Test results are in and its not looking good! Any advice?

[Ralph Ritoch]

Is there any way you can collect your water from a couple (or more) miles from shore? I think that would probably take care of the Ammonia issue for you - it is almost certainly coming from the run-off from land.

FWIW - you DO NOT need a skimmer or sump. I ran a 60g cube for 22 years using a canister filter and a HOB filter. Nothing more. You will find that your hydrometer is just fine. They tend to be off a bit one way or the other, but consistency is way more important than any exact number. If you can run a fan across the top surface it will hepl to cool things quite a bit. That will increase the dissolved oxygen in the water and by default make things easier for any life you have in there. I, too, would suggest getting rid of the FW "stones" you have. They contribute nothing and could possibly leach harmful chemicals into the water. In easy way to increase oxygen levels in the water is to point a power head up towards the surface to agitate it. The more, the better, as long as it's not spilling over the top! You might alos try collecting sand from a couple hundred yards out so that what you have is actually live. That, too, will help get your cycle going.

If I had access to real ocean water I'd never buy salt again! Once again, I will bet that the Ammonia is due to the FW runoff and not the ocean water itself. Collect it further from shore and that issue will go away all on it's own.

I wish you all the luck in the world! Please feel free to PM me too if I can be of any help. I want you to succeed!!!

Taking water from far offshore is exactly what the guy coaching me suggested but so far I've been unable to find a fisherman to do it. It still feels like cheating though since it doesn't actually solve the problem, it just avoids the problem.

 

[Uptightjoker]

I think some people participating here need to take a deep breath and relax for a minute.

Ralph,

Things may not look good, but just stay calm and take it one step at a time, you said you have a one on one mentor, and I hope they're helping you well. I am far from an expert but since the point of cycling a tank is to build up bacteria that helps remove ammonia, I'd think that some ammonia in your water change water wouldn't be a huge issue once your tank is fully cycled. If you get your tank down to 0, and your water change water is .25,and you do a 10% water change, that should only be .025 overall, and your bacteria should be able to handle that, but I think until your tank is fully cycled and at that point it'd probably be best to use RO water and store-bought salt.

The biggest thing to remember is that anything can be fixed with enough time patience, and money, but there is only so much you can do immediately, and once you've done all you can do you just have to wait, and hope until there is more to do. Worrying and trying to do more than is reasonable isn't going to help you, or the tank. You can fix this, chances are there are going to be losses, but it's all a learning experience, and will make you better for the future.

 

[Bill_Moorman]

This is the best July Fools thread I’ve ever read.

It’s a joke, right?

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I think some people participating here need to take a deep breath and relax for a minute.

Ralph,

Things may not look good, but just stay calm and take it one step at a time, you said you have a one on one mentor, and I hope they're helping you well. I am far from an expert but since the point of cycling a tank is to build up bacteria that helps remove ammonia, I'd think that some ammonia in your water change water wouldn't be a huge issue once your tank is fully cycled. If you get your tank down to 0, and your water change water is .25,and you do a 10% water change, that should only be .025 overall, and your bacteria should be able to handle that, but I think until your tank is fully cycled and at that point it'd probably be best to use RO water and store-bought salt.

The biggest thing to remember is that anything can be fixed with enough time patience, and money, but there is only so much you can do immediately, and once you've done all you can do you just have to wait, and hope until there is more to do. Worrying and trying to do more than is reasonable isn't going to help you, or the tank. You can fix this, chances are there are going to be losses, but it's all a learning experience, and will make you better for the future.

Thanks. This seems like a conundrum that to lower the ammonia level I need to raise bacteria, and to raise the bacteria I need to increase the ammonia. Right now I'm trying to culture some bacteria in a reserve of saltwater for the next and future water changes. I have fed it with some dead shrimp and sinking fish food. My goal is to get to the point where I can get ammonia free water from this reserve for water changes and then replace it with new ocean water. My theory is that this will avoid a nitrogen cycle in the tank every time I change the water, and it will also provide a way to raise bacteria for the tank without raising its ammonia levels high enough to kill the fish and corals currently in it. Instead of having the nitrogen cycle in the tank, it will happen in this reserve tank. I don't currently have any spare porous live rock and don't want to interfere with the current cycling of the tank. Most of the rock in the ocean here is very dense, probably useless for this purpose so I'm using dry coral and hoping enough bacteria from the transferred filter media will be enough to get things started. There is also a small amount of live sand in the reserve tank so there are a number of possible places that the bacteria can grow in this reserve tank. This isn't something I could have done previously as I just received the water testing kit today so I would have had no way to create an artificial nitrogen cycle.

 

[Jonathan Troutt]

Thanks. This seems like a conundrum that to lower the ammonia level I need to raise bacteria, and to raise the bacteria I need to increase the ammonia. Right now I'm trying to culture some bacteria in a reserve of saltwater for the next and future water changes. I have fed it with some dead shrimp and sinking fish food. My goal is to get to the point where I can get ammonia free water from this reserve for water changes and then replace it with new ocean water. My theory is that this will avoid a nitrogen cycle in the tank every time I change the water, and it will also provide a way to raise bacteria for the tank without raising its ammonia levels high enough to kill the fish and corals currently in it. Instead of having the nitrogen cycle in the tank, it will happen in this reserve tank. I don't currently have any spare porous live rock and don't want to interfere with the current cycling of the tank. Most of the rock in the ocean here is very dense, probably useless for this purpose so I'm using dry coral and hoping enough bacteria from the transferred filter media will be enough to get things started. There is also a small amount of live sand in the reserve tank so there are a number of possible places that the bacteria can grow in this reserve tank. This isn't something I could have done previously as I just received the water testing kit today so I would have had no way to create an artificial nitrogen cycle.

The majority of the denitrification process happens in the rock and the sand. Not just in the water column.

 

[Shluffer]

Bacteria can grow on glass.

Departing from my own advice and giving advice, get a few sponges (check the qt thread for which ones) to host bacteria. You can use them to jumpstart the cycle for future batches as well as grow bacteria for your main tank if you are adviced by your coach to use something which slows the buildup. I would age the water and only use half each time while refilling with new water to age.

BTW, I use RODI. For my coral qt I control amonIA and other nasties hy doing 50% to 75 % water changes daily.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Bacteria can grow on glass.

Departing from my own advice and giving advice, get a few sponges (check the qt thread for which ones) to host bacteria. You can use them to jumpstart the cycle for future batches as well as grow bacteria for your main tank if you are adviced by your coach to use something which slows the buildup. I would age the water and only use half each time while refilling with new water to age.

BTW, I use RODI. For my coral qt I control amonIA and other nasties hy doing 50% to 75 % water changes daily.

Are you talking about live sponge or filter media? The bioball I dropped in the tank has a small sponge in it but I still have a good amount of leftover filter media available. If you are talking about live sponge, the sponge growing in my tank is small and moves around, sometimes its hard to find. It isn't very big and came from the live sand.

 

[Ligeia]

Taking water from far offshore is exactly what the guy coaching me suggested but so far I've been unable to find a fisherman to do it. It still feels like cheating though since it doesn't actually solve the problem, it just avoids the problem.

Are you sure? I went out with tons of fishermen in the Philippines that were happy to get a little extra cash. You have such pristine, plankton-rich water where you are, I'm envious!

Also, people need to chill on this thread. I don't think Ralph isn't listening, he just seems to be panicking a little about his situation AS WE ALL HAVE! That said, do try to listen to the advice people are giving you, they know what they're talking about!

I'd hate to see R2R start looking like Reefcentral. We have a good community here! No need to make it toxic.

 

[Tamberav]

I'm in a situation where it takes up to a month to get supplies shipped in. This is offset by the fact that I have an unlimited supply of ocean water, live sand, and RO water. The test kit I ordered just came in today. Being new to this and not having a good supply chain doesn't give good odds on the survival of this coral, plus it was already dying when I received it. I am shocked by the PH level which is actually the same as the ocean here, 8.4. The ocean water I'm using already has ammonia in it so while the PH level is acceptable I'm going to be re-introducing ammonia at every water change. Currently my ammonia level isn't much higher than the source water and its reasonable to believe that within one or two weekly water changes the ammonia level of the source water will be higher than the tank water.

I just retested the ammonia and the Prime + water change dropped the level to 0.25 ppm based on the salt water chart I found online. This is a freshwater kit but I found sources which claim the only difference in the tests is the color of the results.

My pH is 8.47 in the day. I wouldn't worry about the pH.

APO test kit often reads false positive ammonia of 0.25. Don't plants love using ammonia? What about adding some live plants? Any in the ocean there that could survive?

Do you have freshwater supplies there? A bag of carbon put in an area of flow would be nice to remove any toxins in the ocean water.

Your coral will slowly die without proper light.... It's starving.

I am sure there is some sort of powerful light there. It's only a 30g tank so you don't need anything crazy. My first tank had PC light fixture...white and blue bulbs. If people grow plants there then you should have access to t5s even if you don't have reef bulbs corals can grow fine under daylight bulbs and just look brown.

If you do get new lighting...hang it high and lower it slowly...even though better lighting is a good thing...the coral can be shocked by the sudden change.

It's kind of pointless to find upgrades after 6 months if the coral needs them now to live. Light...flow and carbon is a good place to start.

As far as ammonia...you could set up a tub to 'cycle' the water in...maybe with media or a sponge filter or maybe a heavily planted treatment tank?? Since plants can absorb ammonia?

I am trying to think of stuff you have access to naturally and a little outside the normal reefing box.

 

[Shluffer]

Are you talking about live sponge or filter media? The bioball I dropped in the tank has a small sponge in it but I still have a good amount of leftover filter media available. If you are talking about live sponge, the sponge growing in my tank is small and moves around, sometimes its hard to find. It isn't very big and came from the live sand.

Filter media. A cheap sponge or a sponge filter.

 

[Rilo]

Thanks. This seems like a conundrum that to lower the ammonia level I need to raise bacteria, and to raise the bacteria I need to increase the ammonia. Right now I'm trying to culture some bacteria in a reserve of saltwater for the next and future water changes. I have fed it with some dead shrimp and sinking fish food. My goal is to get to the point where I can get ammonia free water from this reserve for water changes and then replace it with new ocean water. My theory is that this will avoid a nitrogen cycle in the tank every time I change the water, and it will also provide a way to raise bacteria for the tank without raising its ammonia levels high enough to kill the fish and corals currently in it. Instead of having the nitrogen cycle in the tank, it will happen in this reserve tank. I don't currently have any spare porous live rock and don't want to interfere with the current cycling of the tank. Most of the rock in the ocean here is very dense, probably useless for this purpose so I'm using dry coral and hoping enough bacteria from the transferred filter media will be enough to get things started. There is also a small amount of live sand in the reserve tank so there are a number of possible places that the bacteria can grow in this reserve tank. This isn't something I could have done previously as I just received the water testing kit today so I would have had no way to create an artificial nitrogen cycle.

The purpose of the nitrogen cycle is to safely convert ammonia-nitrate in our main reef tanks.

Fish produce ammonia so if you never complete the nitrogen cycle in your main reef display there will always be levels of ammonia in the tank. Fighting the purpose of your idea. You want to complete the nitrogen cycle in your reef tank.

This will create a stressful environment for any living thing so you'd want to remove livestock from your reef. Since rehoming isn't an option Quarantining should be. Setup another tank. Add some water that matches the salinity of the water the fish are in currently, a heater, an airstone or something to create water movement, and finally some pvc piping to create safe spots for them. No rock.

 

[NPRW]

So ammonia no nitrite.. Is there a reason you haven't dosed bacteria?
Also why do you run it so hot?
And I reckon try a different water source as well that's estuary water.

 

[Sako338]

So ammonia no nitrite.. Is there a reason you haven't dosed bacteria?
Also why do you run it so hot?
And I reckon try a different water source as well that's estuary water.

Following

 

[BestMomEver]

OK everyone... this is my opinion...

1) Be nice. If the OP didn't want help, he would not have asked. Yes, there are trolls around but he has asked twice (or more) so he's most likely legit.
2) Be nice. It sounds to me like the OP is doing what he can. He doesn't have RODI unit and a bucket of salt because there is nowhere he can get it.
3) Be nice. I think he said the LFS had a bunch of sick and dying livestock that the OP was trying to help. His intentions are good.
4) Be nice. His tank is not doomed. That's a VERY discouraging thing to say. Whoever said that should be ashamed. We need to encourage and not discourage.
5) Be nice.
6) Be nice
7) Be nice.

 

[GThompson]

OK everyone... this is my opinion...

1) Be nice. If the OP didn't want help, he would not have asked. Yes, there are trolls around but he has asked twice (or more) so he's most likely legit.
2) Be nice. It sounds to me like the OP is doing what he can. He doesn't have RODI unit and a bucket of salt because there is nowhere he can get it.
3) Be nice. I think he said the LFS had a bunch of sick and dying livestock that the OP was trying to help. His intentions are good.
4) Be nice. His tank is not doomed. That's a VERY discouraging thing to say. Whoever said that should be ashamed. We need to encourage and not discourage.
5) Be nice.
6) Be nice
7) Be nice.

That southern hospitality is showing

 

[Jon Fishman]

His tank is not doomed. That's a VERY discouraging thing to say. Whoever said that should be ashamed.

OP said it.......

 

[BestMomEver]

OP said it.......

He said that other people said (probably in his first thread that his tank was doomed. If I misunderstood, I apologize.

 

[redwhiteandink]

If the tank is truly only 22 days old it isn't cycled yet and way too early for fish. You should order some type of bacteria to help with the ammonia cycle so your fish don't die or get gill burn from the tank cycling. Just test water params and keep up water changes every 3-5 days as needed

 

[TheGreatWave]

I think some people participating here need to take a deep breath and relax for a minute.

Ralph,

Things may not look good, but just stay calm and take it one step at a time, you said you have a one on one mentor, and I hope they're helping you well. I am far from an expert but since the point of cycling a tank is to build up bacteria that helps remove ammonia, I'd think that some ammonia in your water change water wouldn't be a huge issue once your tank is fully cycled. If you get your tank down to 0, and your water change water is .25,and you do a 10% water change, that should only be .025 overall, and your bacteria should be able to handle that, but I think until your tank is fully cycled and at that point it'd probably be best to use RO water and store-bought salt.

The biggest thing to remember is that anything can be fixed with enough time patience, and money, but there is only so much you can do immediately, and once you've done all you can do you just have to wait, and hope until there is more to do. Worrying and trying to do more than is reasonable isn't going to help you, or the tank. You can fix this, chances are there are going to be losses, but it's all a learning experience, and will make you better for the future.

I think some here should not be passive aggressive and say what is on their mind. You can give your advice without taking a shot at me.

That is what I think.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

If the tank is truly only 22 days old it isn't cycled yet and way too early for fish. You should order some type of bacteria to help with the ammonia cycle so your fish don't die or get gill burn from the tank cycling. Just test water params and keep up water changes every 3-5 days as needed

Thank you for the advice. I honestly had no idea that buying bacteria was an option. I'm no expert on Philippine import laws but it sounds like it would be illegal to import. Either way I'll hunt around for some. The water is coming from the ocean and the ammonia reading makes me think that there is a good chance that it doesn't have the required bacteria. I'm banking that any bacteria came from the liverock that I purchased from the fish store. For my reservoir I'm banking on some of that bacteria making it into the filter media that was transferred to the reservoir.

Final note, the water temperature is high because it is HOT here and there is no A/C in the room with the tank, at least not until after renovation in 6 months.