Tang with Lympho

[haleyf1024]

My purple tang has what I think to be lympho. He is in QT with 4 other fish, none of which have it. I know it is not ich because the spots are too big, same for velvet. Once the cysts fall off, does the lympho still live in him, or can I put him in a bag, acclimate him to DT tank water, take him out of the bag, into another bag with 100% tank water and then put him into the DT (tank transfer method) to shake off the unnoticeable cysts? Or will that not do a thing and he will continue to get it? Will my other fish eventually succumb to the lympho and all get it?

 

[Humblefish]

Lymphocystis is the "herpes" of the fish world. It is a virus many fish carry for life, with no known cure. Fortunately, it is rarely fatal unless it grows over a sensitive area (mouth, gills) or occurs in a really old fish.

Below is my brief summary on Lympho. And here is a detailed article about it: FA181/FA181: Lymphocystis Disease in Fish

Lymphocystis:

Symptoms - Lymphocystis appears as a white or beige colored cauliflower-like growth that usually starts on the fins and spines and sometimes spreads to the body. Initially it may be small (looks like ich), and then grows in size (which is how you know it’s not ich). Lympho is a virus that many fish carry for life. Fortunately, it is rarely fatal or even harmful to the fish, and symptoms will come and go.

Treatment options - No known cure or treatment exists. However, feeding vitamin-enriched foods and maintaining pristine water conditions may expedite the “going away” process.

 

[haleyf1024]

Yeah that's what I had read, I was just hoping tank transfer would help him out. I have seen bad lympho that grew near the mouth that caused the fish to stop eating and that is what I am worried about ):

 

[Humblefish]

Yeah that's what I had read, I was just hoping tank transfer would help him out. I have seen bad lympho that grew near the mouth that caused the fish to stop eating and that is what I am worried about ):

In 35+ years, I've only lost 2 fish to Lympho. Both were very large angels (Queen and Scribbled) around 10-15 years old. With the Queen it grew over it's mouth and the fish stopped eating. I surgically removed the growth a couple of times, but the fish never resumed feeding and ultimately died. With the scribbled, it became completely covered in nodules even over it's gills. Ironically, it's mate seemed unaffected but stopped eating and died a month later.

 

[haleyf1024]

I'm sorry to hear that It sounds more like the cancer of fish instead of herpes. So tank transfer won't do anything? It lives in their system?

 

[Humblefish]

I'm sorry to hear that It sounds more like the cancer of fish instead of herpes. So tank transfer won't do anything? It lives in their system?

Yes, it is a virus with no known cure. Technically, it can be spread to other fish ... although I have seen no evidence of this. I have a PBT in my 150 who has had it for going on 6 years now. However, none of her tank mates have ever shown symptoms.

 

[haleyf1024]

Well that's good to hear then. My guy has a pretty bad case (to me at least) and has probably close to 100 cysts on him total. Does it hurt them?

 

[Humblefish]

Well that's good to hear then. My guy has a pretty bad case (to me at least) and has probably close to 100 cysts on him total. Does it hurt them?

I don't know about hurt, but the growths do seem to irritate my PBT when she gets them. She will swim erratically and try to rub the affected fin on the glass.

 

[haleyf1024]

Poor girl My purple seems okay, just a bit more nervous but maybe thats irritation. How often should I expect an outbreak? My understanding is that the cysts stay for 1-3 weeks before falling off

 

[Humblefish]

Poor girl My purple seems okay, just a bit more nervous but maybe thats irritation. How often should I expect an outbreak? My understanding is that the cysts stay for 1-3 weeks before falling off

Once a fish enters the DT, a recurrence is rare. My PBT will sometimes go years. However, anything stressful does seem to bring it back. Last time I saw it was when she became constipated, and I had to move her to a HT for a week. Time before that was during a move. Anything that disrupts her routine or makes her unhappy.

 

[Humblefish]

This explains about the constipation thing if that sounded weird: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-discussion/182964-feeding-red-nori.html

 

[Reefing Madness]

Lymphocystis is a common viral infection of ornamental marine (and freshwater) fishes, caused by a number of related viruses. Most hobbyists refer to this as "Lymph" although honestly it's mostly because it's a hard word to always spell correctly AND remember! Lymphocystis is not fatal unless just totally ignored and the fish is being extra stressed from injury, illness, bad water quality and/or poor nutrition. You of course want to be sure you are in fact dealing with this virus. There are plenty of photos on the Internet for you to see marine fishes with this disease. Many are at various stages. In words, the clumps or nodules appear to be of varying shapes, but quite a bit resembling that of a white to pink cauliflower or a mulberry. These clumps appear on the top of the fish's skin, often found on fins, from pinpoint size to a few mm. They almost 'call to you' to just pick them off! Some are small -- 1 mm or less in size -- majority of them are medium in size -- 2-5 mm in size -- some are larger.

These viruses can live in water without a host for at least up to one week, so far that has been shown in research. The virus is transmitted to other fishes through skin and tissue abrasions (cuts and tares). We probably see nodules where the virus first got a food hold, but this is just my opinion (just so you know the difference between opinion and the facts I present here). However, under microscopic examination, other dermal cells of the fish show infection. So just don't fall into the trap of thinking the virus is just where you see the clumps -- it's all over the fish.

Some cultivated and wild fishes are found to have latent viruses in their system. Add to this a long incubation period (up to several months) and it may seem to the untrained and uneducated person that all fish have it. Infected fishes may never display the nodules! When the fish is captured, handled, netted, transported, etc., etc. is when the fish maybe injured but certainly stressed to the point where the virus will display. In the care of the hobbyist, the virus can display when water quality, environment or feeding is poor (or any combo of these). The handling of uninfected fishes can cause skin abrasions and torn, cut fins which makes them susceptible to being infected by infected fishes. The rough handling adds to the stress on these fishes, which can then cause the virus to display in them, too. Again it seems like all the fish have it. Not true.

The virus can transfer to other, uninfected fishes. If the uninfected fishes are in top condition in high water quality, they will not likely contract the disease. Also, even if the healthy, unstressed fish does get infected, it may never display. In these ways, this virus has some similarity to the human common cold virus. Being exposed to someone with a cold doesn't give you the cold. Most of us have that virus in our systems, but until we are stressed or 'run down' it usually doesn't take hold. Another good analogy here is thinking that the human cold is just in the nose because that is where the symptoms are. Noted above, just because you see the nodules on the fins for instance, doesn't mean that is just where the virus is located.

This group of viruses is unusual. First, these viruses are in the 'self-limiting' category of viruses. When conditions for the fish improve, the viruses go into regression. Not necessarily cured, but the fish no longer displays the nodules. It is up to the hobbyist to prevent the display of this virus by providing high water quality, the proper nutrition, and the proper environment (proper water changes, maintenance of filters, clean up routine, community where fish is safe and not bullied, etc.). Another feature they have is that they are of the higher forms of typical viruses. Not the simplistic kind that children are taught about in high school.

I have had hundreds of marine fishes over the years, displaying Lymphocystis. First thing to do with an infected fish is to remove as many of the stresses on the fish as you can, or at least significantly reduce the stresses. This means:

1) Isolate (quarantine) the fish if any of these things apply:
- i) Fish is covered in many areas with nodules;
- ii) Fish is being harassed by other fish;
- iii) Nodules on the fish's mouth hinder it from eating normally; and/or
- iv) Fish shows signs of secondary infections or disease
2) Improve water quality; and
3) improve environment (clean up, return to proper maintenance, check filters and keep clean, clean out detritus in the entire system, etc.).

The next thing to do is to improve its and all the fish's diet. This means:
a) Provide the proper diet and feed enough food, frequently enough;
b) Use fat and vitamin supplements, especially the right kind of vitamin C (see link below);
c) Use immune boosters and
d) Wait it out.

Remember, a fish displaying this is because it has suffered in your or the previous people's hands that have handled this fish. The fish is stressed, maybe slightly injured. Helping the fish get better will require taking ALL the above actions, just not picking and choosing the ones you want. If the hobbyist is successful at addressing all the above and doing it all diligently, the fish will stop displaying Lymphocystis in anywhere from a couple of weeks to a few months.

If it was necessary to isolate the fish, then treat with an antibiotic. The antibiotic does not cure the fish of Lymphocystis, but will prevent other bacterial and opportunistic pathogens from gaining any foothold. I would recommend treating with Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes. Just follow directions on the medication.

Things that don't work or which pose additional problems include:
I) Trying to get cleaner fish or cleaner shrimp to 'clean' the fish of it;
II) Trying to put medications into the water or trying to medicate the fish; and
III) Scraping the fish with a human fingernail or an instrument. (This will break nodules and send the virus into the water in large numbers, and possibly cause more abrasion to the fish's skin which just means more infection sites AND further stressing the fish).

Things that do help, but which are not necessary to do:
A) Surgically removing the lumps (this require surgery (duh!) and anesthetizing the fish);
B) Isolate the fish (into a QT -- not a big requirement unless 1) above applies) ISOLATE ALL FISHES WITH EXTENSIVE VIRAL INFECTIONS OR WHICH MAY BE DISPLAYING SECONDARY INFECTIONS;
C) If isolated in a QT, swab clumps with Betadiene disinfectant every other day (this requires anesthetizing the fish); and
D) Obtaining the Neon Blue Goby (Elacatinus oceanops). These fish sometimes actually eat it off of some displaying marine fishes (not a cure, just removes what you see for the time being).

Quote from LEEBCA, Marine Biologist.