Tank birthday, 47+ years

[Paul B]

Tomorrow I am going for acupuncture. I have a very Manly degenerative disk and if you live long enough and do more than carry protest signs and text, you may also get these old people things. Anyway almost all of your nerves go right next to your disks which were actually a mistake when they designed us because those disks are not really built too well. They are alright for the first 50 years but not so much after that.
I think pressure treated wood would have been better.

Our nerves should have been designed to go through aluminum tubes outside our body away from those disks. But I wasn't there when Al Gore invented nervous systems.
Anyway, when disks start to bulge or corrode they give you all sorts of problems depending on which nerves they press on. If it's your ear lobe nerve, you can get your ears pierced without any pain, but I don't do earrings.
It's not the end of the world and I can still do backflips. But only once.

I really don't believe in acupuncture, chiropractors, faith healers, witch doctors, herbalists, etc. I also don't have a lot of trust in real doctors unless you have an arrow sticking out of your head. If that is the case, they will know immediately what code to put on the form to send to your insurance company.
But my wife goes to this acupuncturist and she is kind of a Supermodel so I will try it. If nothing else at least I will be a little more porous, and poor as insurance companies frown on acupuncture. :rolleyes:

 

[chris85]

Hey paul just wanted to let you know I have been tagging along for about two weeks and finished you thread with all post and articles and wow!! I have a few questions I would like to ask you would you rather me pm you or just post on here?

 

[Paul B]

Post on here unless it is about like what color underwear I wear or the real color of my hair. :rolleyes:

 

[nagreen]

Paul, are vacationers to the Keys allowed to come see the tank? I think the Georgia Aquarium charges $35 for a visit, I assume your price is similar? :)

 

[chris85]

No underwear questions sorry. Besides you already told us the army didn't issue underwear, they say after doing something for 28 days it is a habit.

First off let me give you some background. My tanks are all natural, I live on the texas coast I started my tank with sand/ crushed sand stone/ shell( I have four tanks right now all connected together different substrates a 75, two40s, and a ten gallon)from here filled up my tank with sea water and most of my inhabitants are local critters. I collect fish food once a week which includes small fish, crabs, shrimp, pods, snails, and bivalves( clams, mussels, oysters) I dump a bunch in for the week and then blend and freeze the rest.

Anyway my first question is why don't you think a dsb is a good idea?

 

[beaslbob]

No, I have not seen the clingfish in a few weeks. I think it is time to crawl under the tank to see if he took a trip. :eek:

Floyd, absolutely no one from then is still on here that I recognize. I think most people abandon the hobby after two or three Tuesdays.

Sparta, I know you are here but were you on this thread at the beginning?.

Anyone else still here. Raise your hand. Higher :rolleyes:
Supposedly over 140,000 members looked at this thread for some odd reason, and so far only 4 of them are still around. :confused:
Weird. Maybe I am in this too long.:p

do I count?

 

[beaslbob]

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[Paul B]

Paul, are vacationers to the Keys allowed to come see the tank? I think the Georgia Aquarium charges $35 for a visit, I assume your price is similar? :)

If I were in the keys and carried my tank there the price would be much higher. But here in New York it is much cheaper. :rolleyes:

do I count?

At least to 4 you do. :D

Chris, I think a DSB is one of the stupidest ideas anyone has come up with in this hobby. I remember when they were invented and I said, boy, that is a stupid idea. ;Yuck
The theory is totally flawed, IMO. The thing is supposed to grow bacteria in the lower portions, which it does. The water is supposed to get down there by the movements of the creatures inhabiting the sand, and it does. But only for a little while. Those creatures are not that stupid and as soon as the oxygen disappears, the creatures can no longer get down there and why would they go there when all the oxygen is in the top layers? After the creatures decide to stay away or die of old age, those pores close up and everything there including anerobic bacteria dies. Even if they don't die, water can not get there because there is no place for it to flow so no De- nitrification can take place. I think that as the bottom layers become clogged, the bacteria move up to higher layers so there is some nitrate to process. I can't see the bacteria but I have common sense and know what mud looks like when it becomes compacted. I see it all the time in the tide pool where I collect. Also those bottom layers can very easily become full of hydrogen sulfide just as my tide pool does and when that happens, nothing lives including your fish. There is a very fine line between de-nitrification and hydrogen sulfide.

This layer of mud (in this picture) down about 1/2" is nice clean aerobic mud which I add to my tank. But just under that it is jet black and full of hydrogen sulfide. In the sea, that is no problem because the sea is large but in a tank, it will kill everything. This mud is very fine, much finer than you have in a tank, but after years in a tank, the spaces between the grains become compacted just like under these snails and you can easily get hydrogen sulfide.
It doesn't always happen but if you set it up correctly it can very easily happen and I would say it happened more often then not.
I think the small benefit you may get by reducing nitrates is overshadowed by the very real possibility of killing the tank with hydrogen sulfide.
You are never supposed to stir a DSB, that is why.
I only like things that can be maintained, things like your teeth, your car, your reverse undergravel filter, your garden etc.
I personally have not heard of a DSB tank lasting more than about 13 years which is about the life span of a hermit crab. There may be older ones, but I don't know of any. I think many more failed than thrived.

 

[nagreen]

If I were in the keys and carried my tank there the price would be much higher. But here in New York it is much cheaper. :rolleyes:

well I have no idea why I thought you lived in the keys.. hmm. Atleast I was close, right? :/

 

[Paul B]

Yes you were close. I do go there all the time as my closest friend has a condo there on the water. Him and his wife are up here now visiting us now. I wish I lived there. :D

 

[beaslbob]

Paul:

My take on deep sea beds (dsb) was much poo hooed, got me kicked off boards, and so on. But that was back in 2004 before tanks running deep sea beds started crashing after 5 years or so.

Assuming they are actually working, what you have is a low oxygen environment reducing nitrates to nitrites and finally to nitrogen gas being released through the sand. So at the surface you have a low oxygen environment, low nitrate environment with phosphates and co2. Exactly what cyano bacteria need to thrive. So after a few months all the sudden here comes the cyano. If not stopped the cyano consumes more and more phosphate further starving any algae (and corals) in the system. etc etc etc. So the tank rapidly becomes cyano dominated and a very poor environment for corals.

When they are not working, the anaerobic bacteria can actually (further) reduce the nitrites to ammonia.

So when working you feed cyano, when not working you actually recreate ammonia. Not a good method either way.

Meanwhile back at the refugium, Macro algae, and other algae like corraline, consumes ammonia first, then nitrates, plus phosphates and co2 while returning oxygen and fish/coral food.

So with the dsb fad, we kicked off beaslbob, and after a few years found out dsbs had problems and rediscovered algae methods.

But that's just my observations with no super models to back it up.

 

[chris85]

Thanks for the replies.

I have four dsb set up on one system I was just curious to why he doesn't like them. If I ever have a problem I can just cut that tank off.

I set them up with different substrates. One is mud from a marsh, one is beach sand which is really fine, another is sand and crushed shell, and then sand crushed shell and crushed sand stone. I also have a ugf on my reef tank with an inch of crushed shell. I went around the island and dug a hole until I hit the hydrogen sulfide and that is how I set my depth with the substrates. One has been going for almost six years. The others are about two years. I add about a pound of sand/marsh mud over the coarse of the year.

Do you think I can keep it live? I am going to try and see

I have done a ton of research on them I was just curious.

My second question is your diatom filter. It is pretty much lets just say a sand filter? You are just sucking out the junk in the water and just putting the water back in the tank? How many gallons per hour would you say that thing moves?

 

[Paul B]

AS I said a DSB may last 10 or 12 years which is the age of some of my socks.
My diatom filter just removes particles, nothing else and nothing diluted which is the best thing about it. I need it for my gravel so it doesn't become compacted. You don't need it for a DSB, for that you need prayers and a miracle. :eek:
I have no idea how many gallons it filters, I would assume about 800 GPH but I am guessing. As it clogs, it slows down.
Beasl old friend. I get flack from everything I say and although I wasn't booted off RC, I quit because of their silly practices that won't let you link to something so you can teach people. They don't want anyone to know there are other places to learn.
I still have friends there but prefer not to post there.
Many people on a few forums wish I would go away for my theories on quarantine, bacteria, parasites, UG filters, DSBs and Supermodels. I don't post on any forum to make friends. I try to teach what I have learned because I have been doing this for a while. I am never trying to start an argument but some people just like to argue. I made all the mistakes and killed more fish than Starkist Tuna, so I try to help people not make the same mistakes I did. :cool:

 

[chris85]

Hey thanks paul.

Now I know your socks don't last that long!!! You run around way to much. What do you do? Dip them in copper and garlic then wash them with ginger.

It's not for my dsb it is for my ugf and my local tank it only has a couple of inches in it that my pistol shrimp have piled up on the edges of the tank. The sands not bad but I'm sure the rocks are dirty on the inside.

How much domolite/gravel do you have on top of your u gf(inches)?

Do you have a link or something on how you built your skimmer?(diagram or something of what it looks like on the inside)

By the way I have a couple skilletfish(clingfish) for you if you send me paid postage box. I collect about ten a weekend. Thanks for your help!!;)

 

[Paul B]

Chris I don't have a thread about my skimmer. I built it so long ago I don't even remember when. There is a link somewhere on how I built the venture valve, probably on my very long tank thread here.
I love clingfish but never mail livestock. it comes dead because I am not home a lot to get the mail. :D

I have about 2" or 3" of dolomite on my UG filter

 

[tcarter1936]

This thread spans all subjects and it also has a couple of posts about fish, but the vast majority of it is about wasps, boats, illnesses, Paris Hilton, the Florida Keys, Jeeps and of course Supermodels
Lol you remind me of the author Carl hiasen if you havent read his books I think you'd like them

 

[Paul B]

Today it is going to be hot and humid so it is perfect collecting conditions. I have a new dinghy on the back of my boat and hopefully can collect more amphipods and mud. I don't think the tide will be right and I am to lazy to look up the tide tables so I am winging it. I am going anyway so it doesn't matter. If nothing else I will get to my favorite restaurant for some clams on the half shell.
I can still collect mud at high tide because there is mud all over the place, especially on my anchor but for amphipods I really need to be there at dead low tide because it is 8' deep at high tide.

My tank is doing well but I have been neglecting it a lot due to some health issues for me, my wife and our Grand Daughter. I myself am almost perfectly healthy, but our Grand Daughter has some issues.

 

[chris85]

Good luck bud have fun and be careful. Post some pics if you get anything cool. Wish you guys the best of luck I am sure everything will be ok soon.

I like to build my own stuff and am always looking for new ideas. I did see how you built both venturis I kind of like the needle wheels myself, but I don't have much experience with the veturis. I don't have much experience with the needle wheel either it has only been on line for a year or so maybe two. I ran the tank skimmerless for about three or four years and loved it, but xenia started taking over anyway, Just experimenting. I am trying to find a way around a skimmer (any thoughts) because I feel it take out to much plankton. I use to get barnacles, oysters, and other mollusk that grew because I dose about a gallon of seawater a week but I haven't see any since I put the skimmer on line. Any recommendations would be great.

I have to collect some fish food today too. I wish we got an eight foot tide here that would be awesome. Of coarse my house would be underwater, but then I wouldn't need an aquarium. How do you catch your pods? I use to use a tiny fishing pole now I just swish the rocks in a bucket of water. They also make a metal mesh coffee filter for like 5 bucks at the big box grocery store. Just turn drop the pump in the water turn the on a pump and let it go so you don't have to get out the boat if the water is to deep. You get more copepods, but still worth it.

Is there anything you can do for an egg bound goby? I woke up this morning and one of my local pregnant gobies was dead. She has been looking sluggish for the past few days but she was fat with eggs for a while now and eating everything she could get. My only guess is she was egg bound. I did an autopsy on her and everything looked good. I don't have a microscope so I didn't look for parasites, but everything else looked good. Besides my fish have a good immune system so I doubt it was that.

Well if you ever want to come to the texas gulf coast the offer stands for the clingfish. They are some of my favorites with their little tail wagging and always a smile on the face. We could go collect some oyster while we get your clingfish.

Thanks again paul.

 

[Paul B]

I would go with just an algae scrubber if I had the choice, I have both.
To collect amphipods I go to this tide pool at low tide and lift rocks and wood out of the mud and swish them in water in a bucket. Then back at my boat I keep pouring off the muddy water until it is fairly clean and dump that in my tank.
Tide pool



5 gallons of amphipods.

 

[Paul B]

Amphipod video