like dirty water but these parameters are not that critical for fishes. Do water changes to keep the saltwater salty! Add an ATO if you want to keep it stable.

If your goal is to keep corals then you may need to reduce Phosphate closer to 0.100, but the fishes are not in danger, imo.
Same for nitrate. a regular water change or two is going to help more than GFO.

SInce I think you may disagree with what I wrote, I'm going to suggest purchasing Elimi-phos Rapid by Tropic Marin. It will give you the tool to make targeted reductions for future parameter chasing. Nitrates are still a water change thing until your tank matures and strats eating NO3 by itself. When the latter occurs you will/may have to start dosing NO3 and using a product like Elimi-phos will help with that process down the road.

Don't sweat nutrients and "chase numbers" because in artificial reefs there is no concensus what perfect numbers are actually, but only what they look like.

Sorry if I sound mean,

Thanks, I'll take a look at the product that you recommended. I appreciate your assistance. And didn't think you sounded mean at all.

kaijor · Sep 8, 2023

Garf said:
Sounds like a good plan

Are the levels of nitrate and phosphate you report actually causing you a problem?

Well, my calcium and magnesium are pretty good.

My calcium is at 543 PPM and my magnesium are around 1300 PPM. What other parameters or other things should I look for? Because you are 100% right I might not be looking at the correct thing at the moment.

Stevorino · Sep 8, 2023

Good stuff in here already, but I'll add that with that size tank I think it's most effective and affordable in the long-run to just do heavy water changes.

A water reservoir and a 200 gallon box of salt would get you 50% monthly water changes for the whole year!

Garf · Sep 8, 2023

kaijor said:
Well, my calcium and magnesium are pretty good.

My calcium is at 543 PPM and my magnesium are around 1300 PPM. What other parameters or other things should I look for? Because you are 100% right I might not be looking at the correct thing at the moment.

What salt are you using? Is calcium supposed to mix up that high? If not, why is it up there?

kaijor · Sep 8, 2023

Garf said:
What salt are you using? Is calcium supposed to mix up that high? If not, why is it up there?

It's a good point. At the moment, I'm using my LPS' saltwater, not my own. I am going to switch to a different LPS to see if the TDS is lower as the one that they use is quite high (>100). At some point, I'm going to be mixing my own again, but I need to get set-up in my apartment. I'm thinking that the high calcium could be the reason why alkalinity is only 7.1.

FlyinAg · Sep 9, 2023

If your nitrates and phosphates aren't causing problems, then don't chase them with chemicals, you can make it worse. When you get corals they will want some N and P, and bottoming N and P have anecdotally shown to destabilize the tank and allow algae infestation.

You have a light bioload. What are you feeding? What rocks and sand do you use? You need to ID the source of the P as well. Have you tested the RO? What test kit are you using for that as they are not all created equal? I was using some that was bad recently and had to switch sources too.

Like others have said start with water changes to help get numbers down. If you get your own RO system, buy a quality salt and mix your own saltwater so you know what you are getting.

Also, just my opinion from recent experience, I would skip the female clown if you want to keep any other peaceful fish. A pair of clowns can be a real PITA. I hate mine, and so do the rest of their tank mates.

kaijor · Sep 9, 2023

FlyinAg said:
If your nitrates and phosphates aren't causing problems, then don't chase them with chemicals, you can make it worse. When you get corals they will want some N and P, and bottoming N and P have anecdotally shown to destabilize the tank and allow algae infestation.

You have a light bioload. What are you feeding? What rocks and sand do you use? You need to ID the source of the P as well. Have you tested the RO? What test kit are you using for that as they are not all created equal? I was using some that was bad recently and had to switch sources too.

Like others have said start with water changes to help get numbers down. If you get your own RO system, buy a quality salt and mix your own saltwater so you know what you are getting.

Also, just my opinion from recent experience, I would skip the female clown if you want to keep any other peaceful fish. A pair of clowns can be a real PITA. I hate mine, and so do the rest of their tank mates.

Do you mean testing the RO for nitrates and phosphates prior to it going into the tank? I haven’t done that yet. I’ll do that this weekend for sure. As for tests, I have the Hanna test kits. Are there better ones that I should look into?

I’ll keep that in mind about the clownfish for sure. Thanks for your help on this.

FlyinAg · Sep 9, 2023

Yes, test the RO. The RO I was getting from a home run fish business was growing crap in it. Red flag! Tested it and it had high nutrients!

Hannah is great. Only complaints I have heard for their stuff are against the calcium testers.

Uncle99 · Sep 9, 2023

kaijor said:
I'm currently running a 32 Biocube.

Here is livestock:
1 Clownfish (going to be getting a female soon)
1 Snowflake Eel

Parameters:
Nitrates 34.6 PPM
PH 8.1
Phosphate: 0.49 PPM

I'm trying to get phosphates down to 0.003 at least. I've added a refugium recently so I think that'll help. I've had it for about 2 weeks. I'm hoping it'll lower the nutrients in a tank a bit.

From my own reflection of my tank, I think there are two areas where I think I can improve. One is quality of saltwater and the other is chemical filtration.

As for the quality of my saltwater, I'm going to try to go to a different LPS see if their saltwater is better this weekend. The old one I was going to had TDS over 90 which I don't think really is the type of quality of water I'm looking for. Worst case, I'll just use my own system of RODI.

My real question relates to chemical filtration though. So far, I'm using GFO (8 TBS) and ROX 0.8 (3.2 TBS). Is this enough? I was also thinking of using chemipure elite as well. Are other chemical filtration options that I can add that might lead to some success with lower my phosphates and nitrates?

Phosphate at 0.003 would be a very bad number to maintain and doubt you can even test for that amount.

I think your looking for say maybe 0.1ppm which might be hard to get to with an eel.

kaijor · Sep 9, 2023

FlyinAg said:
Yes, test the RO. The RO I was getting from a home run fish business was growing crap in it. Red flag! Tested it and it had high nutrients!

Hannah is great. Only complaints I have heard for their stuff are against the calcium testers.

Is there a better calcium tester that you use?

kaijor · Sep 9, 2023

Uncle99 said:
Phosphate at 0.003 would be a very bad number to maintain and doubt you can even test for that amount.

I think you’re looking for say maybe 0.1ppm which might be hard to get to with an eel.

You are probably right on that. I’m thinking that .2 or 0.15 might be more feasible for me.

FlyinAg · Sep 9, 2023

kaijor said:
Is there a better calcium tester that you use?

I have the Salifert kit. Red Sea is similar. They are both titration style tests.

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Sep 9, 2023

Your nitrate and phosphate levels look perfect...

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Sep 9, 2023

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal said:
Your nitrate and phosphate levels look perfect...

Wait- do you even have any coral?
If not, and if there's no algae issue, there's REALLY no reason to mess specifically with your nutrients.

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Sep 9, 2023

kaijor said:
I am going to switch to a different LPS to see if the TDS is lower as the one that they use is quite high (>100).

Assuming this is RODI water you're testing? You don't measure the TDS of saltwater.

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Sep 9, 2023

kaijor said:
I'm currently running a 32 Biocube.

Here is livestock:
1 Clownfish (going to be getting a female soon)
1 Snowflake Eel

Parameters:
Nitrates 34.6 PPM
PH 8.1
Phosphate: 0.49 PPM

I'm trying to get phosphates down to 0.003 at least. I've added a refugium recently so I think that'll help. I've had it for about 2 weeks. I'm hoping it'll lower the nutrients in a tank a bit.

From my own reflection of my tank, I think there are two areas where I think I can improve. One is quality of saltwater and the other is chemical filtration.

As for the quality of my saltwater, I'm going to try to go to a different LPS see if their saltwater is better this weekend. The old one I was going to had TDS over 90 which I don't think really is the type of quality of water I'm looking for. Worst case, I'll just use my own system of RODI.

My real question relates to chemical filtration though. So far, I'm using GFO (8 TBS) and ROX 0.8 (3.2 TBS). Is this enough? I was also thinking of using chemipure elite as well. Are other chemical filtration options that I can add that might lead to some success with lower my phosphates and nitrates?

How long has this tank been set up? From what you've posted in this thread, you seem to have some vague ideas about "good" levels of some things (nitrate, phosphate, TDS), but it's unclear if there's really anything wrong with your water. As others have said, in a small tank, especially one with no coral, water changes are usually sufficient to maintain good water quality. No need to even test for magnesium/calcium if all you have in the tank is a clown and an eel.

Just trying to understand what help you really need, if any.