T5 vs. LED strips as supplemental lighting???

[jbrady429]

Is there any difference between using T5 lights vs. LED strip lights (i.e. ReefBrite XHOs or Orphek OR series lights) as supplemental lighting to an LED fixture like the Kessil AP700 or EcoTech Radions? The goals would be the usual for supplemental lighting--reduced shadowing/more even coverage.

What do you think? Do T5s have an advantage over the LED strip lights, or does the (potentially) reduced cost of ownership of LEDs (no annual bulb replacements) win out?

 

[BoomCorals]

Supplemental to me means to improve overall performance. So that would mean adding T5 to LED. Adding more LED to LED wouldn’t really give you the added growth and color you’d get from adding T5.

 

[jbrady429]

Supplemental to me means to improve overall performance. So that would mean adding T5 to LED. Adding more LED to LED wouldn’t really give you the added growth and color you’d get from adding T5.

So what is it about T5s that is better than LEDs in this case? I'm not disputing your answer--I'm just looking to understand why one would work better than the other in this application.

 

[miPapareef]

I know when I added 4 T5 bulbs to my kessil AP700 setup the alk consumption went up by 20% and coralline algae started growing everywhere on every surface in the tank. Before it was only in the corners on plastics or shaded areas of the rocks. I’ve never tried the LED strips so can’t compare to that.

From the looks of the tank the light spectrum is blended more even point to point and the consistency of par at a specific point is better. With just the AP700 the PMK par reading would vary minute to minute more than it does now at the same location.

 

[Hentz]

From one I’ve noticed, is overall coverage.

Most LED’s aren’t going to give you the coverage like T5’s will, thus causing more shadowing and Corals not getting the light they require in various spots. T5’s give you that very balanced coverage of light, allowing a lot of places LED’s wouldn’t generally be able to reach. This is from my personal experiences.

By no means am I saying LED’s or T5’s are better. I’ve had equal success with both. But going back to T5’s with a MUCH more in-depth knowledge of Coral keeping, has created a lot of success for me. I’ve added a LED strip bar to help get that pop, which it did. Regardless of what people say, T5’s give a flat look and you won’t achieve that “pop” as you would with LED’s.

I’ve recently added a Kessil 360WE to my setup, only because it was sitting around. The added shimmer is absolutely amazing.

While my tank is slowly recovering from a crash, I’ve debated on trading out my ATI 6x54 for the AquaticLife T5 that allows LED’s in the middle and adding 1-2 more Kessil 360’s.

 

[goodefx]

From one I’ve noticed, is overall coverage.

Most LED’s aren’t going to give you the coverage like T5’s will, thus causing more shadowing and Corals not getting the light they require in various spots. T5’s give you that very balanced coverage of light, allowing a lot of places LED’s wouldn’t generally be able to reach. This is from my personal experiences.

By no means am I saying LED’s or T5’s are better. I’ve had equal success with both. But going back to T5’s with a MUCH more in-depth knowledge of Coral keeping, has created a lot of success for me. I’ve added a LED strip bar to help get that pop, which it did. Regardless of what people say, T5’s give a flat look and you won’t achieve that “pop” as you would with LED’s.

I’ve recently added a Kessil 360WE to my setup, only because it was sitting around. The added shimmer is absolutely amazing.

While my tank is slowly recovering from a crash, I’ve debated on trading out my ATI 6x54 for the AquaticLife T5 that allows LED’s in the middle and adding 1-2 more Kessil 360’s.

I have 3x chinese box lights, 2x T5s and 2x Reef brights, colors look amazing. But when I added the t5s are started to get cyno, and now I only run my t5s for about an hr at peak time.

 

[A. grandis]

Is there any difference between using T5 lights vs. LED strip lights (i.e. ReefBrite XHOs or Orphek OR series lights) as supplemental lighting to an LED fixture like the Kessil AP700 or EcoTech Radions? The goals would be the usual for supplemental lighting--reduced shadowing/more even coverage.

What do you think? Do T5s have an advantage over the LED strip lights, or does the (potentially) reduced cost of ownership of LEDs (no annual bulb replacements) win out?

Big time! Go T5s! You will probably ending up changing the whole thing for a nice T5 only fixture after you test it out.

 

[reefwiser]

T5's will do the hard work in a tank and LED's are more for our eyes than the corals health. People light tanks based on what we want to see and not what corals need.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The curious trend I see now is to add t5 to Lights that already are proven to grow corals.
The most common mistake I see(one of them) is that the primary Light , led in this case, is the top of the tank is getting 600-800 par from the primary and then. Adding some t5 that only add about 200 par to the top of the tank. By the time that gets to the bottom it’s 25 par or less.
I had a thread just recently where the it was the same supplemental question but the light was a 250 mh. That’s like a candle in the sun.
The second mistake is see in supplemental is ,kessil aside , most use these wacky color schedules in the led when the led at its 100% native spectrum ratio is designed to grow corals.

Shadowing fwiw , is not anything to do with spectrum or Light source.
It’s the physics of where the subject is under the light. The light is directly overhead to the Coral.si most of the front of the coral is dark. So adding a supplement slightly forward of the primary will light more of the face of the coral.
In photography we call that fill Light.
T5 and large MH reflectors there are rarely these problems becuse of this simple fact. It’s a large overhead source already and provides its own fill.

So if you have a row of say ap700 down the middle of the tank , depending on the aqua scape , yes you may have shadowing down the front of the rock.
If the ap is set to 100% , you add a t5 or two it probaly wont add much par spectrum wise , but maybe a taste of fill to the front. If you add an led strip in the same place , it’ll do more becuse most strips have the out put of 2-4 t5’s.

It’s these reasons I don’t prefer small emitter lamps over a tank.
If I did use kessil , I’d use 6-8 160s rather than two ap700 over somthing like a 180 gal tank.

 

[A. grandis]

Hi Salty! Always good to talk with you!!
I will put here my point of view.

The curious trend I see now is to add t5 to Lights that already are proven to grow corals.

The point is that LEDs are also proven to grow corals by now.
There are many LED only tanks with corals growing and not dying. Good colors too. We all see that.
So LEDs are proven to grow corals. I think is time for us to stop using such expression.
And those T12s and T8s back in the day would also grow corals.

The most common mistake I see(one of them) is that the primary Light , led in this case, is the top of the tank is getting 600-800 par from the primary and then. Adding some t5 that only add about 200 par to the top of the tank. By the time that gets to the bottom it’s 25 par or less.

IMHO there are 2 groups thinking differently now in regards to "primary light source".
One group thinks that the primary light source comes from the quality of light offered for growth and color.
The other group sees it as the PAR number coming for either light sources, as a comparison.
Many would consider T5s above the LEDs in terms of keeping the health and growth/colors of the corals because of the uniformity, spectrum blend and ability of reflection with multiple slots. Therefore, the more T5s over a shallow system (max.24") the healthier those corals would grow.

I had a thread just recently where the it was the same supplemental question but the light was a 250 mh. That’s like a candle in the sun.
The second mistake is see in supplemental is ,kessil aside , most use these wacky color schedules in the led when the led at its 100% native spectrum ratio is designed to grow corals.

The candle in the sun that you are talking about could be compared in a better fashion to the "spot light" (sun) and the "sky light".
The spectrum of each source blends with the shimmers and offer optimum light. When we use the T5s, as "sky light", it will really embrace the tank and the reflectors will give the punch to cover shadows in a more efficient way than LEDs, which are like beams (little spot lights). There is a big difference of light spread between LEDs and T5s.

Shadowing fwiw , is not anything to do with spectrum or Light source.

I disagree with that one. The light source has a huge influence in shadowing. Metal halides and T5s are offering the most ability for reflection when using the proper system for the aquarium. LEDs by nature, as a beam of light using only lenses, lose to the halides, as the other spot light type of light source. The reflection from from a good MH/T5 reflectors will distribute the light and re-reflect that light through the whole system in a much more efficient way than the LEDs. That is why so many people are beginning to see huge differences after adding T5s to their LEDs, changing all for T5s, or changing the whole system for MH/T5s.
There are other really important differences like the UV from the halides and the relatively constant spectrum offered from the halides. The LEDs aren't able to compete with that either. Not bashing, just exposing the facts, like Mr. Julio Del Aquila would.

It’s the physics of where the subject is under the light. The light is directly overhead to the Coral.si most of the front of the coral is dark. So adding a supplement slightly forward of the primary will light more of the face of the coral.
In photography we call that fill Light.

Well, the nature of LED will again prohibit such efficiency in reflection because the lens can't compete with good MH/T5 reflectors.
If you have an opportunity to talk to Dr. Sanjay Joshi he will explain that to you. He has that happening in his 500gal with the Radions and didn't happen as much with the halides. And he has lots of Radions as you may know...
In nature the reflection of light is very similar to a halides/T5s combo.

T5 and large MH reflectors there are rarely these problems becuse of this simple fact. It’s a large overhead source already and provides its own fill.

You got it, man!

So if you have a row of say ap700 down the middle of the tank , depending on the aqua scape , yes you may have shadowing down the front of the rock.
If the ap is set to 100% , you add a t5 or two it probaly wont add much par spectrum wise , but maybe a taste of fill to the front. If you add an led strip in the same place , it’ll do more becuse most strips have the out put of 2-4 t5’s.

That s why people see the difference of removing the LEDs and filling that precious space with the t5s to supply the PAR needs as a whole. If you have the LEDs and T5s you are simply allowing your visual taste to the satisfaction, not providing a uniform light (PAR and spectrum) to those corals. Some areas will get the LEDs and some other areas will have a tiny amount of the T5 supplementation. Those areas will still suffer because there isn't enough supply. When you add all T5s each individual reflector from each bulb will add to the punch and fill in with amazing uniformity. That should be the proper way to use T5 systems.
The number of bulbs, reflectors, bulb cooling for efficiency, bulb spectrum choices, and distance from water surface are IMHO very important and qualities of the T5 as a light source. All that will play with efficiency.

It’s these reasons I don’t prefer small emitter lamps over a tank.
If I did use kessil , I’d use 6-8 160s rather than two ap700 over somthing like a 180 gal tank.

Most LEDs in US should be considered "small emitter" over the tanks.
The pucks are a joke IMHO, with all the respect. And people still consider them as the "best lights available" just because of stores and PDF publication. Not to make anyone upset. Just facts.
Unless we have something like the LANI or a Phillips Coral Care that are considered the very best among most of the LED lovers. Those fixtures are better. They resemble the wonderful T5s.

This is the way I see. I believe many people are starting to understand the points and that's why more and more are finally coming to realize the amazing difference when they decide to change their LED for metal halides, T5s or both. There is an actual difference because of reflection and uniformity. Corals will respond and grow very similar to how they do in the ocean.

Again, I'm just trying to give my opinion here.
We all try to understand why things happen.
Would be so great to have people posting here their actual observations in coral growth and health comparing the 3 light sources.
The description and pictures of their results would tell us much more than this or any other post!!
Aloha.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Hi Salty! Always good to talk with you!!
I will put here my point of view.


The point is that LEDs are also proven to grow corals by now.
There are many LED only tanks with corals growing and not dying. Good colors too. We all see that.
So LEDs are proven to grow corals. I think is time for us to stop using such expression.
And those T12s and T8s back in the day would also grow corals.



IMHO there are 2 groups thinking differently now in regards to "primary light source".
One group thinks that the primary light source comes from the quality of light offered for growth and color.
The other group sees it as the PAR number coming for either light sources, as a comparison.
Many would consider T5s above the LEDs in terms of keeping the health and growth/colors of the corals because of the uniformity, spectrum blend and ability of reflection with multiple slots. Therefore, the more T5s over a shallow system (max.24") the healthier those corals would grow.



The candle in the sun that you are talking about could be compared in a better fashion to the "spot light" (sun) and the "sky light".
The spectrum of each source blends with the shimmers and offer optimum light. When we use the T5s, as "sky light", it will really embrace the tank and the reflectors will give the punch to cover shadows in a more efficient way than LEDs, which are like beams (little spot lights). There is a big difference of light spread between LEDs and T5s.



I disagree with that one. The light source has a huge influence in shadowing. Metal halides and T5s are offering the most ability for reflection when using the proper system for the aquarium. LEDs by nature, as a beam of light using only lenses, lose to the halides, as the other spot light type of light source. The reflection from from a good MH/T5 reflectors will distribute the light and re-reflect that light through the whole system in a much more efficient way than the LEDs. That is why so many people are beginning to see huge differences after adding T5s to their LEDs, changing all for T5s, or changing the whole system for MH/T5s.
There are other really important differences like the UV from the halides and the relatively constant spectrum offered from the halides. The LEDs aren't able to compete with that either. Not bashing, just exposing the facts, like Mr. Julio Del Aquila would.


Well, the nature of LED will again prohibit such efficiency in reflection because the lens can't compete with good MH/T5 reflectors.
If you have an opportunity to talk to Dr. Sanjay Joshi he will explain that to you. He has that happening in his 500gal with the Radions and didn't happen as much with the halides. And he has lots of Radions as you may know...
In nature the reflection of light is very similar to a halides/T5s combo.


You got it, man!



That s why people see the difference of removing the LEDs and filling that precious space with the t5s to supply the PAR needs as a whole. If you have the LEDs and T5s you are simply allowing your visual taste to the satisfaction, not providing a uniform light (PAR and spectrum) to those corals. Some areas will get the LEDs and some other areas will have a tiny amount of the T5 supplementation. Those areas will still suffer because there isn't enough supply. When you add all T5s each individual reflector from each bulb will add to the punch and fill in with amazing uniformity. That should be the proper way to use T5 systems.
The number of bulbs, reflectors, bulb cooling for efficiency, bulb spectrum choices, and distance from water surface are IMHO very important and qualities of the T5 as a light source. All that will play with efficiency.


Most LEDs in US should be considered "small emitter" over the tanks.
The pucks are a joke IMHO, with all the respect. And people still consider them as the "best lights available" just because of stores and PDF publication. Not to make anyone upset. Just facts.
Unless we have something like the LANI or a Phillips Coral Care that are considered the very best among most of the LED lovers. Those fixtures are better. They resemble the wonderful T5s.

This is the way I see. I believe many people are starting to understand the points and that's why more and more are finally coming to realize the amazing difference when they decide to change their LED for metal halides, T5s or both. There is an actual difference because of reflection and uniformity. Corals will respond and grow very similar to how they do in the ocean.

Again, I'm just trying to give my opinion here.
We all try to understand why things happen.
Would be so great to have people posting here their actual observations in coral growth and health comparing the 3 light sources.
The description and pictures of their results would tell us much more than this or any other post!!
Aloha.

Good to hear from you as well.

 

[TexasTodd]

Why aren't the "like the LANI or a Phillips Coral Care" offered in the U.S.?

 

[Bpb]

Why aren't the "like the LANI or a Phillips Coral Care" offered in the U.S.?

I’d guess the companies who produce them probably do not consider the margin to be profitable enough to seek out American distributors and retailers. Meaning either the company is too small (Lani, possibly, I know nothing about them), or too large (Philips, don’t want to dump additional resources into an essentially experimental product based on their normal manufacturing).

 

[Bpb]

So what is it about T5s that is better than LEDs in this case? I'm not disputing your answer--I'm just looking to understand why one would work better than the other in this application.

There have been lots of words in this thread. Some good ones too. Lengthy discussion. To sum it up and answer your question.

T5’s would work better because there would be more and different wavelengths produced than currently offered by the existing units, meaning more color development.

Secondly, fluorescent tubes create a more scattered light when using reflectors. They fill space better. Even if the intensity is low deeper in the tank the increased light scatter will fill in some shaded portions on the coral and improve overall color and growth shape.

Not knocking LEDs. Just giving you the benefits of tubes

 

[A. grandis]

Why aren't the "like the LANI or a Phillips Coral Care" offered in the U.S.?

Probably because they know that only a very small percentage will actually be able (or have the guts) to afford that!
People would compare the results and buy what it is made to resemble: T5s.
For much less you can achieve excellent results with a nice and simple Sunpower fixture. And that is proven.

 

[reefwiser]

Why aren't the "like the LANI or a Phillips Coral Care" offered in the U.S.?

Money. You can get Lani and Phillips lights in the US you just have to have the money. An they are not sold by Bulk Reef supply as they are way out of the price range of many hobbyist not all of them thou. [emoji3]

 

[Makers Marc]

Any updates from those who chose to supplement LEDs like Kessils with led strip lights like Orphek/Reefbrites?

Did it serve your purpose or did you wish you used t5s instead?