Test results are in and its not looking good! Any advice?

[Ralph Ritoch]

I may have missed this, but is there any way u can get a little further away from the river and then test the salinity?

This comes back to the limitations that annoy everyone but I don't travel without adequate security and I absolutely hate being on the ocean, espeically when there's no land in any direction! Sure, I love being on lakes where at least there is the illusion that you could swim to land but on the ocean there isn't any chance of survival outside the boat. There are a few logistical issues but I do plan on going to Paradiso within a few months so I can test the water there and see how it compares.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

You may not know it - but there is also a relationship between temperature and salinity. Depending on how your hydrometer is calibrated (what temp) - if you water is at 30 degrees C - you could have a difference of .002-.004 lower salinity.

Yes I have seen the charts. I originally was using them but once I came here and everyone measures salinity in SG I stopped worrying as much about exactness and focused more on the results. Evaporation in my tank is also a big problem. I put a fan over the tank to limit the temperature but that also increases evaporation. For now I test salinity daily and there are very few days I don't need to make some kind of adjustment.

 

[Rilo]

Summary of things which may now be missing due to moderation ...

1. Raise salinity to 1.024 (didn't work for me but may work in some cases)
2. Adjust temperature range (again, my coral are used to the temperature they are in from the wild so this isn't much of an option)
3. Cycle the tank (well this is a mess since simply having fish in the tank will cause it to cycle, I can't even begin to explain how much confusion this has caused)
4. Stop dosing Prime if you want your tank to cycle
5. Do dose bacteria (such as quick start) to properly cycle tank
6. Sump/Protein skimmer can help in most cases (as noted this isn't currently an option for me, and in 40 gallon or less tank it isn't really a requirement)
7. Water changes (I've seen numbers thrown around about this, 100% change, 75% changes daily, 20% changes weekly, never seen any real pro's or cons of each so we could talk about this)

Did I miss anything?

1. Throughout the hobby 1.025 salinity is the ideal. If you ask anyone on this forum most people are running there tanks at or around this range. Corals are sensitive to sudden swings in salinity. I blame that for your corals retraction if you changed the salinity in a matter of hours. Changing it from 1.019 to 1.025 should be a gradual process. over days if not weeks. It's great your getting a refractometer. It'll make the accuracy when you do make the change easier. @dopey gave great advice on testing your hydrometer.

2. Corals and fish will thrive at ~78F. I keep mine at 80F. The temperature has been a tried and true method that people all around the world keep there reefs at. It's better not to reinvent the wheel it comes to this. Taking into account the corals you listed they have all been proven to thrive at this temperature as well. Get a cooler if the temperatures are hot where you live.

3. Stick to following what the link has said on cycling. If you have fish in your tank I wouldn't add any other source. The clowns are messy and will produce enough along with the fish food you feed them. Keep in mind you may lose the fish in the tank during the cycle. High quantities of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are deadly to fish and since you can't remove these from the tank during the cycle you can't do much about it except hope they don't die. This sounds bad but I'm not going to sugarcoat anything.

4. Accurate. 3 covers why you want ammonia in your tank.

5. It's optional but it will speed up the process.

6. A sump and protein skimmer are optional. HIGHLY recommended no matter the tank size. A sump will make your display less cluttered, increase the amount of water you have giving you leeway for errors, and more. I agree with you on holding off on it until you have it in a permanent spot. I don't recommend a larger tank until you get a greater grasp of the hobby but that is your choice...

7. You shouldn't need to do water changes on a cycling tank but with a fish in cycle you want to do it to keep your parameters at survivable numbers. While not starving the cycle of ammonia. Since you have to do water changes it will slow your cycle but for the life of your fish there is no choice.

 

[MnFish1]

Yes I have seen the charts. I originally was using them but once I came here and everyone measures salinity in SG I stopped worrying as much about exactness and focused more on the results. Evaporation in my tank is also a big problem. I put a fan over the tank to limit the temperature but that also increases evaporation. For now I test salinity daily and there are very few days I don't need to make some kind of adjustment.

I'm talking about specific gravity. A change in temp of +5 degrees celsius will result in a specific gravity that is .002 - .004 lower than the 'real result'. I.e. if the specific gravity at 20c is 1.025 and your hydrometer is calibrated to 20c - if you measure water that is 30c - the specific gravity will measure 1.021 - 1.023

 

[Sako338]

1. Throughout the hobby 1.025 salinity is the ideal. If you ask anyone on this forum most people are running there tanks at or around this range. Corals are sensitive to sudden swings in salinity. I blame that for your corals retraction if you changed the salinity in a matter of hours. Changing it from 1.019 to 1.025 should be a gradual process. over days if not weeks. It's great your getting a refractometer. It'll make the accuracy when you do make the change easier. @dopey gave great advice on testing your hydrometer.

2. Corals and fish will thrive at ~78F. I keep mine at 80F. The temperature has been a tried and true method that people all around the world keep there reefs at. It's better not to reinvent the wheel it comes to this. Taking into account the corals you listed they have all been proven to thrive at this temperature as well. Get a cooler if the temperatures are hot where you live.

3. Stick to following what the link has said on cycling. If you have fish in your tank I wouldn't add any other source. The clowns are messy and will produce enough along with the fish food you feed them. Keep in mind you may lose the fish in the tank during the cycle. High quantities of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are deadly to fish and since you can't remove these from the tank during the cycle you can't do much about it except hope they don't die. This sounds bad but I'm not going to sugarcoat anything.

4. Accurate. 3 covers why you want ammonia in your tank.

5. It's optional but it will speed up the process.

6. A sump and protein skimmer are optional. HIGHLY recommended no matter the tank size. A sump will make your display less cluttered, increase the amount of water you have giving you leeway for errors, and more. I agree with you on holding off on it until you have it in a permanent spot. I don't recommend a larger tank until you get a greater grasp of the hobby but that is your choice...

7. You shouldn't need to do water changes on a cycling tank but with a fish in cycle you want to do it to keep your parameters at survivable numbers. While not starving the cycle of ammonia. Since you have to do water changes it will slow your cycle but for the life of your fish there is no choice.

I have a hob skimmer on my 30 gallon, it pulls some nasty stuff out, fwiw...

 

[NPRW]

Ralph mate you're doing fine. Like I said before don't worry about chasing the magic number. You're close enough with salinity, even if your hydrometer is reading out, I'd keep it wherever it is for stability reasons.
If you already have nitrate and no nitrite it means that stage of cycling is done and you're almost there.
I don't have a skimmer simply because of cost, but I would if I could! Looking at fabricating one for my next build.
Just stick at it mate, you made no big changes yesterday, it was prob the best thing you could do.

On another note, I've been a mod on forums before and I HATED it.
So whatever you guys do, I'm with you lol. You all do your thing so we don't have to worry about it.

 

[MnFish1]

Yes I have seen the charts. I originally was using them but once I came here and everyone measures salinity in SG I stopped worrying as much about exactness and focused more on the results. Evaporation in my tank is also a big problem. I put a fan over the tank to limit the temperature but that also increases evaporation. For now I test salinity daily and there are very few days I don't need to make some kind of adjustment.

curious. Which water do you use to adjust the salinity down. Ro

 

[67chevellemalibu2]

Stop feeding the fire!!!!!!

 

[CatfishCatfish]

Ralph, you’re being given a lot of sound advice and I understand that your original post is about water chemistry, but so many factors impact on water chemistry. This is why the contributors to this thread are asking so many questions which may seem to you as diverting from your original topic.

Successful Reef systems are symbiotic. Lighting, flow, temperature, feeding, livestock etc and other factors will all have a direct impact on water chemistry. Your response to some very good advice is to react with antagonism and argue about points which have already been tried and tested again and again. Towards people I might add, who are kind enough to attempt to assist you in resolving the issues you are having. It would be fair to point out that some contributors have reacted in kind towards you too. I am sorry if I am feeding fire, but I feel your behaviour has to be called for what it is.

I can guarantee you will have major problems given time if you don’t address the issue of temperature. It will have an impact on all of the other water parameters and you are more likely to be repeatedly battling ammonia spikes. Particularly if you add more livestock to this tank and even if you do complete the cycling process. Global warming and rising water temperatures are a major factor in so much of the destruction of the Great Barrier Reef in the country where I live and it is impacting reef systems across the globe as well. Believe me, it gets bloody hot and humid where I am too. 40c plus (104f) on a bad summers day. You can fry an egg on the road on a day like that! Chilling reef system water is not an issue most people in colder countries would consider, but it was the first thing which came to my mind when you mentioned you were struggling to get ammonia levels down (not wanting to repeat the good advice you had already been given)

Glad to hear you have the flow issue in hand. I am sorry I missed that point. This will also have an impact on water chemistry and the likelihood of ammonia spikes. A small body of still water is more likely to become foul. It will also help to reduce the temperature.

I really do sincerely hope you will take this on board along with the sound advice you have been given by others without reacting (by biting the hand of someone who is trying to help you, as someone previously mentioned)

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Ralph, you’re being given a lot of sound advice and I understand that your original post is about water chemistry, but so many factors impact on water chemistry. This is why the contributors to this thread are asking so many questions which may seem to you as diverting from your original topic.

Successful Reef systems are symbiotic. Lighting, flow, temperature, feeding, livestock etc and other factors will all have a direct impact on water chemistry. Your response to some very good advice is to react with antagonism and argue about points which have already been tried and tested again and again. Towards people I might add, who are kind enough to attempt to assist you in resolving the issues you are having. It would be fair to point out that some contributors have reacted in kind towards you too. I am sorry if I am feeding fire, but I feel your behaviour has to be called for what it is.

I can guarantee you will have major problems given time if you don’t address the issue of temperature. It will have an impact on all of the other water parameters and you are more likely to be repeatedly battling ammonia spikes. Particularly if you add more livestock to this tank and even if you do complete the cycling process. Global warming and rising water temperatures are a major factor in so much of the destruction of the Great Barrier Reef in the country where I live and it is impacting reef systems across the globe as well. Believe me, it gets bloody hot and humid where I am too. 40c plus (104f) on a bad summers day. You can fry an egg on the road on a day like that! Chilling reef system water is not an issue most people in colder countries would consider, but it was the first thing which came to my mind when you mentioned you were struggling to get ammonia levels down (not wanting to repeat the good advice you had already been given)

Glad to hear you have the flow issue in hand. I am sorry I missed that point. This will also have an impact on water chemistry and the likelihood of ammonia spikes. A small body of still water is more likely to become foul. It will also help to reduce the temperature.

I really do sincerely hope you will take this on board along with the sound advice you have been given by others without reacting (by biting the hand of someone who is trying to help you, as someone previously mentioned)

I understand the concern about the water temperature and I do intend to eventually invest in a water cooling system beyond just the fan I'm using now. It isn't a priority since the livestock can handle the temperature and are quite used to it.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Another update on the reservoir and Nitrite test. The reservoir is now reading 1.0 PPM Nitrite which confirms that the Nitrite test kit is working and that there is no Nitrite in the actual tank. Since the bacteria in the reservoir was transferred from the filter on the tank this confirms that the nitrogen cycle in the main tank is complete or nearly complete and that the ammonia reading was a false positive. I'm not sure if I should remove the dead shrimp from the reservoir or not but for now I'll just leave it. If the Ammonia is still there in two weeks it was obviously a mistake and I'll need to remove them.

 

[NPRW]

Another update on the reservoir and Nitrite test. The reservoir is now reading 1.0 PPM Nitrite which confirms that the Nitrite test kit is working and that there is no Nitrite in the actual tank. Since the bacteria in the reservoir was transferred from the filter on the tank this confirms that the nitrogen cycle in the main tank is complete or nearly complete and that the ammonia reading was a false positive. I'm not sure if I should remove the dead shrimp from the reservoir or not but for now I'll just leave it. If the Ammonia is still there in two weeks it was obviously a mistake and I'll need to remove them.

You can remove the shrimp now the cycle has started.
Nitrite will go up and then down, and nitrate will do the same after that.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

curious. Which water do you use to adjust the salinity down. Ro

Yes, I have a RO filter that we use for dishes and drinking water for our pets.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

So here is the API test result, I have every reason to believe this is a false positive. What do you think?

 

[muzikalmatt]

From what I've read and from my own experience, the API ammonia test is notorious for not reading zero properly. I believe when I was still testing for ammonia after first cycling the coloration you show in your picture typically indicated zero. Ideally having a second test kit to verify would be best, but I know that's not necessarily an option given your location.

 

[Cell]

Finished reading this thread and I think I need a shower now.

 

[brandon429]

MN fish great call on temp/salinity fluxes I did not think of that at all in chats w Ralph, nice one.

 

[MnFish1]

So here is the API test result, I have every reason to believe this is a false positive. What do you think?

I would say 'I think so'. But - if you ask 100 people and 100 people 'think' its a false positive it doesnt mean that it is a false positive. The only way to tell whether something is a false positive is to compare to another test - or - if its a high level - the fish, etc are all doing fine - its probably a false positive. If the tank is having problems - it makes it much less easy to tell.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I would say 'I think so'. But - if you ask 100 people and 100 people 'think' its a false positive it doesnt mean that it is a false positive. The only way to tell whether something is a false positive is to compare to another test - or - if its a high level - the fish, etc are all doing fine - its probably a false positive. If the tank is having problems - it makes it much less easy to tell.

The only reason I think it is a false positive is because the Nitrite tests are coming up empty and the bacteria transferred to the reservoir has confirmed its existence by converting ammonia levels into Nitrite. I tried to create a zero and failed by using RO water with synthetic salt. It came back blue which isn't even a valid result color.

If this is not a false positive than this can only mean that there is a steady supply of ammonia in the tank from uneaten food which is a very reasonable conclusion and that there is enough bacteria to convert the Nitrite immediately into Nitrate.

The red algae growth has now become a problem and I I had to brush a lot of it off, now that the remaining Torches are doing great, the Star Coral Polyps started hiding.

I have had so many different kinds of pets, and excluding a gecko that was chased down and eaten by my cats, none of them were ever this problematic! If they really want to die than so be it, it will be a fish only tank. They have everything they need right now. After brushing off the red algae the star coral did start to bloom again but this is ridiculous! Its obvious these corals are suicidal.

Of course I'm being dramatic but even though they're doing well now I'm very frustrated with how problematic they are. The fish-only option is becoming more and more likely every day.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

MN fish great call on temp/salinity fluxes I did not think of that at all in chats w Ralph, nice one.

No issue, I already knew about that. I had no intention of jumping right from 1.022 to 1.024, it was a miscalculation. Someone suggested I use 10% water change of 1.030 to make the transition, but I thought it was going to take multiple water changes so I put it all in at once. Temperature wise its rainy season so the tank will probably be a bit cooler for the next few months, after that I'll probably need a chiller.