Stupid idea

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elysics

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So, this is probably more an academic exercise rather than an actual plan, and i'm mostly looking for why this is stupid/won't work/noone has done before:

A cyanobacteria reactor. The idea would be to have a reactor with a long if not permanent photoperiod, an airstone somewhere to provide extra dissolved nitrogen gas, and some way to extract the hopefully accumulating goop.

This was inspired by the observation that cyanobacteria often appears in low nitrate high phosphate situations, and the claim that cyanos can utilize atmospheric nitrogen instead of nitrate. The (mostly theoretical) goal would be to use this in a reef system that has those low nitrate and high phosphate parameters to create a perfect growth environment for the bacteria in the hopes that they outcompete cyanos in the display tank and can maybe even be used to export phosphate.

Granted, this is not my field at all and i have not taken a deep (or even shallow really) dive into literature on this, so theres probably very simple reason this won't work.

Now tell me why im a dangerous lunatic and need to be locked away;Wacky
 

Auquanut

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You mean you're not already locked up!? ;) Seriously though, if there's already cyano in the DT, it wouldn't hurt to try. I would think you would want very low flow through the reactor.

Here's a question that just came to mind: With all of the refugiums out there with extended photoperiods and situated in the sump downstream from the skimmer, (high dissolved nitrogen gas) why don't we see any posts about cyano problems in fuges?:confused:
 
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elysics

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Here's a question that just came to mind: With all of the refugiums out there with extended photoperiods and situated in the sump downstream from the skimmer, (high dissolved nitrogen gas) why don't we see any posts about cyano problems in fuges?:confused:
Thats a good point. After a quick google search, there actually are a few people that got cyano outbreaks in their refugiums, and it seems to have been related to too low flow. Someone even mentioned people doing basically my idea but in a refugium instead of a reactor, but that was a very old forum post and apart from that second hand mention i haven't found more on that yet.
 

tvan

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So, does it really have to work? Wouldn't a German name scare the cyano away? Seriously input into reactor, slow drip output to a drain.
 
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elysics

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I mean ive got the german name and "designed in germany" covered, and apparently at least some people in various forum posts noticed a lack of cyanos in the display despite a massive bloom in the refugium so at least that first part seems plausible. But whether it can control phosphate i have no idea, those second hand mentioned people that did it on purpose in their refugium are eluding me so far.
 

Fourstars

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Started drinking pretty early this morning? It really is an interesting idea but how would you limit its growth to just the reactor? Although I have noticed that if you leave it alone it seems to be happy in those Cyano zones in the tank. low nitrate tank is easy enough to manage but how would you create a high phosphate environment In the reactor?
 

tvan

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Drip output to a drain. Reactor out competes DT and sump. Drip is the direction of flow.. Wait this isn't my idea!
 
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elysics

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Started drinking pretty early this morning? It really is an interesting idea but how would you limit its growth to just the reactor? Although I have noticed that if you leave it alone it seems to be happy in those Cyano zones in the tank. low nitrate tank is easy enough to manage but how would you create a high phosphate environment In the reactor?
From what ive seen, multiple people across multiple forums have noticed that it stays out of the dt until they try to remove it from their refugium by increasing flow. And im not trying to create a high phosphate environment lol, but remedy one.

Ive found a few papers that go in this direction, sadly mostly for super high levels for waste water treatment. Ive found one for a freshwater fishtank with free floating cyanos that conveniently achieves 0.03, but thats not as easy as just having continuous flow through the reactor.

Right now I have setup a hangon with extremely low flow, some plastic mesh, a little bit of cyano, a desk lamp and some air, lets see if the cyano likes it.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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My concern would be the constant stream of bits and chunks of cyano seeding the remainder of the system, and the fact that conditions for growth in the display tank will also be suitable if they are in this reactor.

I'm not sure how much (if any) nitrogen fixation (N2 use) cyano do in reef tanks with available nitrate and ammonia.
 
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elysics

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Thats a fair point about potential risk to the rest of the system, and pretty much the only reason i decided to try it out in a small format so willy nilly in my system is the fact that i was able to just grab a random piece of cyano from the front of my display. My cyano patches in the display are in the process of receding, if it gets worse again, ill stop this.

My idea was that the difference in growth conditions would be achieved by flow mostly, but also photoperiod. And the many reports i found of a complete absence of cyanos in display tanks with simultanous huge outbreaks in refugiums.

The part about the N2 supply was just bouncing ideas off the wall, probably unneccesary, the thought process was that in an actual reactor instead of my hangon right now, densely filled with cyano, with very slow flow/throughput, it might actually become nitrogen limited, since the concept was use in low nitrate high phosphate situations to begin with. Or something else will limit growth first, no idea.
 

andrewey

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You're a crazy person! ;)

But really, you've got nothing to lose and I'm excited to see what happens. Either this will be a fun Covid project or this is how discoveries are made! All we all slightly pessimistic about this working? Sure. Would we be ecstatic if it worked? ABSOLUTELY!

Remember, someone came up with the idea of growing hair algae to reduce nutrients and we see how that turned out :)
 

tehmadreefer

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So, this is probably more an academic exercise rather than an actual plan, and i'm mostly looking for why this is stupid/won't work/noone has done before:

A cyanobacteria reactor. The idea would be to have a reactor with a long if not permanent photoperiod, an airstone somewhere to provide extra dissolved nitrogen gas, and some way to extract the hopefully accumulating goop.

This was inspired by the observation that cyanobacteria often appears in low nitrate high phosphate situations, and the claim that cyanos can utilize atmospheric nitrogen instead of nitrate. The (mostly theoretical) goal would be to use this in a reef system that has those low nitrate and high phosphate parameters to create a perfect growth environment for the bacteria in the hopes that they outcompete cyanos in the display tank and can maybe even be used to export phosphate.

Granted, this is not my field at all and i have not taken a deep (or even shallow really) dive into literature on this, so theres probably very simple reason this won't work.

Now tell me why im a dangerous lunatic and need to be locked away;Wacky
Because cyano appears in higher and lower phos conditions as well as in low total nutrients and higher total nutrients.
I’m actually growing a cyano “field” in my fuge, yet you won’t find a Spec in my actual DT. My po4 stays at .1-.15 and trates are usually over 20.
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tehmadreefer

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You mean you're not already locked up!? ;) Seriously though, if there's already cyano in the DT, it wouldn't hurt to try. I would think you would want very low flow through the reactor.

Here's a question that just came to mind: With all of the refugiums out there with extended photoperiods and situated in the sump downstream from the skimmer, (high dissolved nitrogen gas) why don't we see any posts about cyano problems in fuges?:confused:
I grow cyano and gha purposely in my fuge AND limit it to one specific area!
 
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