Successfully Hypoed my 220 display.......so I thought.......

[Larry Schwenk]

I run a 220g mostly fish only tank with 220 lbs live rock. I say mostly as I do have a few Kenya's and Green star polyps. I ran the tank at 1.009 (with refractometer) and watched all spots drop off - it took almost 6 weeks. The reverse fox face was most stubborn and its black body provided a great barometer as to how the tank was doing. I waited 4 weeks before raising the salinity - slowly raised it back to 1.025 over a 2 week period with no signs of ich returning. Tank had a mini cycle and was fine again after another 4 weeks. I have had a 90g quarantine tank with 5 tangs - an Achilles, a Hippo, and 3 Yellows. They have been in quarantine - untreated - for 2 months with no signs of anything, let alone ich. I put the Achilles and the Hippo in the 220 and within 3 days they had multiple small spots presumably ich -( the smallest ich resembling spots I have seen.) I have removed the 2 fish and placed back in quarantine, this time they are all getting hypoed in quarantine. I show no ich on any other fish in display. Would you expect my 220 still has ich and all the other fish are now resistant or did the tangs have it all along?

Let me finish by saying I know I should have initially hypoed all fish in quarantine and let 220 fallow. Not an option as my stock in 220 is - Porcupine puffer (7in) / Adult Emperor Angel / Reverse Fox face (7in) / Raccoon Butterfly (5in) / Needle fin Butterfly (4in) / Coral Beauty / Naso Tang (6in) / Valentini Puffer / Cleaner wrasse. And stock in the 90 is the 5 tangs - Achilles / Hippo / 3 Yellows. I couldn't have quarantined all these in the 90g!

 

[Larry Schwenk]

Here is the battle plan - Tonight - I am going to move all rock and inverts to 90g. / Trash the sand bed / move all fish to 220g, making it a huge quarantine or hospital tank. Do hypo again - this time stay at 1.009 for 6-8 weeks. I am thinking this will eliminate all trophants in hypo as well as allow for a fallow on all the rocks in the other tank. Any thoughts?????

 

[Fishfinder]

If you are taking everything out I would go a different route than hypo. I'd do something more guaranteed

 

[Larry Schwenk]

I want to avoid copper in the 220 - it will be the display again. What else is more guaranteed?

 

[Brew12]

I want to avoid copper in the 220 - it will be the display again. What else is more guaranteed?

Unfortunately, there are some hypo resistant strains of Ich so even with all of that effort it might not work. It will slow down their reproduction rate but they could still be there ready to multiply again when you raise salinity back up.
You can use copper in the tank and safely use it as the display again if you want. The downside is the large water change or the amount of filters it will take to get the copper out. Copper wont leach out of the glass or silicon contrary to what some people may think. If you use sponge media for your biofilter you can throw that away when you are done pulling the copper.

Unfortunately, when you are dealing with a system that large, few options are easy.

 

[jinbing0905]

I have a the same problem

 

[jinbing0905]

Need help too

 

[Larry Schwenk]

Unfortunately, there are some hypo resistant strains of Ich so even with all of that effort it might not work. It will slow down their reproduction rate but they could still be there ready to multiply again when you raise salinity back up.
You can use copper in the tank and safely use it as the display again if you want. The downside is the large water change or the amount of filters it will take to get the copper out. Copper wont leach out of the glass or silicon contrary to what some people may think. If you use sponge media for your biofilter you can throw that away when you are done pulling the copper.

Unfortunately, when you are dealing with a system that large, few options are easy.

Only un-natural filter I use are 2 large filter socks in the sump......next sump chamber is a 10 inch, DC powered reef octopus......then the final chamber is a pump to the uv light and my dc return pump. This is all packed in live rock which will be coming out if I do go copper route.......you have me doubting my battle plan.
I still will fallow in the 90 by placing all rock and inverts in there........then copper treat the 220. I think this would be the fail safe method.
The crap is, I just went through Hypo on the 220.....didn't remove rocks or sand. Nothing showed ich for a month after salinity was back up for 4 weeks ....added Achilles and Hippo and boom, 3 days later ich on them only. Is it possible they were carriers all along as I did not treat them? I just observed no ich for 2 months in quarantine and added to display after hypo. If this is possible I may have caught them in time before they dropped any in the DT and DT is still clear? ugh!

 

[Fishfinder]

I would move everything and copper the DT

 

[Fishfinder]

Then change water and filter it out

 

[Humblefish]

I ran the tank at 1.009 (with refractometer) and watched all spots drop off - it took almost 6 weeks.

That last part (6 weeks) indicates there are five possibilities here:

1. You are dealing with a hypo resistant strain of ich.
2. Your refractometer is not perfectly calibrated (and thus the SG was not actually 1.009).
3. You didn't use an ATO, and the SG crept up past 1.009 during the process.
4. You are actually dealing with Marine Velvet Disease and hypo is just suppressing it.
   
5. You are seeing a non-parasite (such as Lympho) and thinking that it is ich.

 

[Larry Schwenk]

That last part (6 weeks) indicates there are five possibilities here:

1. You are dealing with a hypo resistant strain of ich.
2. Your refractometer is not perfectly calibrated (and thus the SG was not actually 1.009).
3. You didn't use an ATO, and the SG crept up past 1.009 during the process.
4. You are actually dealing with Marine Velvet Disease and hypo is just suppressing it.
   
5. You are seeing a non-parasite (such as Lympho) and thinking that it is ich.

I think #4 is a distinct possibility. The spots are smaller than the ones I was dealing with during hypo and covering the whole fish.
I have succumbed to cupramine in the 220 DT. It will take care of ich and or velvet. I am first going to remove the sand and rock and put in the 90g tank. I have way too many fish to put them all in the 90 and treat them in cramped quarters. I am going to dose all fish in the 220 at 1 drop per 10 gal to start....wait a week and if they improve run the 30 day course. If they do not improve after a week I can up the dose (full is 2 drops per G). Regular 6-8 week fallow period should clean up rock / sand in the 90. Any suggestions??

 

[Humblefish]

I think #4 is a distinct possibility. The spots are smaller than the ones I was dealing with during hypo and covering the whole fish.
I have succumbed to cupramine in the 220 DT. It will take care of ich and or velvet. I am first going to remove the sand and rock and put in the 90g tank. I have way too many fish to put them all in the 90 and treat them in cramped quarters. I am going to dose all fish in the 220 at 1 drop per 10 gal to start....wait a week and if they improve run the 30 day course. If they do not improve after a week I can up the dose (full is 2 drops per G). Regular 6-8 week fallow period should clean up rock / sand in the 90. Any suggestions??

If you are dealing with velvet, I highly suggest raising the Cu level to full therapeutic ASAP. Which is 0.5ppm for Cupramine. A Seachem or Salifert copper test kit is what you need to determine this, and then be prepared to deal with fluctuations (because of the rock) until the Cu level stabilizes.

 

[Larry Schwenk]

There will be no rocks in the tank being treated. I will start at full dose - thx.

 

[Brew12]

I think #4 is a distinct possibility. The spots are smaller than the ones I was dealing with during hypo and covering the whole fish.
I have succumbed to cupramine in the 220 DT. It will take care of ich and or velvet. I am first going to remove the sand and rock and put in the 90g tank. I have way too many fish to put them all in the 90 and treat them in cramped quarters. I am going to dose all fish in the 220 at 1 drop per 10 gal to start....wait a week and if they improve run the 30 day course. If they do not improve after a week I can up the dose (full is 2 drops per G). Regular 6-8 week fallow period should clean up rock / sand in the 90. Any suggestions??

PVC fittings to drop in the 220g to provide shelter for the fish to reduce stress.

Get sponges, filter floss, or something similar to put in a high flow area of your sump for the water to flow through. You need surface area for the nitrifying bacteria to attach to.

After those are in, dump a big bottle or 3 of Biospira into your tank to seed the filter media.

Good luck!

 

[Larry Schwenk]

PVC fittings to drop in the 220g to provide shelter for the fish to reduce stress.

Get sponges, filter floss, or something similar to put in a high flow area of your sump for the water to flow through. You need surface area for the nitrifying bacteria to attach to.

After those are in, dump a big bottle or 3 of Biospira into your tank to seed the filter media.

Good luck!

Thank you - I have everything you mentioned above......I use Smart Start as my Biospira and have had wicked success.

 

[melypr1985]

I agree with the possibility of velvet happening here. Great advice so far. Best of luck and keep us posted!

 

[Larry Schwenk]

Last night I moved all rocks and sand to my 90. With the ich outbreak I forgot I ordered a clean up crew for the 220, so it all went into the 90 also - this tank will now fallow for 8 weeks.
Looking closely at the fish last night I am convinced it is ich.....not velvet. Fish looked better before I started the break down.....had not spread, and some of the spots were larger - not dust like when I have encountered velvet in the past.
I put a bag of floss in the sock compartment of the sump and put in a bottle of Smart Start. The tank was clear by 10pm.
I added 225 drops of cupramine to the 220 this morning ( half dose ). I will up it to full dose tomorrow morning. Then repeat full dose at once in 48 hrs.......checking with copper test kit to get to .5ppm.
Sorry for crappy pic.......

 

[Humblefish]

Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[Empress]

It's ok to mix Biospira with copper??