Tang acting strange

[SlothMartin]

Would you guys mind taking a look at my tang and tell me if you spot anything? Specifically the breathing at the end. I will post parameters in 1 minute

 

[SlothMartin]

tank is around 5 months old, tang has been in for 3 months, shes always been happy and swimming all over the tank, and hits the nori as well as mysis hard. one of my most enthusiastic eaters

the last day or so i havent seen her as much, and shes hiding out in a cave low in the tank. I added nori today and she took one nibble but thats it, more concerning she didnt come out of the cave for the evening mysis feeding which is highly unusual. This is my first tank so i dont know if the breathing is normal but it looks fast to me.

everyone else is active and happy, eating normally. fat. Most recent additions are a midas blenny and wrasse from dr reef (pre QT but did not QT at home) that was a few weeks ago and nothing to note.

feedings are half cube mysis morning and night and 4 feedings 2 hrs apart of 0.3g pellet mix during the day (tdo chromaboost, PE pellets, and hikari seaweed pellets)

temp - 78
PH 8.11
Alk 8.34
Nitrate 5
Phos 0.24
mag and calc have not tested recently but were in normal range a couple of weeks ago
tests are hanna. Also ran an ammonia test as a sanity check didnt show anything

my Phos has been swinging a bit, was up to 0.4 last week i reduced the pellet feedings and it did come down. nitrate has been pretty stable i dose 20ml neonitrate if it gets down to 2. everything else has been very stable. I have GFO and all for reef on hand but have not added either to the tank

im also seeing a bit of GHA pop up. no clue where my 2 turbo snails are but dont see any dead ones
i did add a fair amount of rock with the last fish additions based on some forum advice.

grateful for any insight or things to watch out for

 

[SlothMartin]

filtration is reefmat, skimmer, SURF ATS but its not really producing yet

 

[mcarroll]

Most recent additions are a midas blenny and wrasse from dr reef (pre QT but did not QT at home) that was a few weeks ago and nothing to note.

Both of those are pretty gregarious to say the least (could also call them slightly aggressive) .....IMO that's why the behavior change. No longer feeling "king of the hill".

Phos 0.24
[....]

my Phos has been swinging a bit, was up to 0.4 last week i reduced the pellet feedings and it did come down. nitrate has been pretty stable i dose 20ml neonitrate if it gets down to 2. everything else has been very stable. I have GFO and all for reef on hand but have not added either to the tank

Don't let PO4 go any lower unless this is a fish-only tank as then it prolly doesn't matter.

0.06 seems to be the new minimum recommendation, AFAIK nobody recommends 0.03 ppm anyore (thankfully)....I'd personally recommend a little higher at least until the tank matures: ≥ 0.10 ppm PO4.

Certainly do nothing else to lower it.

im also seeing a bit of GHA pop up. no clue where my 2 turbo snails are but dont see any dead ones

Seems like you have almost no cleanup crew then.....or perhaps literally none if they turbos are gone.

Algae will grow when there's nothing around to keep your tank groomed.

Time for a trip to the LFS!!!

Get a decent sized crew this time – I'm hoping this Tang is in a large tank, so 2 turbos was commically too-few to begin with.

A dozen turbos should be a good start, along with a decent compliment of smaller snails like astrea, trochus, margarita snails. Ceriths are awesome small snails, but again just a compliment of them....you'd need about 1000 to do the whole job and they may not do it even then. ;)

filtration is reefmat, skimmer, SURF ATS but its not really producing yet

Sounds like the reefmat and ATS can be put on hold until the tank matures and you find out if you really need them or not. Right now they are only trying to compete with your live rock and coral (if any). You don't want that.

Skimmer-only should be fine/ideal until then.

 

[SlothMartin]

thanks for the input. And sorry forgot to mention clean up crew. the 2 turbos were/are huge. there is also 50 odd snails mix of trochus, cerith, astrea. hermits, conchs and a coral banded shrimp.
To be clear my PO4 was 0.40, not 0.04.
and the wrasse is a malanurus i have not seen him bother anyone. The midas blenny had a couple run ins with the male anthias at the start but did not witness him bully anyone. hangs out tucked into a cave rock. But you may be right about the heirarchy now

tank is a cade 1200 which i believe is a little under 120g display

 

[mcarroll]

thanks for the input. And sorry forgot to mention clean up crew. the 2 turbos were/are huge. there is also 50 odd snails mix of trochus, cerith, astrea. hermits, conchs and a coral banded shrimp.
To be clear my PO4 was 0.40, not 0.04.
and the wrasse is a malanurus i have not seen him bother anyone. The midas blenny had a couple run ins with the male anthias at the start but did not witness him bully anyone. hangs out tucked into a cave rock. But you may be right about the heirarchy now

tank is a cade 1200 which i believe is a little under 120g display

I musta been talking to someone in RL while I was typing.....thought I saw 0.024 for some reason, which doesn't even make sense. :)

Still there's nothing wrong with those numbers (assuming this is a coral tank) so IMO stop messing with them and just let them stabilize. Make sure ZERO food is being wasted in the tank to elevate your numbers. If you're broadcast feeding that's almost surely what's raising them....stop that if at all possible.

Bu you mentioned "where are my 2 snails" which doesn't make me think there are 48 other snails in the tank. ;)

Keep in mind that shrimp and hermits are scavengers and don't figure in directly to algae control.

Unless you have A LOT of viewing time on the tank (even at night), they might still be aggravating the tang......but, the point still stands that he's not "king of the hill" anymore, so he's taking refuge more often.

Def. continue to keep an eye on everyone, and if you can do some night viewing it might be interesting.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Would you guys mind taking a look at my tang and tell me if you spot anything? Specifically the breathing at the end. I will post parameters in 1 minute

I see tail aggression and I do see heavy breathing. What other occupants in the tank and may be low dissolved Oxygen. What do you have in the tank for circulation?
What is ammonia and nitrate level and how are you testing these levels?

 

[SlothMartin]

2 return outlets that are pointed up to the surface, 2 dmp-40s, and skimmer for oxygen
Residents are firefish, malanurus wrasse, Midas Benny, 2 clowns 2 cardinals and 4 anthias
Ammonia zero nitrate 5

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

2 return outlets that are pointed up to the surface, 2 dmp-40s, and skimmer for oxygen
Residents are firefish, malanurus wrasse, Midas Benny, 2 clowns 2 cardinals and 4 anthias
Ammonia zero nitrate 5

I also see rapid/deep breathing. Your pH is good, so I’d say this isn’t a low dissolved oxygen/high CO2 issue.

I don’t see any issues with your general water quality.

Gill flukes are a possibility….

 

[vetteguy53081]

2 return outlets that are pointed up to the surface, 2 dmp-40s, and skimmer for oxygen
Residents are firefish, malanurus wrasse, Midas Benny, 2 clowns 2 cardinals and 4 anthias
Ammonia zero nitrate 5

Add an air stone. The pumps aimed up is Not sufficient. For fin damage, keep an eye on the clowns.

 

[MnFish1]

Im going to vote for gill flukes. There is clearly heavy breathing as others have said. Consider treating all of the fish in a hospital tank - or with careful oxygen monitoring prazipro in your display:)

 

[SlothMartin]

Thanks for the input, I have Prazipro on the way.
can you give advice on dosing?

I was reading prior threads on flukes and i believe it was Randy who suggested treatments 3 days apart, BUT when a wrasse present, underdose the prazi and dose 8 days apart instead. is this sufficient?

I have an air pump already (for the SURF) and stones are coming with the prazi. i moved one of the dmp-40s within 2 inches of the surface and there is a ton of water movement on the surface. Is there any way to know i have enough oxygenation or just have to trust i am doing enough?

should the stones be in the display or is it the same to run them in the sump? i will run the skimmer with no cup as well
(am i already getting additional oxygen from running the surf as is in the sump?)

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the input, I have Prazipro on the way.
can you give advice on dosing?

I was reading prior threads on flukes and i believe it was Randy who suggested treatments 3 days apart, BUT when a wrasse present, underdose the prazi and dose 8 days apart instead. is this sufficient?

I have an air pump already (for the SURF) and stones are coming with the prazi. i moved one of the dmp-40s within 2 inches of the surface and there is a ton of water movement on the surface. Is there any way to know i have enough oxygenation or just have to trust i am doing enough?

should the stones be in the display or is it the same to run them in the sump? i will run the skimmer with no cup as well
(am i already getting additional oxygen from running the surf as is in the sump?)

No - the 3 day spacing is for live bearing flukes, the 8 day spacing is designed to catch more egg layers (and those are the most common in marine fish).

Don't underdose! You need to dose for the actual volume of water in the tank and add aeration. The "lower dose" idea came about because home tanks, due to displacement by rocks and sand, don't actually hold their rated volume. So - to estimate that, use 85% of the rated volume and dose that. For example, if you have a 20 gallon tank, dose prazi at as if it is 17 gallons.

Here is my full post on dosing praziquantel:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dosing-praziquantel-pzq.1105700/

 

[SlothMartin]

Thanks very much for the assist, Jay. I will read the whole thing and sorry if i misattributed the thread i read earlier

 

[SlothMartin]

OK read through the whole thread, and have this plan

- Ordered Fritz PraziCleanse powder, since Jay's thread indicated that the powder may be easier on the oxygen, and therefore easier on my wrasse. I believe my total system volume is 135g so 85% = 115g treatment (which is about the same volume as my display)
- Will run the skimmer with no cup (turn up skimmer so it overflows easily?)
- Remove carbon.
- Should i remove ceramic media as well? i use for basically just copepod habitat in the sump

- I am having live rock delivered in 10 days (for sump cryptic zone) which is bad timing if worms or feather dusters get killed by the 2nd treatment, but not sure there is anything i can do about that. could potentially put in a brute but if i want to go 3 treatments thats going to end up 10 days

- i will add the prazi powder to brine net, into RODI and then dose that directly to the display.
- the brine net pack comes with 80 and 200 micron filters. does it matter which i use?

- reefmat filter is i believe 50 micron. should i bypass the reefmat during treatment? Jay said 25micron or less should be bypassed, but probably doesnt hurt to be safe

edit: ill of course read the instructions but based on the thread i am getting this calculation
115g x3.8 = 437 liters, x2.5mg/l = 1100 mg roughly

 

[SlothMartin]

er, have another question, is there something else in the fritz prazicleanse?
it says each pack is 1 gram and to use 1 pack per 20 gallons of water. that would be almost 5 packs for my tank, or 5 grams which is way way higher than the formula suggests unless i am doing it wrong

edit: nvm looks like fritz is 19% pzq by weight which explains the differences

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

OK read through the whole thread, and have this plan

- Ordered Fritz PraziCleanse powder, since Jay's thread indicated that the powder may be easier on the oxygen, and therefore easier on my wrasse. I believe my total system volume is 135g so 85% = 115g treatment (which is about the same volume as my display)
- Will run the skimmer with no cup (turn up skimmer so it overflows easily?)
- Remove carbon.
- Should i remove ceramic media as well? i use for basically just copepod habitat in the sump

- I am having live rock delivered in 10 days (for sump cryptic zone) which is bad timing if worms or feather dusters get killed by the 2nd treatment, but not sure there is anything i can do about that. could potentially put in a brute but if i want to go 3 treatments thats going to end up 10 days

- i will add the prazi powder to brine net, into RODI and then dose that directly to the display.
- the brine net pack comes with 80 and 200 micron filters. does it matter which i use?

- reefmat filter is i believe 50 micron. should i bypass the reefmat during treatment? Jay said 25micron or less should be bypassed, but probably doesnt hurt to be safe

edit: ill of course read the instructions but based on the thread i am getting this calculation
115g x3.8 = 437 liters, x2.5mg/l = 1100 mg roughly

I would keep the ceramic media in place.

You won’t likely see a die off of worms - prazi just makes them “relax”, flukes drop off the fish and cannot reattach, so they die.

I’d use the finer mesh brine net. You’ll have to knead it, rinse it down and keep repeating until it all gets into your tank as a sort of a slurry.

I don’t have a strong opinion about the reef mat. It may trap some of the larger prazi particles, but as long as water keeps rinsing over them, breaking them up.

I can’t double check your calculations, I’m on my cell phone…..