Tank birthday, 47+ years

[Paul B]

Maybe it's me and I know I am old but we were out with some friends a few nights ago and one of his kids just got married. Very nice right?

OK so he paid for their wedding. I know thats a big thing, pay for the kids wedding and I don't find problems with that. I personally wouldn't take money from my parents if I wanted to get married and I didn't when I got married and I had a huge wedding but thats just me.

Anyway. He said he was trying to buy this kid a house but he is having trouble because he bought his other kid a house.
The guy is a working man and not Elon Musk.

I would be so embarrassed if I let my parents buy me a house or car. Like how stupid and lazy are you that you let your parents, who probably worked hard all their life spend their retirement money on you? And I had the opportunity to get a free car when I got out of the army. I refused.

I would go and bury my head in my worm tank and never be seen in public but I know thats how kids live today.

I posted this a few times (probably to many times but I am senile and have PTSD so forgive me) My Dad died when I was 10 and although it was a tragedy, especially for my Mom who was taking care of two boys and had a new mortgage so I went out and made money.

My Dad taught me right. If I wanted some money as a little kid, maybe a nickle, he would give it to me, but I had to shine his shoes which were covered in fish scales because he owned a fish market, or I had to wash our car which was a 1947 Pontiac with no paint on it.

Then I would go to the candy store and maybe buy 5 pieces of bubble gum. And no one was going to take that gum from me, because I worked for it.

At 12 years old I got a job in a junk yard cutting apart cars with an acetylene torch and it was all uphill from there. I found that making money is so easy because there is money all over the place. The world is full of money and it is easy to get (legally) Don't rob banks or break into Nancy Pelosi's house or anything. (yes I hope her husband recovers soon and without much pain because I have nothing against him)

But getting back to money. I feel we have to teach kids early. My own Grand Kids are totally spoiled but I am not raising them.
Our Daughter I think was raised right as she paid for her wedding, car and house. I am extremely proud of her for that and she knows it.

To me, independence is the most important thing we can teach the new generation. WE feel that Life, is hard like some people feel reef tanks are hard.
They are not, we make it hard..Unless we are not healthy of course.

I realize not everyone is handy and many people can't fix cars do plumbing or electrical work but there are so many things kids can do. One of the things I did was paint houses. Any Jiboni can paint and if you can't, call the school you went to and get your money back. It takes absolutely no talent just a passion for neatness.

Pull out weeds, remove brush or small trees, detail cars, wash windows, get rid of trash, powerwash house exteriors, wash garage doors, drive elderly people to a doctor (yes, wait for them to get out so you can drive them home)

These are all simple things but if you ask virtually 99.9% of kids today, all those things are to hard and besides, their parents support them.
After working all day I would almost always have some sort of side job and I had to go to school two nights a week.

I would fix cars or as I said, paint, clean, etc. On Friday nights I cleaned a sea food market for ten bucks. I would make maybe $15.00 or $20.00 bucks a night and remember that was 1965 when the minimum wage was about $1.25 an hour.

I almost made more money working after work, than I made on my job when I was an apprentice. I guess kids today can't use a few hundred bucks a week.

To make any money at these things you have to be very neat, very nice and go the extra mile. When I used to fix cars, If I had time, I would wash the car and de grease the engine, maybe pick the customer up from the train.

Just by doing this, I had so many customers that I had to severely limit my working. Today if I needed it, I can easily make at least one or two hundred bucks every afternoon.
But I guess it's just me because I am old, not lazy and have a different perception of life. I believe in hard work and to take pride in what I do. I don't want anything for nothing and won't even buy a lottery ticket. I feel if you are to lazy to make money, starve. Thats the way it was for 30 million years and it worked well.

Thats our Pontiac behind me and my first girlfriend. I was always a Ladies Man.

 

[CubsFan]

Probably time to recognize your unhealthy obsession with Nancy Pelosi.

Been following you for over a decade going back to reef central. Get it together man.

 

[Paul B]

Nancy Pelosi wasn't a thing then as far as I can remember. I think I spoke more about Paris Hilton then.



I was on Reef Central probably soon after they stated the thing. Are you still on there?

I just bought 2 green clown gobies and a tiny 1/2" tang. I don't like tangs but I never seen one of these and I forgot the name. But it will come tome. It starts with a T.

I also got a leather coral. After 15 minutes of acclimation they are all in my tank but I can't find any of those fish yet. In an hour or so I should see the gobies but I think that tiny tang will stay in a cave somewhere.

 

[Paul B]

I don't find fish any sicker today than I did 40 years ago. To me, whatever disease we perceive them to come in with is just something that all fish in the sea have and the store or wholesaler has to use some sort of medication so they can sell that fish. I get that and I would do the same thing or there would be no salt water fish hobby.

Those medications will hide whatever disease those fish have so they can sell the fish and without them, no fish would make it through the collection, holding and shipping process. This is a necessary evil we must deal with for this hobby to continue.

Remember the parasites we see are on the outside of the fish, but the medication is going all through the organs of the fish and it's circulatory system. What do you think would happen to us if we drank copper, Prizapro or Hydrogen peroxide?

Those medications, no matter what they are will suppress the fishes immunity and the longer the fish is subjected to that, the worse it will be for the fish, and ultimately us the consumers.

Due to this, some fish will die shortly after we get them. That is because the gut bacteria is beyond the fishes ability to resurrect them.

The fish can't do it on their own. The only place gut bacteria can come from is the food. If we take that fish from an LFS and put it in a bare tank and feed something like flakes and pellets, it may be doomed depending on how long it was in medication as there is no gut bacteria in those foods.

Now if we again put it in more medication, the fish has no choice but to come down with one of the other diseases we see all the time on these forums. We can't treat those afflictions with medication because the fish is suffering from the very medications we are now using.

It's like George Washington. As he lay dying on Dec 14th 1799 at 67 years old his physician proceeded to use the trusted treatment of the time. They bled him and removed five pints of blood effectively killing him. (I know that is political. I am sorry)

We are doing the same thing with our fish.
It would be better if we took that fish from the wholesaler and immediately fed it with something with living bacteria like live worms. The fish will immediately start to re build it's gut bacteria and it's immunity to fight whatever it's ailments are as the fish already has immunity to it. It is just weakened by the medication because the existing immunity won't work without the bacteria and the fishes immune system will recognize the disease as soon as the bacteria develop.

Of curse the fish may die during this process because it doesn't happen overnight. But I do know that medication will make it worse.
Just my opinion of course

 

[Paul B]

I just took a video. There are about 30 fish in there but most are small and thy like to hide especially when I open the top.

 

[vlangel]

Hey Paul, is your new tang a tomini? I have one of those and they are great detritivores. Mine picks the macro algae, rocks and sand constantly and it's very helpful.

 

[MichaelReefer]

No one wants to work anymore, @Paul B . My family taught me not to have excuses. My family is all Italian Immigrants, came over between 1920-1950. My fathers dad worked two jobs, 20 hours a day. One as a dish washer and one at San Francisco Waste Disposal as a garbage man (back when they threw the cans). Currently I work 11 hour days and feel lucky to do it and have a job. (I love all the extra money from overtime). Unfortunately people today want to get paid, but not do the work.

 

[HBtank]

No one wants to work anymore, @Paul B . My family taught me not to have excuses. My family is all Italian Immigrants, came over between 1920-1950. My fathers dad worked two jobs, 20 hours a day. One as a dish washer and one at San Francisco Waste Disposal as a garbage man (back when they threw the cans). Currently I work 11 hour days and feel lucky to do it and have a job. (I love all the extra money from overtime). Unfortunately people today want to get paid, but not do the work.

I think the average worker in their 20-30s is discouraged, mainly because of this:

It's kind of shocking to see the relative purchasing power prior generations had for all but the most menial jobs. Now many people who even do well in a STEM career, working 50-60 hours a week, may never own a home unless inherited or they relocate to the cheapest markets.

 

[Paul B]

Hey Paul, is your new tang a tomini?

Yes it is. It just started coming out today for feedings and I am sure tomorrow he will be out constantly. But he is the size of a nickel.

My family is all Italian Immigrants, came over between 1920-1950.

Michael, my family came here in 1902 from Sciacca which is a small fishing village in Sicily. I have been there. In 1920 my Dad peddled fish and walked a push cart over the Brooklyn Bridge with this thing twice every day 6 days a week. He died at 47 and never even went out of New York.

When he suddenly died my Mother would take in laundry to make extra money to supplement her day job sewing in a sweat shop in Manhattan.

Those people worked hard and if they didn't, they starved which is a great incentive to work.
I bought my first house in about 1979 and New York houses In New York City aren't cheap. I did that by working and doing side jobs almost every day.

I worked hard and made a lot of money and don't want anything for nothing especially the Government. Remember the Government doesn't have any money. It is our money and they give it away like water to people who are to lazy to work.

That chart says the average price of a house in 1975 was $40,000.00. Here in NY I paid twice that. And I made every nickel myself. I also paid for my wedding and NY weddings ain't cheap.

Like I said, money is all over the place, you just need to get up and make it. It is not going to fall in your pocket by playing video games and waiting for someone to give it to you.

Today most people have a new car and their parents buy it for them. I just about built my first car and didn't get a new car for many years after I was married.

I used to buy junk cars, fix them up and re sell them. Here I am at about 16 on the roof in the back with a Simca car I bought for ten bucks. I sold it for probably $75.00 or $100.00. I bought a lot of cars like that.

I didn't even have a license yet here.

Like I said, money was easy but you have to go after it.

 

[vlangel]

Yes it is. It just started coming out today for feedings and I am sure tomorrow he will be out constantly. But he is the size of a nickel.

My tomini tang is the biggest fish in my 56 gallon display. He is almost the size of a silver dollar but I expect that is his full size. Since all my other fish are smaller and he is sleek and graceful, he is the most eye catching fish I have.

 

[i cant think]

My tomini tang is the biggest fish in my 56 gallon display. He is almost the size of a silver dollar but I expect that is his full size. Since all my other fish are smaller and he is sleek and graceful, he is the most eye catching fish I have.

How big is he? Inches is a better way of saying, also 56g is rather small for these guys.
I have a Binotatus in a 4’ tank and even that feels on the small side for him (Although he still has the room).

 

[ying yang]

Just googled how big a silver dollar is ( I'm english so no clue at all ) and says just tiny bit over an inch at 26mm diameter so think your tomini tang still got some growing to do @vlangel unless a silver dollar is 6-7 inches etc

 

[i cant think]

Just googled how big a silver dollar is ( I'm english so no clue at all ) and says just tiny bit over an inch at 26mm diameter so think your tomini tang still got some growing to do @vlangel unless a silver dollar is 6-7 inches etc

In captivity it’s expected the most of the bristletooth genus will stay 4-5 inches and not get much larger. But that Tomini certainly has some size to push if he’s only 2.6cm (1 inch).

 

[vlangel]

How big is he? Inches is a better way of saying, also 56g is rather small for these guys.
I have a Binotatus in a 4’ tank and even that feels on the small side for him (Although he still has the room).

You are correct in that a 70 gallon is what Live Aquaria recommends. I knew I was pushing the minimum limits and I would have rehomed it if it acted stressed. Tominis are bristletooth tangs that forage for detritus so do not seem to require as much open water as other tangs. I have had it almost 2 years and it acts very well adjusted. It is probably a 3" fish. He is one of my favorites.

 

[i cant think]

You are correct in that a 70 gallon is what Live Aquaria recommends. I knew I was pushing the minimum limits and I would have rehomed it if it acted stressed. Tominis are bristletooth tangs that forage for detritus so do not seem to require as much open water as other tangs. I have had it almost 2 years and it acts very well adjusted. It is probably a 3" fish. He is one of my favorites.

I will say, whilst their diet says they don’t need extra room, they really do suffice from it. Ideally once they get 2.5-3 inch you want a 4’ tank long term.
My binotatus is almost 3 years old and he uses all of my tank, none of it gets ignored.

 

[vlangel]

Just googled how big a silver dollar is ( I'm english so no clue at all ) and says just tiny bit over an inch at 26mm diameter so think your tomini tang still got some growing to do @vlangel unless a silver dollar is 6-7 inches etc

Actually my tomini may be closing in on close to 4" including it's tail. It's not grown much since I got it, (perhaps because it is in a smallish tank) but has filled out nicely. It was a bit thin in the lfs and had been there several months.

 

[ying yang]

Actually my tomini may be closing in on close to 4" including it's tail. It's not grown much since I got it, (perhaps because it is in a smallish tank) but has filled out nicely. It was a bit thin in the lfs and had been there several months.

Cool no problem,was just having trouble thinking size off a silver dollar would be 6-7 inches as would fill my hand up and would need extra large tills at shops to keep them in ha ha.
Yeah maybe you right about size of your fish as In a smaller tank as from a young age,I've heard fish grow according to their tank size, how true this is idk tbh,also not sure on this but heard if keep fish in small tank,it doesn't grow to its potential but its organs do which then can damage the fish or something like this,is it true or not idk or is it just what someone said and keeps getting repeated so then everyone thinks it's true which happens with alot of stuff in life, even more so with Internet ^_^

 

[vlangel]

Cool no problem,was just having trouble thinking size off a silver dollar would be 6-7 inches as would fill my hand up and would need extra large tills at shops to keep them in ha ha.
Yeah maybe you right about size of your fish as In a smaller tank as from a young age,I've heard fish grow according to their tank size, how true this is idk tbh,also not sure on this but heard if keep fish in small tank,it doesn't grow to its potential but its organs do which then can damage the fish or something like this,is it true or not idk or is it just what someone said and keeps getting repeated so then everyone thinks it's true which happens with alot of stuff in life, even more so with Internet ^_^

I never heard that about the fish stops growing but it's organs do not. That is interesting and sounds plausible. I would hate to think of that happening. Hopefully Tommy, my tomini is pretty much full size and won't suffer that fate!

 

[Argentum]

First, Tomini tangs are awesome fish. I had a small/med sized one in a 54 corner tank for a little over a year before I was forced to sell the livestock and live rock and take the tank down due to a move across several states. Loved that little guy, hard working and always active!

Second, I remember reading about Paul's tank back around 2000 or 2001 when I started reefing in college and always was impressed with how he kept it going for so long. It really drove home the importance of stability!

I'm so glad to see that both Paul and his tank are still going strong!

 

[ying yang]

I never heard that about the fish stops growing but it's organs do not. That is interesting and sounds plausible. I would hate to think of that happening. Hopefully Tommy, my tomini is pretty much full size and won't suffer that fate!

Yeah wouldn't be nice on fish if was true.
I've read it a few times on here when someone asking what size fish for a tank and sone feel it's to small and mention this and compressed organs and stunted growth and the likes, so researched it a bit,some articles and threads later I still none the wiser ha ha.
And just go on the basis of generally accepted tank sizes for certain fish and try make tank suitable for it with the aquascaor and watch fish to see if it seems stressed etc