Tank birthday, 47+ years

[Kmst80]

Kmst80. Nice story and you had it much worse than almost anyone living in the States. Unfortunately many people living here now, especially young people born after wars don't have much of a clue and to many people here feel they are entitled to things without working for them.

I find that disgusting. I like hard work and appreciate things I work for and don't want anything for nothing which is why I don't gamble or even play the lottery.

I didn't have it near as hard as you because I was born here in Brooklyn New York. But as for being creative, my Dad died suddenly when I was 10. My Mom had 2 sons and a mortgage so there was no chance of a new bicycle or anything like that. I built my bikes from parts I found in lots.

All my first tanks were the bottoms of wine barrels and I kept mostly turtles and frogs that I caught. I still love those creatures. I always worked and like working. At 12 I was offered a job in a car wrecking yard by my neighbor and I learned about cars which always made me money.


Anyone can be successful if you live here and have a work ethic. Not so much in a communist country. I fought the Communists in Viet Nam and saw the conditions they lived in. I was very lucky to be born here. :)

I am glad you were able to get out of that country and go to Australia, a country that I visited on R&R in 1971. I stayed in Kings Cross when that was a nice place to visit. I hear it went down hill after I left.

How far are you from there?

Paul,

drive about 1000 km north and you will reach the town of Ipswich which i call my home. Been to Kings Cross though, the red light district of Sydney.

Growing up in a communist country wasn't all that bad. Everyone had a job, everyone had a roof over the head, everyone could afford the basic needs of living. We kids could go on summer and winter camp each year for free organized by the factory my dad was working in. After school care was free.

But does that outweigh the one party system where they have to build a wall around the country the keep the people from running away, where the Stasi(Like KGB) is everywhere and everyone and can do what they want, where you get shot if you tried to flee the country, where you got thrown into jail if you are against the system?

Communism in itself is a great idea and very different to what we see in communist countries, but it will never work because mankind is greedy.

 

[Kmst80]

@Kmst80
In 1967, while in the USAF, I traveled by train from Frankfurt, Germany to Berlin. With Berlin in East Germany as part of the Soviet Union, I saw first hand communist oppression in the USSR. Also, during my 4 years of service, I spent four 90 day tours in Cambodia as a crew chief on Puff the Magic Dragon in support of 82nd Airborne Rangers as they dealt with both NVA & Kamar Rouge communist.

Are you close enough to the coast to dive on the Great Barrier reef?

I snorkeled the reef a couple of times, but have to go a bit further north from where i am. But the next moneypit hobby is going to be scuba diving...the only way of seeing the reef properly.

 

[Paul B]

Paul,
You are indeed a true romantic. For certain, you are married to a super model.
Patrick

Patrick, you met my Supermodel. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Kmst80, I SCUBA dove for about 50 years and my first dive was in the Great Barrier Reef on R&R.

Loved the diving and the place. :)

 

[atoll]

Everybody is right till proven wrong. The rulers of the box have been trying but failing to prove you wrong Paul for as long as marine keeping has existed. It really annoys them and gets under their filters... I mean skin.

People laugh at our stupid impossible success because of that infernal box. I face the same on a well known UK forum and on here of course.

You don't QT I don't QT we don't get problems with the likes of itch but nobody knows why apart from those who do similar to us with similar results. It's vodo, luck and even our lies, can't be any other reason right as the box dictates. Few in the box dare do anything against the war lords and high preist's who control the box. The thou shall not is a pretty strong faith in that box.

You I and some others are simply mad as what we do can't possibly work the box has decreed it. Long live the box they preach. However, if you can take a deep breath and break out of the box a whole new reefkeeping world exists. Amen.

 

[Subsea]

Everybody is right till proven wrong. The rulers of the box have been trying but failing to prove you wrong Paul for as long as marine keeping has existed. It really annoys them and gets under their filters... I mean skin.

People laugh at our stupid impossible success because of that infernal box. I face the same on a well known UK forum and on here of course.

You don't QT I don't QT we don't get problems with the likes of itch but nobody knows why apart from those who do similar to us with similar results. It's vodo, luck and even our lies, can't be any other reason right as the box dictates. Few in the box dare do anything against the war lords and high preist's who control the box. The thou shall not is a pretty strong faith in that box.

You I and some others are simply mad as what we do can't possibly work the box has decreed it. Long live the box they preach. However, if you can take a deep breath and break out of the box a whole new reefkeeping world exists. Amen.

@atoll
when I started this hobby, the internet was an infant and Albert Thiel, Martin Moe and John Tullock were information gurus. Thank you for your contribution to common sense Reefing. I have especially liked your use of hydrogen peroxide with Oxygenator.

 

[Paul B]

LOL Atoll. I no longer am concerned as to what people do but I do find it funny that there are hundreds of thousands of people in this hobby and as many more that left and the majority of them just won't get it because of the thinking inside the box.

Of course we all started in that box, well I didn't because no one was around then and even though John the Baptist spent a lot of time in water, I think he just ignored the fish that he wasn't trying to eat.

I find this hobby very simple and the fish get on with their life just fine as long as we stay out of their business.

I just added 4 pipefish a couple of weeks ago and ordered them from a friend who sells quarantined fish. He guaranteed that he could get me fish right from the sea with no medications or quarantine and he did. Thats why I call him a friend. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Some day people will realize that fish need parasites, bacteria, viruses and fungus to stay healthy, but in the meantime, many fish will unfortunately die by good hearted people who are just doing what they learned on these forums and "help" the fish to severely shorten their life spans.

It is what it is. :confused-face:

 

[atoll]

@atoll
when I started this hobby, the internet was an infant and Albert Thiel, Martin Moe and John Tullock were information gurus. Thank you for your contribution to common sense Reefing. I have especially liked your use of hydrogen peroxide with Oxygenator.

Thank you it means a lot.
I became quite good friends with Albert and met hfew times times. I also met and talked with Martin and many back then. Both showed interest in what I had to say and had achieved. No interweb to talk about 40 lus years ago. We did have a few marine clubs scattered around the country along with with the British Marine Aquarists Association. BMAA for short with it's quarterly journal, PFK and little else.

 

[atoll]

Some day people will realize that fish need parasites, bacteria, viruses and fungus to stay healthy, but in the meantime, many fish will unfortunately die by good hearted people who are just doing what they learned on these forums and "help" the fish to severely shorten their life spans.

It is what it is. :confused-face:

Then they read our posts and some will get very confused which isn't our intention at all. We just want to show there is another way a way that works, reduces risk not increase it a better way, a simple way abd even a more cost effective way both in fish and these unnecessary expenditure on cures that wouldn't exist.

It took my first 10 years in this hobby to stop and think outside the restrictive awful box that I now know it to be. I looked towards nature she is the best teacher there is on how-to care for animals.

You know my saying and philosophy Paul. Follow mother nature she knows best afterall she has had millions of years to perfect her ways. We can't improve on her ways but we can as much as is reasonably possible (people will have their own interpretation of reasonable in this hobby) follow her teachings and if you do you won't go far wrong.

We are friends on here as we understand to some extent how nature works. We think similar and do similar. We do have some differences of course and it's true no 2 tanks are the same but we are in the same frame if mind and teach similar things as we both know.

People can argue against us, use their science and learnings from the box but they cannot argue with success of our methods. The people who worship the box must do a lot of head scratching.

 

[exnisstech]

I have very little patience. The VA tells me that is because of PTSD. I don't know. But I really don't like to wait in lines

I don't have patience either. I don't have PTSD, at least no one has told me I do but I don't have a doctor or therapist. I think it may be because I spent too much time alone as a child growing up in a rural area with no friends to play with so I spent my days hunting and fishing alone. Unless it was Saturday and my Dad wasn't forced to work overtime then he would take me. . Fortunaly my Gal does have patience so she doesn't get upset when she can't find me in the store because the spring inside me was getting wound up and ready to snap so I had to go out to the car or sit on a bench, one that is empty is preferred.

This is my first visit into this thread and I think I'm going to have to go back to the begining and read it like a book. I just finished yours by the way and enjoyed it very much. Thanks for all of your contributions and humor. It's like a breath of fresh air. I'm an older retired guy and not all impressed with these times. Now I'm going to go watch the darn GHA grow because it is growing better than everything else in the tank. That is how I practice patience :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing: Thanks again Paul

 

[Swiss Frag Reefer]

Wow great job! Did you ever replaced certain things inside like sand and rock, or everything 40+ years old?

 

[snorklr]

ok if i correctly interpreted the last couple of posts if you quarantine, medicate and dont run a RFUG you're probably a communist...

 

[Paul B]

Exnisstech, thank you for reading my book and joining my thread :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Wow great job! Did you ever replaced certain things inside like sand and rock, or everything 40+ years old?

Thomas, if you are asking me, my tank is 51 years old this year and I did replace much of the rock over those years. When I started the tank there was no live rock so I added it gradually as the hobby advanced. I never bought any as I collected it all either in the South Pacific, the Caribbean or New York.

It used to be legal to collect and bring it home on the plane on your lap. Now they would just shoot you. My gravel is original after about the first year and my water has never been completely changed since 1972 or so. Of course I change water but the tank was never emptied and dried out although I did move 3 times. I just put everything in vats and drove it in a truck to the new place.

I have been here on eastern Long Island almost 5 years and I collect water now behind my house.

ok if i correctly interpreted the last couple of posts if you quarantine, medicate and dont run a RFUG you're probably a communist...

Exactly......:rolleyes:

 

[BirdFish5000]

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/delusional

 

[Paul B]

Definition of Avant-garde​

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The avant-garde (/ˌævɒ̃ˈɡɑːrd/;[2] In French: [avɑ̃ɡaʁd][3] 'advance guard' or 'vanguard', literally 'fore-guard')[4] is a person or work that is experimental, radical, or unorthodox with respect to art, culture, or society.[4][5][6] It is frequently characterized by aesthetic innovation and "initial unacceptability."[7]

The avant-garde pushes the boundaries of what is accepted as the norm or the status quo, primarily in the cultural realm. The avant-garde is considered by some to be a hallmark of modernism.[8] Many artists have aligned themselves with the avant-garde movement, and still continue to do so, tracing their history from Dada through the Situationists and to postmodern artists such as the Language poets around 1981.[9][failed verification]


The Avant-garde

the painters, writers, musicians, and other artists whose ideas, styles, and methods are very original or modern in comparison to the period in which they live, or the work of these artists:

In French, avant-garde means the “vanguard” or the “advance guard” — basically the people and ideas that are ahead of their time.

—avant-garde. The French term, which translates to “advance guard” or “vanguard,” refers to something visionary and ahead of its time.

 

[Subsea]

Then they read our posts and some will get very confused which isn't our intention at all. We just want to show there is another way a way that works, reduces risk not increase it a better way, a simple way abd even a more cost effective way both in fish and these unnecessary expenditure on cures that wouldn't exist.

It took my first 10 years in this hobby to stop and think outside the restrictive awful box that I now know it to be. I looked towards nature she is the best teacher there is on how-to care for animals.

You know my saying and philosophy Paul. Follow mother nature she knows best afterall she has had millions of years to perfect her ways. We can't improve on her ways but we can as much as is reasonably possible (people will have their own interpretation of reasonable in this hobby) follow her teachings and if you do you won't go far wrong.

We are friends on here as we understand to some extent how nature works. We think similar and do similar. We do have some differences of course and it's true no 2 tanks are the same but we are in the same frame if mind and teach similar things as we both know.

People can argue against us, use their science and learnings from the box but they cannot argue with success of our methods. The people who worship the box must do a lot of head scratching.

Emulate nature:
Nature is very efficient at what it does. Real scientist understand that a healthy reef in the wild is a complex ecosystem that is interconnected & interdependent with crosstalk between bacteria and coral that adjust gene expression in the complete ecosystem as a whole unit, the Coral Holibiont.

The coral holobiont is comprised of the coral animal and its associated microorganisms consisting of bacteria, archaea, fungi, viruses, and protists including the dinoflagellate algae Symbiodinium (Rohwer et al., 2002).


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4286716/

 

[Paleozoic_reefer]

Definition of Avant-garde​

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The avant-garde (/ˌævɒ̃ˈɡɑːrd/;[2] In French: [avɑ̃ɡaʁd][3] 'advance guard' or 'vanguard', literally 'fore-guard')[4] is a person or work that is experimental, radical, or unorthodox with respect to art, culture, or society.[4][5][6] It is frequently characterized by aesthetic innovation and "initial unacceptability."[7]

The avant-garde pushes the boundaries of what is accepted as the norm or the status quo, primarily in the cultural realm. The avant-garde is considered by some to be a hallmark of modernism.[8] Many artists have aligned themselves with the avant-garde movement, and still continue to do so, tracing their history from Dada through the Situationists and to postmodern artists such as the Language poets around 1981.[9][failed verification]


The Avant-garde

the painters, writers, musicians, and other artists whose ideas, styles, and methods are very original or modern in comparison to the period in which they live, or the work of these artists:

In French, avant-garde means the “vanguard” or the “advance guard” — basically the people and ideas that are ahead of their time.

—avant-garde. The French term, which translates to “advance guard” or “vanguard,” refers to something visionary and ahead of its time.

—avant-garde. A reefers term, which translates to “What do you mean you don’t quarantine?!” or “You don’t do 99% WCs every other week?!” refers to something visionary and ahead of its time, and eventually over 40+ years is proven right!

 

[Paul B]

Paleozic_reefer, I like that. :)

Everybody with a 40 + year old fully quarantined or medicated tank, raise your hand...........Higher......

How about 20+ year old. 15.......10...... OK, last Tuesday. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Crickets. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

The hobby has been here in the US for 51 years. Where is everyone that started then?
I posted a long post of how quarantine or medication with associated stress severely shortens the life span of all creatures that are made out of cells. That includes us, aardvarks, newts, grasshoppers, Nancy Pelosi, Duck Billed platypuses, communists and fish. :astonished-face:

I am not trying to call anyone out because some quarantined tanks are gorgeous and I am jealous of them. But according to science stress shortens the life of fish. I can't help it but it's a fact.

 

[atoll]

I have read a few posts on another forum about fish contracting Lymphocystis while in QT after a couple weeks of introduction to QT. Now I know little about disease but my understanding with Google confirming Lymphocystis is primary caused by stress.

In other words QTing a fish is causing most fish stress but my guess QT is stressing all fish some perhaps more than others. We know stress is a killer and we know many fish die in QT for one reason or another poisoned or stressed to the point of death often the underlying cause.

Lymphocystis is a viral infection and uncurable. Any fish contracting it has it for life and stress will often bring it to the fore again and again I am informed.

I have never had a fish contract Lymphocystis in over 30 years but then my fish are only stressed on initial introduction with no sign of stress within a day or so of introduction. I of coursecnever QT my fish. Most my new introductions settle very quickly and eat either the same or by the following day.

Stress is a big killer of fish as we have often read and courts not only Lymphocystis but a variety of diseases including itch and makes a fish more susceptible to catching these diseases.

 

[Paul B]

I have also never seen that or uronema or any of the commonly mentioned diseases on these forums.

 

[theMeat]

I have read a few posts on another forum about fish contracting Lymphocystis while in QT after a couple weeks of introduction to QT. Now I know little about disease but my understanding with Google confirming Lymphocystis is primary caused by stress.

In other words QTing a fish is causing most fish stress but my guess QT is stressing all fish some perhaps more than others. We know stress is a killer and we know many fish die in QT for one reason or another poisoned or stressed to the point of death often the underlying cause.

Lymphocystis is a viral infection and uncurable. Any fish contracting it has it for life and stress will often bring it to the fore again and again I am informed.

I have never had a fish contract Lymphocystis in over 30 years but then my fish are only stressed on initial introduction with no sign of stress within a day or so of introduction. I of coursecnever QT my fish. Most my new introductions settle very quickly and eat either the same or by the following day.

Stress is a big killer of fish as we have often read and courts not only Lymphocystis but a variety of diseases including itch and makes a fish more susceptible to catching these diseases.

Stress is certainly a factor, as anyone and everyone should acknowledge. IME and imo another biggy is wiping your tank and livestock of anything that cold possibly cause problems is not natural, nor good for long term health. Like my Grandma used to say, you need to eat 2 pounds of dirt by the time you’re 3 years old or you won’t be healthy.