Success Rate with New Fish

[ivanlm78]

I haven't lost a new fish in years.... sometimes the fish is just not strong enough to survive, but I fully expect 99% success.

Your tank is relatively small for the fish choices (only 65 gallons with 2 tangs?), and also including some very aggressive fish in that tank. The fish choices are poor, in my own opinion, and if you have minimal rock work it will compound the fishes stress even more. Just my 2 cents.

What fishes would you recommend? I know clown fish and tangs are aggressive, how about the wrasses? than the mandarin fish? I had no idea Damselfish was aggressive to be honest

I think I;ve been getting very bad advice from my local shop as I always ask for compatibility, I never dont ask. I am aware the size may be an influence in acclimatising, need to re-think my choices. Perhaps stick to aggressive types?

Would you recommended any for my tank size?

15-20 minutes would not be enough time IMM to bring fish upwards in salinity more than .001, maybe .002.

So, what I do is first check the salinity in the bag.
In many cases, fish are kept in 1.018-1.020. If they going into a reef setting, say 1.025-1.026, I only raise salinity .002 per 12 hours. This allows time for fish to adjust their processes to the new salinity. So, in real low salinity, maybe 2 days. Temp must be maintained through that period.

If salinity in the bag is the same, or higher than your DT, then only temp must be matched with a 20 minute floating.

Some fish recover faster than others.

Hiding (or resting as I call it) can be a sign of an increase in salinity, and can be hard on fish.

Salinity is the same in my local aquarium shop, I do acclimatise with temperature though.

 

[Jungle Blue]

I currently have 33 fish and still plan on adding a bit more fish to my 150g all thanks to GPT dealing with my constant:
"tell me all about ___(fish____"
Tell GPT my current stock list.
"will it play nice with my current stock?"
(if not)
"what other fish would be similar or better?"
Make better choices.
Saves me so much headache and loving how active they roam in the display

Edit/add: Whenever I do a haul, I list the incoming fish and ask:
"in what order should introduce them into my display?"
Pretty good success so far. Only had 2 fish that didn't make it due to DOAs.

 

[BryanM]

What fishes would you recommend? I know clown fish and tangs are aggressive, how about the wrasses? than the mandarin fish? I had no idea Damselfish was aggressive to be honest

I think I;ve been getting very bad advice from my local shop as I always ask for compatibility, I never dont ask. I am aware the size may be an influence in acclimatising, need to re-think my choices. Perhaps stick to aggressive types?

Would you recommended any for my tank size?

Salinity is the same in my local aquarium shop, I do acclimatise with temperature though.

A lot of LFSes just sell you what you want, they want the money... Some are good, but many just want the sale.

I look up fish on LIveAquaria, pretty easy to see proper tank size, if they are reef safe or not, etc.

You do not have enough rock in that tank to support several fish. Fish need swim lanes and hiding places.... IMO you need at least double what you have, and that still might not be enough.

And you're very limited on the types of fish with a smaller tank. People do buy fish that will outgrow their tanks, I'm not a fan of this, but people do it...

 

[ivanlm78]

A lot of LFSes just sell you what you want, they want the money... Some are good, but many just want the sale.

I look up fish on LIveAquaria, pretty easy to see proper tank size, if they are reef safe or not, etc.

You do not have enough rock in that tank to support several fish. Fish need swim lanes and hiding places.... IMO you need at least double what you have, and that still might not be enough.

And you're very limited on the types of fish with a smaller tank. People do buy fish that will outgrow their tanks, I'm not a fan of this, but people do it...

Thanks Bryan

 

[littlefoxx]

Yeah its the kind of fish you add. Clown tangs are nasty, but really dont do well in most tanks. Two yellow tangs is a problem in that size, especially when they get older. Tangs can be ich magnets when stressed, that leads to parasites in other fish. If I were you I would rehome both yellows. A good fish list for you would be clown fish (only a pair), a goby, a blenny, smaller wrasse (like the possum you have) and for a centerpiece fish maybe a dwarf angel added last. Its all about compatibility with other fish and space. Dont mix aggressive and non aggressive fish!

Example: my tank (300 gallons) is a predator/aggressive setup, so I stock fish accordingly. Eels, grouper, more aggressive tangs, trigger fish.

You would want a more peaceful fish in your size tank like the ones I listed! As said, live aquaria is really good for basic fish info (just dont buy fish from them!!!). Also asking here which fish would fit will get you father than a LFS, they will tell you whatever you want to hear to make that sale unfortunately, which I think youve seen with your fish loss. What kind of fish do you like?? That way we can help tell you which are good and why, and which are not good and why!

 

[Should I]

so asked chatgpt to make you a stocking list heres what it give me

Fish Stocking (Reef-Safe)​

Aim for 6–10 small to medium fish depending on bioload & filtration:

Showpiece Fish (1-2 Max)​

• Midas Blenny – active, colorful, great personality
• Flame Angel (with caution) – semi-reef safe, may nip at LPS
• Royal Gramma – vivid colors, peaceful

Schooling / Peaceful Fish​

• Clownfish pair (Ocellaris or Percula) – reef staples
• Green Chromis (3–5) – schooling, peaceful
• Bangaii Cardinalfish (2–3) – elegant and reef-friendly

Utility Fish​

• Tailspot Blenny or Lawnmower Blenny – algae control
• Cleaner Goby or Neon Goby – helpful with parasite control
• Firefish – peaceful and colorful

 

[littlefoxx]

so asked chatgpt to make you a stocking list heres what it give me

Fish Stocking (Reef-Safe)​

Aim for 6–10 small to medium fish depending on bioload & filtration:

Showpiece Fish (1-2 Max)​

• Midas Blenny – active, colorful, great personality
• Flame Angel (with caution) – semi-reef safe, may nip at LPS
• Royal Gramma – vivid colors, peaceful

Schooling / Peaceful Fish​

• Clownfish pair (Ocellaris or Percula) – reef staples
• Green Chromis (3–5) – schooling, peaceful
• Bangaii Cardinalfish (2–3) – elegant and reef-friendly

Utility Fish​

• Tailspot Blenny or Lawnmower Blenny – algae control
• Cleaner Goby or Neon Goby – helpful with parasite control
• Firefish – peaceful and colorful

Ehhh I dont think the AI got that right clowns and chomis are not peaceful! Firefish are so shy that they need other shy fish! I also really distrust anything AI creates….

 

[Should I]

Ehhh I dont think the AI got that right clowns and chomis are not peaceful! Firefish are so shy that they need other shy fish! I also really distrust anything AI creates….

i know basslets are very shy i have had a rubre and a candy i added a firefish with the candy and it seemed bold it actually got my candy out of hiding heres the candy that i had

 

[jmcdona6]

Regardless of whether you quarantine or not (highly recommended BTW), I do not think your rate of mortality for a dunk and pray method is crazy high. Fact of the matter is, by the time you get the fish from your LFS it has a very high chance of being malnourished, diseased and exceptionally stressed. Depending on the fish and your system, these can be hard hurdles to overcome. It is higher than it needs to be though.

What I advocate for and has personally decreased my rate of mortality is the use of acclimation boxes for at least the first several days in your tank. Especially for small and/or sensitive fish. An acclimation box prevents the fish from darting to the rocks never to be seen again. Allows you to target feed and ensure it is receptive and eating the foods you are introducing. It allows them to chill out without being chased or blown around. It allows you to observe for any obvious medical issues. I've never lost a fish that I accriminated in a box before introducing to the open tank. It hurts me when I get a large fish or group of fish that are not suited to an acclimation box because I know it is always a gamble just releasing them.

Elliot at Marine Collectors advocates for this method as well.

 

[littlefoxx]

i know basslets are very shy i have had a rubre and a candy i added a firefish with the candy and it seemed bold it actually got my candy out of hiding heres the candy that i had

Awe beautiful fish!

 

[viceversabrd]

Thank you. What di you mean by fresh tank? do you keep two qt tanks?

I read about starvation as one of the reasons they die, I can tell that is the case of the last 3 deaths. So if I read correctly, you are saying that a qt tank gives them a safe oace for them to relax and be more likely to eat?
Do you medicate all new fish in the qt tanks? or keep an eye and decide after a few days?

tx

Correct I have two identical 10 gal tanks minimum 10 feet apart (to prevent aerosolization) . Small filter heater and airstone/air pump for each separate basters nets etc . I just assume that once a fish hits LFS waters it’s infected and medicate everybody it’s the only way to be 100% safe. It’s sort of like using condoms you don’t pick and choose if you want be safe, ya know I swap out of chloroquine tank at 14 days because killed all living bad guys but eggs are probably still in tank so you get fish out of there before they hatch, it’s the hybrid TTM if you look it up. And yes on the eating part, I think it’s easier for fish to relax in an empty tank. To get them eating you may want to try live baby brine shrimp super easy to hatch/culture and are like cat nip.

 

[BryanM]

Yeah its the kind of fish you add. Clown tangs are nasty, but really dont do well in most tanks. Two yellow tangs is a problem in that size, especially when they get older. Tangs can be ich magnets when stressed, that leads to parasites in other fish. If I were you I would rehome both yellows. A good fish list for you would be clown fish (only a pair), a goby, a blenny, smaller wrasse (like the possum you have) and for a centerpiece fish maybe a dwarf angel added last. Its all about compatibility with other fish and space. Dont mix aggressive and non aggressive fish!

Example: my tank (300 gallons) is a predator/aggressive setup, so I stock fish accordingly. Eels, grouper, more aggressive tangs, trigger fish.

You would want a more peaceful fish in your size tank like the ones I listed! As said, live aquaria is really good for basic fish info (just dont buy fish from them!!!). Also asking here which fish would fit will get you father than a LFS, they will tell you whatever you want to hear to make that sale unfortunately, which I think youve seen with your fish loss. What kind of fish do you like?? That way we can help tell you which are good and why, and which are not good and why!

I need a webcam link for your tank so I can live vicariously through it. I really would have liked an eel and a trigger (and your new grouper!), but I have the more peaceful counterpart to it :)

 

[littlefoxx]

I need a webcam link for your tank so I can live vicariously through it. I really would have liked an eel and a trigger (and your new grouper!), but I have the more peaceful counterpart to it :)

Lol I need a webcam for it so I can watch them when Im not home! I love how they all interact!

 

[ivanlm78]

so asked chatgpt to make you a stocking list heres what it give me

Fish Stocking (Reef-Safe)​

Aim for 6–10 small to medium fish depending on bioload & filtration:

Showpiece Fish (1-2 Max)​

• Midas Blenny – active, colorful, great personality
• Flame Angel (with caution) – semi-reef safe, may nip at LPS
• Royal Gramma – vivid colors, peaceful

Schooling / Peaceful Fish​

• Clownfish pair (Ocellaris or Percula) – reef staples
• Green Chromis (3–5) – schooling, peaceful
• Bangaii Cardinalfish (2–3) – elegant and reef-friendly

Utility Fish​

• Tailspot Blenny or Lawnmower Blenny – algae control
• Cleaner Goby or Neon Goby – helpful with parasite control
• Firefish – peaceful and colorful

Brilliant, thanks! I particuarly like the Flame Angel, Royal Gamma and Firefish

 

[ivanlm78]

Hi all,

An update on the tank situation. It turns out it was a parasite introduced in the last batch of fish I purchased two weeks ago.

It has wiped out all my fish stock (11 in total) except for a yellow tail Damselfish, which seems to be doing ok.

It was hard to detect at first as the first casualty did not present any superficial symptoms, it hide all the time and seemed to have died out of starvation within 2 days.

However, the days that followed all 5 of the 6 fish I had introduced (in two separate batches, 5 days apart) died:

1. A yellow wrasse and a yellow goby first, also no superficial symptoms, seemed to have died out of starvation, 3 days after introduced to the tank.
2. A Lyretail Anthias, this one started to present breathing issues, hanging out by the drain and swimming on the surface for 2 days before it died.
3. A bluestreak cleaner wrasse. This one last 1.5 weeks, seemed to be doing fine and getting along with everybody. Only showed signs of breathing issues the day before it died, as it was swimming on the surface all the time.
4. A mandarin dragonet. Its skin started to peel off, it looked like it got too soft and was being ripped out.

That was all my new stock, gone in the space of 10 days.

Then my old stock got infected, a clarki clownfish, presenting breathing problems but no skin issues.

A young clown tang, started to present breathing problems and developed black spots.

At that point I quickly realised this was a parasite issue and treated the tank with API ICK Super Cure as per the instructions and started the UV pump. It did not help, it was too late, both fish died and my Kole tang, as with the mandarin dragonet, its skin peeled off completed, and died yesterday.
And finally a clown wrasse, died last night. It's the only photo I have taken. It shows a very thin tummy and some black spots - very similar to the clown tang.

It is devastating, I feel very very irresponsible and will take the following measures:
1. Set up a QT as of tis week, to treat the remaining Damselfish. I will also QT all new fish for 2 weeks before introducing new stock. And I am also thinking to introduce them slowly through tank dividers, to mitigate stress.
2. Ich eradication: Will leave the tank with the 2 shrimps and snails I have for 11 weeks to ensure any parasite starves to death.
3. Choose my fish very carefully, only non-aggressive an suitable for the 75 gallon tank I have.
4. Create more rock structures for hiding space.
5. Never to introduce more than 2 fish at a time.

Lessons learnt:
1. Respect for the animal: This is a serious hobby, that requires patience, research and a bit (lots) of money. I'm either all in or out., and I have decided I am in.
2. Understand your local shop is to help but also sell. Take advice what the heck a grian of salt.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the very useful

 

[bluemon]

Hi all,

An update on the tank situation. It turns out it was a parasite introduced in the last batch of fish I purchased two weeks ago.

It has wiped out all my fish stock (11 in total) except for a yellow tail Damselfish, which seems to be doing ok.

It was hard to detect at first as the first casualty did not present any superficial symptoms, it hide all the time and seemed to have died out of starvation within 2 days.

However, the days that followed all 5 of the 6 fish I had introduced (in two separate batches, 5 days apart) died:

1. A yellow wrasse and a yellow goby first, also no superficial symptoms, seemed to have died out of starvation, 3 days after introduced to the tank.
2. A Lyretail Anthias, this one started to present breathing issues, hanging out by the drain and swimming on the surface for 2 days before it died.
3. A bluestreak cleaner wrasse. This one last 1.5 weeks, seemed to be doing fine and getting along with everybody. Only showed signs of breathing issues the day before it died, as it was swimming on the surface all the time.
4. A mandarin dragonet. Its skin started to peel off, it looked like it got too soft and was being ripped out.

That was all my new stock, gone in the space of 10 days.

Then my old stock got infected, a clarki clownfish, presenting breathing problems but no skin issues.

A young clown tang, started to present breathing problems and developed black spots.

At that point I quickly realised this was a parasite issue and treated the tank with API ICK Super Cure as per the instructions and started the UV pump. It did not help, it was too late, both fish died and my Kole tang, as with the mandarin dragonet, its skin peeled off completed, and died yesterday.
And finally a clown wrasse, died last night. It's the only photo I have taken. It shows a very thin tummy and some black spots - very similar to the clown tang.

It is devastating, I feel very very irresponsible and will take the following measures:
1. Set up a QT as of tis week, to treat the remaining Damselfish. I will also QT all new fish for 2 weeks before introducing new stock. And I am also thinking to introduce them slowly through tank dividers, to mitigate stress.
2. Ich eradication: Will leave the tank with the 2 shrimps and snails I have for 11 weeks to ensure any parasite starves to death.
3. Choose my fish very carefully, only non-aggressive an suitable for the 75 gallon tank I have.
4. Create more rock structures for hiding space.
5. Never to introduce more than 2 fish at a time.

Lessons learnt:
1. Respect for the animal: This is a serious hobby, that requires patience, research and a bit (lots) of money. I'm either all in or out., and I have decided I am in.
2. Understand your local shop is to help but also sell. Take advice what the heck a grian of salt.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the very useful

If you follow through with all that, you are a more responsible reefer than 50% people here. Kudos to you.

Also what you have pictured there is a red Coris wrasse which grows to be pretty big and not so peaceful. I would avoid that species

 

[Paul B]

Your death rate is very high but not for a 2 month old tank. That tank needs time to mature so the bacteria could grow. All new tanks are not very healthy.

I can't see your tank and don't know how you set it up but eventually you should hardly ever lose a fish. Fish deaths are almost always our fault, but we can't rush the maturity of the tank.

 

[JRP2099]

I'd agree with everyone who's saying that you're overstocking, especially when considering aggression. I'd also agree that you probably want to be quarantining. It's not that your fish are dying to disease, as I would suspect that ALL your fish would have died if you brought in something like velvet, but there are definitely benefits to quarantine. In quarantine, you have a low stress way of getting your fish to eat, where they're not getting bullied by their aggressive tankmates.

When you acclimate, do you try to match salinities? Your acclimation procedure may be a bit lacking, even for hardy fish. A poorly acclimated fish experiences additional stress in their new environment, gets bullied by aggressive, established tankmates, gets bullied away from food, gets weaker, etc. - quick doom spiral. My two cents based on your post.

I think, in order to boost your chances of success, bolster your acclimation procedure (vetteguy has a good one), quarantine your new additions, get them fat, then introduce them into your new tank in an acclimation box. People have a lot of success with those because it stems off that initial aggression that a new addition faces when added to an established tank.

I completely agree. When I started out I acclimated over 15 - 20m and lost one out of four at least. I now acclimate much more slowly with an inexpensive drip acclimation tube into a nice size box and I always use an acclimation box for at least 2 or 3 days. The less stress the better. Even using a net to transfer is stressful after a cross country UPS or Fedex trip. Scoop and slowly let free into your acclimation box. Havn't lost one since. All the rest of the input regarding tank size, types of fish, pairing with other fish, etc. while true over the longer term would rarely result in 1 - 2 day loss. It's all the stress of transport and too rapid acclimation.