Test results are in and its not looking good! Any advice?

[Evan28395950]

This thread ;Hilarious

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Here is where I am at with the reservoir. The Ammonia level has dropped even though I haven't removed the dead shrimp. It is now just under 2.0 PPM. The water is about 30C so bacteria growth is highly speed up. I'm still going to dose the bacteria from API because I'm dealing with wild bacteria here and I consider the API bacteria an equivalent to pro-biotics for this tank.

The 10% of good advice on this thread was very helpful, but the Trolling and flat out lies and/or bad advice such as not adding an ammonia source to cycle a Tank when EVERY article on cycling a tank says to do so makes me HOSTILE!

 

[NPRW]

Here is where I am at with the reservoir. The Ammonia level has dropped even though I haven't removed the dead shrimp. It is now just under 2.0 PPM. The water is about 30C so bacteria growth is highly speed up. I'm still going to dose the bacteria from API because I'm dealing with wild bacteria here and I consider the API bacteria an equivalent to pro-biotics for this tank.

The 10% of good advice on this thread was very helpful, but the Trolling and flat out lies and/or bad advice such as not adding an ammonia source to cycle a Tank when EVERY article on cycling a tank says to do so makes me HOSTILE!

Keep dosing the bacteria every day until its gone, if you still haven't made nitrates get another bottle or try a different brand.

I don't think the problem was not dosing ammonia, it was using Prime to remove the ammonia before the cycle could begin.

You're on the right track now, bacteria will speed the cycle like you won't believe. Api has cycled me in about a week before.
My advice is to stop changing water until you get nitrates, let the tank do its thing. If you keep removing the ammonia youll kill the bacteria and start the cycle over again, which is what i think has been happening for 22 days. Worst case you might lose an animal in the process but better than slowly losing them all over 6mths - let the cycle happen.

As for salinity you're in the right range, there's no magic number. Pick one and stick with it - stability is key not chasing numbers.

Good luck

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Lastly the Ammonia level of the tank is finally in between 0ppm and 0.25ppm. This reading is after adding RO water to lower the salinity so there is no reason to believe the cycle is complete but the levels are certainly in a good range for the coral and fish. Raising the salinity wasn't an all-bad idea, but it was too high for these Torches which are likely used to the 1.018 ocean salinity reading. This tank is doing great... So here was the bad advice.

1. Don't add ammonia source to cycle the reservoir tank
2. Re-home the fish when there is no place to re-home them to (excluding the quarantine tank suggestion which was actually a great idea)
3. Raising the salinity to 1.024 when these coral are used to salinity MUCH lower than that (not so bad advice since it seems that the Torches are happy with 1.023 and I started at 1.022)
4. Get rid of everything and start over
5. Relying on some purchased item for an immediate problem when it will take up to a month for anything to get delivered (sump/protein skimmer) plus the special condition that this is an old house and the floor would probably collapse with more weight on it.
6. My all time favorite, blaming me, as if blaming me is going to change anything!!! Today is day 24 for me, I don't have years of salt water experience under my belt!

If you participated in any of the above than you need to re-evaluate your teaching methods!

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Now if anyone can provide any Empirical evidence or research that has passed peer review to show that the bad advice I have listed was actually good advice, I would love to hear it! Otherwise game over, you lose, the Tank won and is doing great!

 

[NPRW]

1.024 is in the range of pretty much every coral and invert, you could be right that the torches were likely used to 1.018 but for how long they survive is anyone's guess. I sit at 1.023 so I'm outside the perfect range myself but it's still close enough and more importantly STABLE.

Never heard of anyone running 1.018 before so you have more experience than some of us in that regard!

As for your reservoir tank maybe you could dose that with prime to get rid of inherent ammonia but that's as far as I'd go, focus on cycling your display tank. Its not the water itself you're cycling its the media and rock/sand places where the bacteria can hide and breed, that is the basis of cycling.
So keep dosing that bacteria mate you're heading in the right direction!

 

[NPRW]

I should add I cant speak for bad advice or trolls I can't control that. But i've given some pretty dang sound advice if you ask me. Something I can control.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Lastly thank you for the following advice.

1. Stop doing water changes for now
2. Buy better testing equipment
3. Dose with bacteria
4. Increase salinity level (Sure 1.024 with this hydrometer was too much but it was generally good advice)
5. Evaporate the 1.018 ocean water to increase its salinity

Sorry to anyone else I missed, but these are the big ones that really helped and that I remember right now.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I should add I cant speak for bad advice or trolls I can't control that. But i've given some pretty dang sound advice if you ask me. Something I can control.

Yeah, I added a new post to cover all of the good advice

I'm not so sure about the advice to stop using Prime but for now, sure. If the Ammonia spikes I won't think twice but will dose the Prime immediately. The life in the tank is my priority, not the bacteria.

 

[NPRW]

Lastly thank you for the following advice.

1. Stop doing water changes for now
2. Buy better testing equipment
3. Dose with bacteria
4. Increase salinity level (Sure 1.024 with this hydrometer was too much but it was generally good advice)
5. Evaporate the 1.018 ocean water to increase its salinity

Sorry to anyone else I missed, but these are the big ones that really helped and that I remember right now.

On salinity, 1.024 - 1.026 is the "golden range". But from what I gather anything over 1.022 is ideal.
I've seen shops running 1.020!
I'd say right now you're fine just let it go for 2-3 days and then checkup.
Also, I wouldn't put your torch opening down to a change in salinity, normally takes longer for these things to happen, and therefore changes to the chemistry should be taking longer as well.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

On salinity, 1.024 - 1.026 is the "golden range". But from what I gather anything over 1.022 is ideal.
I've seen shops running 1.020!
I'd say right now you're fine just let it go for 2-3 days and then checkup.
Also, I wouldn't put your torch opening down to a change in salinity, normally takes longer for these things to happen, and therefore changes to the chemistry should be taking longer as well.

I agree for the most part but this is a 39 gallon tank (custom made) and it isn't completely full so it could be anywhere from 37-38 gallons of water right now. The chemistry changes fast which right now is a good thing but with the levels coming under control stability is the primary goal.

Let me run this past you. What do you think about automating the water replacement once the reservoir is cycled? A slow drip from the reservoir to the tank and a slow drip from the tank to a waste bucket? This seems to be a good way to replenish trace elements but I'm not sure how well it would do at Nitrate removal.

 

[NPRW]

Yeah, I added a new post to cover all of the good advice

I'm not so sure about the advice to stop using Prime but for now, sure. If the Ammonia spikes I won't think twice but will dose the Prime immediately. The life in the tank is my priority, not the bacteria.

If you can get Prime easily enough that you can dose so much, I recommend you get a bottle of Stability (usually right next to it on the shelf. They really work hand in hand.

There should be no ammonia spike unless something dies and starts rotting. I think I speak for everyone when I say BACTERIA is more important to the longevity of your livestock, they are living animals after all.

Welcome to reefing bro lol

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

If you can get Prime easily enough that you can dose so much, I recommend you get a bottle of Stability (usually right next to it on the shelf. They really work hand in hand.

There should be no ammonia spike unless something dies and starts rotting. I think I speak for everyone when I say BACTERIA is more important to the longevity of your livestock, they are living animals after all.

Welcome to reefing bro lol

I bought the prime from the local fish store. It is probably the smallest fish store you have EVER seen. It is maybe 6 foot by 12 foot, has maybe 12 small tanks and one huge pond that extends out of the store. Prime is one of the only treatments they have. Everything they carry is basically ideal for A 10-75 gallon fresh water tank, I was fairly lucky they had the hydrometer and it looks like it was in storage for 10 years before I bought it.

 

[NPRW]

I agree for the most part but this is a 39 gallon tank (custom made) and it isn't completely full so it could be anywhere from 37-38 gallons of water right now. The chemistry changes fast which right now is a good thing but with the levels coming under control stability is the primary goal.

Let me run this past you. What do you think about automating the water replacement once the reservoir is cycled? A slow drip from the reservoir to the tank and a slow drip from the tank to a waste bucket? This seems to be a good way to replenish trace elements but I'm not sure how well it would do at Nitrate removal.

My other tank is a 15g that takes days to see any changes, I actually pride myself on on that because it means I'm stable, I feed heavily and dose 2 part.

There's a few ATO systems you can make work with your reservoir system. Check the diy section. I'd worry less about trace elements right now. To be honest a small top up with artificial sand should be enough trace for now.
Once your nitrates balance out you shouldn't have to worry too much about removal per se. There's a few special filters around and additives you can use, but for a temporary 6mth tank I'd just let the algae grow they'll bring your nitrates down lol.
Once you make your proper tank you can worry about that, if you cycle properly they won't be a problem after your 1 big water change. Then you can incorporate your drip method.

 

[NPRW]

I bought the prime from the local fish store. It is probably the smallest fish store you have EVER seen. It is maybe 6 foot by 12 foot, has maybe 12 small tanks and one huge pond that extends out of the store. Prime is one of the only treatments they have. Everything they carry is basically ideal for A 10-75 gallon fresh water tank, I was fairly lucky they had the hydrometer and it looks like it was in storage for 10 years before I bought it.

If they stock Seachem (Prime) I say get some Stability they use for fw as well. Provided you run out of quick start of course... They do the same thing

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

My other tank is a 15g that takes days to see any changes, I actually pride myself on on that because it means I'm stable, I feed heavily and dose 2 part.

There's a few ATO systems you can make work with your reservoir system. Check the diy section. I'd worry less about trace elements right now. To be honest a small top up with artificial sand should be enough trace for now.
Once your nitrates balance out you shouldn't have to worry too much about removal per se. There's a few special filters around and additives you can use, but for a temporary 6mth tank I'd just let the algae grow they'll bring your nitrates down lol.
Once you make your proper tank you can worry about that, if you cycle properly they won't be a problem after your 1 big water change. Then you can incorporate your drip method.

No shortage of algae right now. I have a red algae and a brown algae creeping up in my tank, very slowly. I'm keeping an eye on it because while it is beneficial now I'm quite certain its long term goals are different than mine, lol.

 

[NPRW]

OK good work. I take it you've noticed extra growth? I won't bore you with another lesson on cycling (LOL) but my advice is as follows.
Check nitrates now. Dose your bacteria for 2 more days. Check again. Basically you want it to be stable at whatever ppm it is.
Any drastic change and repeat the process. Once you have stable numbers do a massive water change and keep dosing your bacteria till its gone.

You should've led with the algae, your tank is more mature than we all thought!

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

OK good work. I take it you've noticed extra growth? I won't bore you with another lesson on cycling (LOL) but my advice is as follows.
Check nitrates now. Dose your bacteria for 2 more days. Check again. Basically you want it to be stable at whatever ppm it is.
Any drastic change and repeat the process. Once you have stable numbers do a massive water change and keep dosing your bacteria till its gone.

You should've led with the algae, your tank is more mature than we all thought!

Sorry, it will be another 2-3 weeks at least before I receive the Quick Start I ordered. So far I'm dealing with wild bacteria.

 

[NPRW]

Sorry, it will be another 2-3 weeks at least before I receive the Quick Start I ordered. So far I'm dealing with wild bacteria.

OK my advice is hold off on the water change, you're already in cycle so any change or dosing of Prime will basically put you back at day 1. Let it all balance by itself.
What kind of bacteria? Go to your fish shop they're bound to have some Stability or Quickstart or Nutrafin Cycle, they're immensely common.

Question, how did you cycle your old fw tanks?

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

OK my advice is hold off on the water change, you're already in cycle so any change or dosing of Prime will basically put you back at day 1. Let it all balance by itself.
What kind of bacteria? Go to your fish shop they're bound to have some Stability or Quickstart or Nutrafin Cycle, they're immensely common.

Question, how did you cycle your old fw tanks?

I never cycled the fresh water tanks, I just built a very large filter for it and used Prime after every water change. As for the Bacteria, it is whatever was in the fresh water filter that survived salt water, whatever the fish, coral, and liverock brought in, but mostly I used live sand for a week and the tank killed about 30 shrimp that apparently were cooked by the salinity since they weren't salt water shrimp.