Test results are in and its not looking good! Any advice?

[NPRW]

OK so you're doing the traditional fish cycle which could take another 1-3 weeks.
The good news is the bacteria is there and doing its job, just needs time to breed and catch up with the ammonia load. Your first changes and Prime would've helped with with the ammonia spike from those dead shrimp, and probably saved all your other fish!
If you keep dosing Prime now you'll be going through this struggle every time between water changes, if that makes sense? Extreme changing parameters (ammonia up and down, salinity changes nitrate spikes etc) is more stress than I'd like my fish under.

Dont panic youre doing fine. Youve been through the hard stage, just stick it out from here on.
Let the numbers settle give it until next week and see what youre reading by then. If you lose any stock by then, its likely they were about to die anyway.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Here is a high resolution image of the current state. You can see the filter on top with the UV Sterilizer. The Coral and the Algae. The star coral seems to also be slightly reduced either from the Red Algae or the Salinity but the lowered salinity could resolve that.

DSC_0703.JPG

drive.google.com

 

[NPRW]

Here is a high resolution image of the current state. You can see the filter on top with the UV Sterilizer. The Coral and the Algae. The star coral seems to also be slightly reduced either from the Red Algae or the Salinity but the lowered salinity could resolve that.

DSC_0703.JPG

drive.google.com

Your salinity is fine I'll tell you that much.

Looks fine to me! Just stick it out until you see stability in your results, changing all your parameters could be detrimental.
Wait until your ammonia and nitrates are at least stable then test for traces. Those corals will open up eventually if you keep your parameters stable.
Like you said they've all been at 1.018 for 3 weeks! Give them time to adjust.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Your salinity is fine I'll tell you that much.

Looks fine to me! Just stick it out until you see stability in your results, changing all your parameters could be detrimental.
Wait until your ammonia and nitrates are at least stable then test for traces. Those corals will open up eventually if you keep your parameters stable.
Like you said they've all been at 1.018 for 3 weeks! Give them time to adjust.

I brushed off a little of the red algae with a toothbrush and there are living polyps under it. The algae is clearly oppressing them a bit. Hopefully this will give the polpys a temporary advantage over the algae.

 

[NPRW]

I brushed off a little of the red algae with a toothbrush and there are living polyps under it. The algae is clearly oppressing them a bit. Hopefully this will give the polpys a temporary advantage over the algae.

Yes manual removal is a great idea while most of the polyps are likely closed

 

[CatfishCatfish]

I only just joined this forum today and this is the second thread I have read. I am feeling a little hesitant to contribute, because I really don’t want to be on the receiving end of hostility and defensive reactions which seem to be floating around here, both by the OP and others. I must say it hasn’t been a very good introduction to the forum and one of the main reasons I avoid reef forums altogether. I had to question whether this whole thread was a joke at different points throughout the discussion, but the OP seems to be genuine.

I note from reading the comments, that no one has mentioned the impact temperature may be having on this system cycling successfully. Ralph, I understand you are being bombarded with information (all of which is sound I might add), and reef keeping has many variables to contend with. You are now being confronted with the first of many in your journey and I wish you all the success. However no one has mentioned the importance of a chiller. Fish generally speaking can tolerate a greater fluctuations in water conditions than corals and some corals are much more sensitive than others to fluctuations. In saying that, for your fish to be healthy and happy, they would do better in an environment as close as possible to what they would experience in the open ocean. I guess that is obvious logic, but awfully difficult to recreate and maintain. Ralph, you mentioned the water temperature in this tank is around 30 degrees c. Is that correct? If so you would benefit from sourcing a chiller, both for the health of the current livestock and certainly before considering adding more corals to your tank. I realise this is just yet another piece of equipment and advice (which I hope is received with the positive intentions which is intended), but I believe you will need one for long term success.

You might also consider looking at YouTube channels like BWS and Tidal gardens. They are packed with good advice from professionals in the field which might be helpful to you.

Wishing you every success

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I agree, may never get to the bottom of it otherwise. Just sad it took 9 pages to get moving in one direction

The window of opportunity for this ecosystem to survive was quite small. A lot of the early events which were beneficial were mostly luck. The shrimp were added simply to see if anything could survive in the salt water. The salt I used was wrong and played a role in killing the shrimp also. A 100% water change was done to ocean water and then Shrimp re-introduced. I added live sand and one of the dead shrimp remained in the tank for days because it had hidden itself in the sand. I'm confident that this series of unfortunate events, before the liverock was even added, triggered an initial bacterial growth in the filter. The fish, coral, and liverock were all introduced while some of the shrimp were still alive and their survival indicates that the bacteria had largely processed the ammonia from the dead shrimp. This early genesis which was completely accidental left open a small window for this tank to survive. The initial water changes with Prime brought the ammonia levels down even further, and the bacteria must have survived because I transferred some of the filter material to the reservoir which is cyclilng. The clownfish and starfish seem happy/active and while the coral are clearly stressed there is no new bleaching and the levels are all moving in the right direction. In 2 to 3 weeks the API Quick Start should arrive which will better ensure a good bacteria population. If all residents are still good at that point I'll upgrade to LED lighting and buy some extra live rock for the reservoir. Digital test kits will be ordered a month after. Frankly I can't just order everything now because if I did my wife would kill me and there would be no one who could save these fish. Seeing these clownfish happy and active is the only reason my wife is even OK with how much I spent so far I'm not going to go into any great detail of my financial situation but I'm a big believer in Murphy's law. Credit cards kept paid off, credit lines are at about 200% of my savings, and less than 2% of my assets are in financial markets. Eventually this tank will be run the same way, reducing the window of possible failure to a number so small that it couldn't reasonably happen in my lifetime. I started this at about a 1% chance of survival and I believe I'm now at around 65%, when I get that number up to 99.9999% I'll be happy.

 

[ZaneTer]

On a completely unrelated note, is it possible to block all posts and threads from a user?

I may find myself in a scenario where I think a user is behaving in an entirely unwarranted and despicable manner and no longer wish to hear anything they have to say.

 

[KJones90s]

On a completely unrelated note, is it possible to block all posts and threads from a user?

I may find myself in a scenario where I think a user is behaving in an entirely unwarranted and despicable manner and no longer wish to hear anything they have to say.

Click the users name and there will be 3 small dots in the top right corner if you’re on mobile.
There will be an ignore/block option available.

 

[KJones90s]

Enjoying this thread by the way, glad to hear the tank is doing better.

 

[dopey]

Is the light situation not a problem? Only saw it mentioned early on.

When I was a kid I strapped together multiple flouresenct bulbs in a custom lid (couldn't afford compacts or halides). To achieve the "watts per gallon" ratio I read I needed. Shouldn't he be doing something to increase lighting? Either home made or purchase proper?

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Is the light situation not a problem? Only saw it mentioned early on.

When I was a kid I strapped together multiple flouresenct bulbs in a custom lid (couldn't afford compacts or halides). To achieve the "watts per gallon" ratio I read I needed. Shouldn't he be doing something to increase lighting? Either home made or purchase proper?

Sure you are probably right but that isn't what this thread is about, this thread is about the water chemistry. I have plans to add more lighting but I don't have any plans to discuss it in this forum. The last thing I need is another week of trolling.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Couple of things. You may benefit from some additional water-circulation.

I would reconsider the (in this case) easier method of making your own saltwater rather than collecting NSW that isn’t able to be used “as-is”. The old saying “Dilution is the solution” works both ways...... by evaporating off water to get your NSW’s salinity to increase, you’re concentrating the pollutants that are already in the water.

API tests aside...... Starting with RODI and store-bought salt seems like it would take out a lot of unknowns that you are dealing with in the water you are collecting.


Once the tank is cycled and stable, and you can get a better idea of what is in the NSW in your area/collect elsewhere, then maybe start using it when doing water changes

 

[CatfishCatfish]

Further to my last comment, I realised I forgot to mention that most reef systems should aim for a temperature of 25.3 degrees c with rises and falls close within that range. Livestock tends to die off more rapidly in systems which rise in temperature than in systems which cool in temperature. In saying that, no reef system can live in a block of ice, and livestock is more likely to die off in most extreme changes in any environmental conditions.

It is important to keep in mind that it depends a great deal on the degree and rate of change. Nothing will grow and thrive in any extreme, but a little cooler in temperature, in that end of the extreme, is better than being too hot.

Has anyone really talked about the importance of flow? I know it has been mentioned, but with everything else the OP has been bombarded with, it may have been lost (like so many fundamental basics) in the rest of the discussion. Ralph, if you want to keep that those torches alive (on top of everything else like lighting, temperature and water parameters), you will need to address the issue of flow too.

I know it is a lot to take in all at once, but patience and perseverance is the key here.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Further to my last comment, I realised I forgot to mention that most reef systems should aim for a temperature of 25.3 degrees c with rises and falls close within that range. Livestock tends to die off more rapidly in systems which rise in temperature than in systems which cool in temperature. In saying that, no reef system can live in a block of ice, and livestock is more likely to die off in most extreme changes in any environmental conditions.

It is important to keep in mind that it depends a great deal on the degree and rate of change. Nothing will grow and thrive in any extreme, but a little cooler in temperature, in that end of the extreme, is better than being too hot.

Has anyone really talked about the importance of flow? I know it has been mentioned, but with everything else the OP has been bombarded with, it may have been lost (like so many fundamental basics) in the rest of the discussion. Ralph, if you want to keep that those torches alive (on top of everything else like lighting, temperature and water parameters), you will need to address the issue of flow too.

I know it is a lot to take in all at once, but patience and perseverance is the key here.

In the general case the Temperature issue may apply but we are talking about the same exact temperature that these Corals are exposed to in the wild. 30C is the temperature of the ocean where they are collected. As for flow, my flow is perfect for the size of my tank. I had a wavemaker that was far too powerful which I had to replace in days and had to direct at the dry coral (dead) so it wouldn't turn my entire tank into a cyclone, 39 Gallon tank NOW with 1000-3000 L/H. The 10000 L/H wavemaker tried to kill my tank.

 

[dopey]

That's only 7x to 20x. What are you aiming for?

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

That's only 7x to 20x. What are you aiming for?

I've read anywhere between 4x and 20x, but 67.8X was far too much. I'm happy with the flow of this wavemaker. At first I was trying to direct it between the corals but later found that they seemed to respond better when I put it low in the tank and pointed it up vs near the top pointing down towards them.

 

[dopey]

Ah my bad! I thought you were tossing the 1-3000 one. I was confused. Gotcha, tho some do run insane flow..I can imagine the sand storm it of caused with 10k lph.

I don't know what flow torches prefer, I'm sure it's a Google away or someone here can give tips. It's a balance between what they generally prefer and adjusting to your coral. Just don't expect to assess a change of flow in minutes, always give days/week(s) to evaluate a change and either positive or negative.

(Still suspect lighting to be crucial..did you ever say what your current lights are? Corals will slowly whither away with low lighting)

 

[Jon Fishman]

I like a lot of flow, but I don’t point powerheads directly at coral

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I like a lot of flow, but I don’t point powerheads directly at coral

Yeah, I had to edit that I meant the dry coral. Its a large dead coral that I had previously used in the fresh water tank. I actually think it was a torch. I have dreams of the torch populating it some day but I'm fairly confident that is impossible.