Tank is level but not sitting flush

[CaptainKiwi]

That stand looks fine to me, however I would chech a a cpouple of things.
1. Is the top flat with no dip at the center or crowning. Forget about the foam.
2 Check to see if the Tank is twisted by placing your level front to back on the left and right sides of the top of your tank. The bubble should be the same for both locations. Repeat along the front glass length pane and the rear pane. Make sure you use the narrow edge of the level.

Tank is empty of water and measuring along the tank on the top shows no dips or bulges of any kind. Measuring front to back on the left, right and middle shows the bubble in the same place. Measuring diagonally front to back from the left and right side also shows its level. Do I take the tank off the stand and remeasure?

 

[W31Olds]

You want to check the top of the stand not the tank for flatness. No dips or crowning.

 

[CaptainKiwi]

You want to check the top of the stand not the tank for flatness. No dips or crowning.

Ah ok, will do that tomorrow but I am pretty confident there is none. If the stand has no issue with it, then the only thing that could be wrong is the tank right?

 

[W31Olds]

Yes, tank leaking due to poor quality. Visually your stand looks fine, so I always suspected the Tank. MFR is making excuses for his mistake.

 

[Euphyllia098]

Most all rimless tanks these days come with foam attached to the bottom. This is to compensate for a surface that is not completely flat. I'm really surprised they recommended plastic.

Someone else explained that level and flat are 2 completely different things. You can be completely flat and not level and vice versa.

Who's the tank manufacturer?

 

[CaptainKiwi]

Most all rimless tanks these days come with foam attached to the bottom. This is to compensate for a surface that is not completely flat. I'm really surprised they recommended plastic.

Someone else explained that level and flat are 2 completely different things. You can be completely flat and not level and vice versa.

Who's the tank manufacturer?

A local manufacturer I found, they had really good reviews and a few of them too so I trusted that

 

[CaptainKiwi]

Yes, tank leaking due to poor quality. Visually your stand looks fine, so I always suspected the Tank. MFR is making excuses for his mistake.

In fairness, they have said they would collect it, reseal it and send it back at no extra cost so its not the end of the world, its just been a headache trying to work out how something that reads level in every way its measured - with the tank, without the tank, on the tank, on the stand - somehow isn't sitting flush. Oh well...

 

[Euphyllia098]

In fairness, they have said they would collect it, reseal it and send it back at no extra cost so its not the end of the world, its just been a headache trying to work out how something that reads level in every way its measured - with the tank, without the tank, on the tank, on the stand - somehow isn't sitting flush. Oh well...

Just get the stand level, and put some foam under it. The foam will conform to the surface of the top of your stand and provide a nice flat surface for your tank supporting the entire bottom surface, which is needed on a rimless tank.

With rimmed tanks the flatness is much less of a factor as the tank sits on and is supported by the rim.

 

[UncommonSense]

In fairness, they have said they would collect it, reseal it and send it back at no extra cost so its not the end of the world

Let’s pause for a moment here…

First off, this whole scenario is absolutely aweful! I’m so sorry…

My observations:

— The tank is built like no other rimless tank I’ve ever seen… the short side panels are on top of the bottom pane, not outside it!

See the seam between panes here:

— now, back to the manufacturer “resealing” it…. Unless they plan to completely disassemble this aquarium to glass panes, clean all old silicone off thoroughly, then reassemble it; they are putting a band-aid on a structural failure. (This also ignores the unusual construction choice of putting the short panes on top of the bottom pane, meaning the panes are too small now to be reassembled correctly!)

— this stand design should be well suited to this tank, @RocketEngineer , would you be willing to confirm?

— I’m immediately suspicious of how the manufacturer is handling this situation…

 

[CaptainKiwi]

In fairness, they have said they would collect it, reseal it and send it back at no extra cost so its not the end of the world, its just been a headache trying to work out how something that reads level in every way its measured - with the tank, without the tank, on the tank, on the stand - somehow isn't sitting flush. Oh well...

Just get the stand level, and put some foam under it. The foam will conform to the surface of the top of your stand and provide a nice flat surface for your tank supporting the entire bottom surface, which is needed on a rimless tank.

With rimmed tanks the flatness is much less of a factor as the tank sits on and is supported by the rim.

This is what I did before filling the tank with water though (as in getting the stand level, making sure the foam on the stand is level) and there was still issues with the tank sitting flush. I feel like I should have gone rimmed now, in hindsight would have made my life a lot easier.

 

[CaptainKiwi]

In fairness, they have said they would collect it, reseal it and send it back at no extra cost so its not the end of the world

Let’s pause for a moment here…

First off, this whole scenario is absolutely aweful! I’m so sorry…

My observations:

— The tank is built like no other rimless tank I’ve ever seen… the short side panels are on top of the bottom pane, not outside it!

See the seam between panes here:

— now, back to the manufacturer “resealing” it…. Unless they plan to completely disassemble this aquarium to glass panes, clean all old silicone off thoroughly, then reassemble it; they are putting a band-aid on a structural failure. (This also ignores the unusual construction choice of putting the short panes on top of the bottom pane, meaning the panes are too small now to be reassembled correctly!)

— this stand design should be well suited to this tank, @RocketEngineer , would you be willing to confirm?

— I’m immediately suspicious of how the manufacturer is handling this situation…

Well this is not at all comforting to hear given the money I have spent on the tank! I can confirm whether their reseal will include the steps you have outlined, but are you saying fundamentally the tank is constructed in a way that is not structurally sound?

 

[UncommonSense]

Well this is not at all comforting to hear given the money I have spent on the tank! I can confirm whether their reseal will include the steps you have outlined, but are you saying fundamentally the tank is constructed in a way that is not structurally sound?

I’m not a professional tank builder, so I cannot say with 100% confidence that this manufacturing choice is a critical flaw… only that it is extremely abnormal, compared to rimless tanks I’m accustomed to seeing!

Why don’t we ask a professional? — @Joe Glass Cages , what are your thoughts on building a rimless glass tank with the left/right side panes sitting on top of the bottom pane?

 

[Euphyllia098]

Let’s pause for a moment here…

First off, this whole scenario is absolutely aweful! I’m so sorry…

My observations:

— The tank is built like no other rimless tank I’ve ever seen… the short side panels are on top of the bottom pane, not outside it!

See the seam between panes here:

— now, back to the manufacturer “resealing” it…. Unless they plan to completely disassemble this aquarium to glass panes, clean all old silicone off thoroughly, then reassemble it; they are putting a band-aid on a structural failure. (This also ignores the unusual construction choice of putting the short panes on top of the bottom pane, meaning the panes are too small now to be reassembled correctly!)

— this stand design should be well suited to this tank, @RocketEngineer , would you be willing to confirm?

— I’m immediately suspicious of how the manufacturer is handling this situation…

That's a good point, I've not seen that before either. Good catch.

@CaptainKiwi while that foam should work, more commonly a foam more like a yoga mat is coming used. All of my tanks have come with is it already attached to the bottom. What you've got looks more like Styrofoam vs. a Polyethylene closed cell foam that is more dense and compact. They are usually like 5mm or so thick.

 

[CaptainKiwi]

That's a good point, I've not seen that before either. Good catch.

@CaptainKiwi while that foam should work, more commonly a foam more like a yoga mat is coming used. All of my tanks have come with is it already attached to the bottom. What you've got looks more like Styrofoam vs. a Polyethylene closed cell foam that is more dense and compact. They are usually like 5mm or so thick.

I have specific 25mm polystyrene insulation board under it, I had to use it otherwise it would void manufacturer warranty

 

[UncommonSense]

What you've got looks more like Styrofoam vs. a Polyethylene closed cell foam that is more dense and compact. They are usually like 5mm or so thick.

Interestingly, Glass Cages uses a thick polystyrene foam under their tanks as the standard factory option! — there is an optional upgrade to a thinner closed cell (neoprene?) foam, though…

I’m not surprised, this styrofoam is actually remarkably sturdy when weight is distributed over a large surface area of it!

 

[mcarroll]

Definitely a bummer, but sounds like you have a good tank maker if they're sticking with you through this. Fly-by-night seems like the rule these days.

IMO the tank and stand both look fine, but obviously something wasn't right. It happens – I don't feel like reading more into it is helping anything. Level and flat are both important, but flat is even more-so. Now that you have the difference more firmly in mind and while you have the time from the tank being redone, make sure the stand is spot on. No twists, nothing out of flat, center braces in place, et al. Good lumber is HARD to find, so double check there are no duds in your stand....a cross member with a slight crown, whatever.

Use "winding sticks" to see CLEARLY if there's any twist in a piece of lumber, a fish tank, or whatever:


I use several of these "rocket engineer" stands and as long as your is built to the design posted in the thread, I think you're fine. DOUBLE CHECK though. Adding a middle post to the stand is absolutely trivial, BTW, so why not do it? It can be removed and the replaced as-needed if you need to get a sump in/out.

 

[NE reefer]

Try thick polyurethane camper tape under the foam pad. Extra on the end with the gap

 

[Joe Glass Cages]

I’m not a professional tank builder, so I cannot say with 100% confidence that this manufacturing choice is a critical flaw… only that it is extremely abnormal, compared to rimless tanks I’m accustomed to seeing!

Why don’t we ask a professional? — @Joe Glass Cages , what are your thoughts on building a rimless glass tank with the left/right side panes sitting on top of the bottom pane?

thanks @UncommonSense

read this entire thread.

there is a dramatic difference between thinking and knowing.

the process of proper setup is also to eliminate all potential factors of a failure prior to the tank getting wet.

just a first thought list below....
- following manufactures setup process
- respecting manufactures warranty requirements
- can the foundation handle the weight
- can the floor handle the weight
- is the floor level
- is the floor flat
- are you setting up on the solid surface of the floor (not on carpet)
- construction of the stand
- what standards were used to build the stand
- all stand joints inspected and solid
- stand build that will now allow any swaying
- is stand level
- is stand flat (using a straight edge or string form corner to opposing corner) MUST be flat
- using manufacturer suggested pad

All of this needs to happen prior to filling the tank. The tank cannot handle anything being out and all of the seams could be compromised. Fixing any of above after the tank has water in it, is really too late.

to the question about construction. I have seen this type of construction before. We build a different way. Doesn't mean either are right or wrong. That is really a question for the manufacture.

 

[CaptainKiwi]

thanks @UncommonSense

read this entire thread.

there is a dramatic difference between thinking and knowing.

the process of proper setup is also to eliminate all potential factors of a failure prior to the tank getting wet.

just a first thought list below....
- following manufactures setup process
- respecting manufactures warranty requirements
- can the foundation handle the weight
- can the floor handle the weight
- is the floor level
- is the floor flat
- are you setting up on the solid surface of the floor (not on carpet)
- construction of the stand
- what standards were used to build the stand
- all stand joints inspected and solid
- stand build that will now allow any swaying
- is stand level
- is stand flat (using a straight edge or string form corner to opposing corner) MUST be flat
- using manufacturer suggested pad

All of this needs to happen prior to filling the tank. The tank cannot handle anything being out and all of the seams could be compromised. Fixing any of above after the tank has water in it, is really too late.

to the question about construction. I have seen this type of construction before. We build a different way. Doesn't mean either are right or wrong. That is really a question for the manufacture.

Hi Joe,

Apologies for the late reply, thats a super detailed list. In regards to everything mentioned:

- I followed everything the manufacturer said regarding the warranty and it is valid.
- I have consulted 2 engineers and both have said both the foundation and floor can handle the weight.
- The floor is slightly unlevel but it is definitely flat.
- It is sitting on a solid part.
- The stand was build by a carpenter using rocket engineers designs.
- All joints are properly supported.
- The stand is definitely level, I have not used a piece of string to see the flatness but I have a guarantee from the carpenter that it is
- I used manufacturer pad

I double checked all of this before I filled with water, and then when I filled with water the tank leaked. The manufacturers are adamant that it is the stand that is unsuitable for the weight and is bowing cause the tank to leak and are therefore refusing to help with any additional moving costs, but I am very certain that it is not. Everyone on here has put larger tanks on stands of this design and I have my carpenters guarantee it will hold a ton.

 

[W31Olds]

Captain, this is the problem with Stands not built by the Manufacturer. It gives them an excuse and easy way to deny any problem on their end. If that piece of Styrofoam is what they supplied as a pad, that would be a red flag for me. That stand looks fine to me. What are do they consider adequate, steel I-beams. Probably a good thing this happened before you added livestock, because it might have leaked anytime. Look at my inexpensive 60 gallon breeder QT Tank stand in my basement. Not pretty, but it works.