The 'COULD IT WORK?' dump thread (newbie asking dumb questions)

Reeficheep · Nov 3, 2024

Hi everyone, (and thanks for the welcomes!)

As per the title, here is my ultimate 'could it work?!' dump thread for all you awesome people that know what you're doing. This will be my very first reef tank, and despite putting in a substantial amount of research, I'm sure at least 10% of this will be nonsense or frankly horrifyingly inaccurate. Apologies in advance :). This will be long, so I'll break it into several posts to hopefully encourage people to read it.

DUMP PART I

TANK AND MODS (Or lack thereof)
The planned tank is a Fluval Evo 13.5, no sump (AIO aquarium). I've seen a lot of people start with this, and although it is always recommended to 'start bigger, bigger is easier!'- bigger tank = bigger budget, and my budget for this is 'as low as possible.
I am hoping to mod this as little as possible (or not at all), but-

How do I scrape off the honeycomb stuff on top? I get that it hides the water line, but I've seen people that have done this and personally I think it looks cleaner (Also, I hate the look where it slowly degrades over time so you have little bits of black on the glass).
In terms of heater, I'm going for the Eheim 50 watt. Thoughts, comments or ideas otherwise or about this product is welcome.
I might consider a refugium if parameters get out of hand, or I might just put some 'nice' macroalgae (string of pearls, probably) in the DT.

Also, I have heard that due to the lid the tank is prone to overheating. As I'm located in a pretty hot area in the summer, I may mod the lid (I've seen people manually cut off parts or even replace with a mesh lid so the hot air can escape, but also know that that increases evaporation by a ridiculous amount. Other cheap suggestions welcome- would rather not buy fans or a chiller if possible).

This is BUDGET budget- I don't want a ATO. I don't want a skimmer. I don't want a whole lotta wave makers (or any, if possible). I don't want the latest and greatest LEDS or metal halides. KISS preferred.

ROCK AND SAND

WHY SO EXPENSIVE FOR A BUNCH OF ROCK! Seriously, one thing I like about freshwater is you can pick up (to a certain extent..) whichever rock you want from the side of the road, yet here they want me to spend THAT much?

Onto the more practical stuff…
I am thinking dry rock due to cost, possibly seeded with a VERY small amount of live for coralline/copepods/cool hitchhikers and also to (slightly) speed up the otherwise LOOONG cycle. Also, I know the uglies on dry rock is EXTREME- more questions on how to reduce that below. Will probably use about 8 pounds dry and 1 pound live.

Sand, am thinking Carab-Sea Arag-Alive Fiji Pink Sand, due to *apparently* containing bacteria. However, I have also read several articles on rip cleaning and they say just rinse it out before dumping in anyways, so is there any point buying live sand? Or should I just get other dry stuff? Am not planning on a goby or anything so I shouldn't need special grade (more questions in the upcoming legalities section).

Reeficheep · Nov 3, 2024

Alright, might as well...
DUMP PART II

STOCKING AND CUC

As for CUC, I know to wait until there is actually algae/cyano/diatoms etc. so they don't starve. Does this normally mean cycle -> fish -> CUC? Or CUC before fish?

Anyways, I'm thinking of starting with-

Trochus (algae) and/or cerith (algae) and/or Astrea (algae) and/or Gold ring cowrie (algae) (see upcoming legality section).
+
Vanilla stombus snail (sand bed)? I believe they are a smaller relative to fighting conches which would do well in this size tank for sand sifting. If I get one of these, is a nassarius (detritus) necessary?

Staying away from crabs for now (snail murderers are not high on my list of priorities), however below stocking should be fine with hermits anyway due to shell shape, right?

Probably
X1 Trochus
X2 Money cowrie
X1 Vanilla Strombus

I know this isn't a lot, but I think it's better to start small and grow than start large and either have a murdering spree or die off from lack of algae. I'll add more (maybe) if something comes up, like possibly a peppermint for aiptasia (however, I'd try boiling water or another strategy first, as I've heard peps go after LPS).
As for stocking…

CORAL
Toadstool leathers (look really cool, apparently almost impossible to kill- excellent)
Other sorts of leathers? Devils hand, cabbage, etc.
MAYBE xenia (I don't really want a tank takeover)
Eventually (maybe) a frogspawn or hammer.

This is the easy, hassle-free look I am going for (achievable by a total beginner, I hope).

I am going to attempt a tank with no coral feeding (except maybe with fish pellets), so no dosing, no nothing. Is this possible? Probably for softies, but what about a frog or hammer? If not, frog/hammer will promptly be ditched. Also, I am planning on keeping stock lighting and pump, so nothing with supreme lighting requirements.

I also LOVE ricordia mushrooms, but the price sends me running, so maybe not.
Zoas are cool, but even though it is easily avoidable, I'm not really keen on palytoxin when there are equally cool corals that can't kill you.

FISH
One or two clowns. No nem planned (they seem like a pain in the butt).
Is this allowed/going to work in a tank this size? I've seen people with 2 clowns AND a shrimp Goby pair or a fire-fish or something, but as this is my first tank, I really don't want to crash it, so tell me if this isn't going to work.

Reeficheep · Nov 3, 2024

DUMP PART III

Now, we enter controversy central…

SALINITY MEASURING/TEST KITS

I'm totally out of my depth here.

I really DON'T want to have to buy test kits. I understand how important it is in cycling, but I'll see if I can just get the lfs or someone to test it for me, because I'm not buying a kit just to show me when my cycle's done (I bought n API one for freshwater, and have used it exactly once). I understand this will limit my coral choices, but if I can only grow invincible softies, I'm fine with that. I also know that means I'll have to keep a very close eye on my fish, but I'm fine with that too.

As for salinity, refractometers seem WAY to complicated for me (very much a non-chemist). Will I be burned alive if I ask if I can just use a Tropic Marin Hydrometer? Will that even work in a tank this size?

Speaking of cycling…

I don’t really want to buy pure ammonia just to cycle (remember what I said about budget?). I really just want to toss in a prawn and call it a day, but I've heard that isn't the most reliable method, so are there any good easy ways to do this? I also don't really want to buy bottles of BB to boost the cycle, and if that means waiting another month before adding fish, I'm cool with that. Not planning on fish in cycling.

Also, do you just leave the lights off for a few months (or even until adding coral) to partially skip the uglies? I'm all for avoiding them naturally, so any easy thing WILL be done.

And as for coral… do I just add after everything is stabilised and stock is settled in? Is there a certain number of months recommended?

SAND BED AND AVOIDING UGLIES

Here come the questions… In terms of sand bed, I plan on keeping it shallow (no burrowing fish intended, no random tank crashes from disturbing deep sand bed wanted). How shallow is shallow? About an inch? Is one 10 pound bag of sand enough?

Also, about cleaning- should I stir up a small patch every time I do a wc in order to stop toxic stuff building up, or will that just make it worse? Should I totally avoid it all together? Should I get a conch as part of the CUC as said earlier? The idea of simply disturbing the sand and crashing the tank does not exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Avoiding uglies, as mentioned earlier- lights off for ages? Also, I've heard the following things to prevent mass uglies-

NEVER let nitrate and phosphate? Phosphorus? (told you I'm not a chemist) bottom out. Causes dinos (the reefer's bane)
Keep the pores of your live rock free from detritus and blow gunk out often with a powerhead or turkey baster. Stops algae growth.
When you see algae, just scrape it off and suck it up straight away? Or is this the wrong way around, and you're meant to leave it?
Try and scrape algae (including coralline) off the glass with a credit card or something similar straight away, because it's a pain once it builds up.

If these are wrong, fire away.

Also, RODI…
I am not on the public water system. My house exclusively runs on tank water straight from the sky. This means no impurities, heavy metals, chlorine, etc. etc. (I think).

Can I skip RODI? I mean, I'm not running an SPS acro-dominant tank here- this is the bare basics of reef keeping. Not keen on spending hundreds on something I can avoid.

Reeficheep · Nov 3, 2024

By the way, I'm not expecting anyone to answer ALL of these questions, or even more than one. I just don't want to try and start a system and miserably fail because I have no idea what I'm doing :).

Fish Fan · Nov 3, 2024

OK, I don't think I've ever typed this, but TLDR LOL!

My suggestion is to PLEASE curtail your posts, you'll get a lot more replies ;-)

In the interested of TLDR, I do have just some quick things I picked up on.

First of all, you've done some research, you seem to know more than most beginners, but maybe just enough to be dangerous ;-) Go SLOWLY in the hobby, this is NOT freshwater, it's not even close. You've been warned.

You can KISS this hobby all day, as you say, but this is not a hobby for those that don't have even a meager budget to throw at it. I would not suggest you go without an ATO on a small tank like that. You'll be having to top up constantly, and the salinity swings will not be good for your tank.

Where are you getting your water? You'll need to but gallons of distilled water from the grocery store (about $1/gallon), or get RODI or mixed saltwater from your LFS. DO NOT try to used treated tap water.

EDIT: I just noticed your "Sky water", and no, that is NOT pure water at all; don't use it. See above.

The benefits of using REAL live rock, especially in your first system, make it entirely worth it. Read this now, and believe me later.

You need to cycle a dry rock tank, you'll need ammonia. You can use a piece of prawn, or you can use this. It's 4 bucks. If you can't afford 4 bucks, seriously, just wait until you have a larger budget.

You can can the LFS test your water, and you can manage a small tank by doing routine, large water changes. You need to have the water mixed and heated in advance (get a $5 five gallon bucket, a small pump ($30) and heater ($20) and use this to change out your water. You do this so the water you change is the same temp as the water in your tank. Ideally, you need to check for salinity at the least, and really pH.

Arguably "the best" budget test kits at the ones by Salifert. Usually about $12-$15/ kit.

It's great that you're panning, but take one step at a time. If you are determined to use dry rock, learn all that you can about cycling a tank, that's your first thing. Use at least some live rock, and bottled bacteria and an ammonia source if needed.

Good luck!

Reeficheep · Nov 3, 2024

Alright, very goods points. I agree, that was a massive dump- would it be better to split it into different threads?

Out of interest, what is in rain water that makes it inadequate for use in a tank?

I was planning on using a prawn, and sorry if it didn't sound like I wasn't going to. What I was trying to say was that I read somewhere that prawn was not as reliable as ammonia- if it really is better to get ammonia, I'll just buy some. I was also hoping to avoid bottled bac by doing a longer cycle.

I am planning on using a small piece of live rock if the lfs sells some, (which they hopefully do), and I do know how the saltwater cycle works.

EDIT- Hmm, won't let me edit anything but the last thread. Will have to put TLDR in next comment. Whoops.

Fish Fan · Nov 3, 2024

Reeficheep said:
Alright, very goods points. I agree, that was a massive dump- would it be better to split it into different threads?

Out of interest, what is in rain water that makes it inadequate for use in a tank?

Yes. It's best to ask about a specific question or two. Again, I think you're first step is to fully understand how to cycle a tank, especially if you insist on using dry rock (which I wouldn't recommended). Again, it's much more complicated and time consuming to cycle a saltwater tank than freshwater. The two hobbies are really very different, and I can't stress that enough.

Have you heard of acid rain? Basically, when rain water first precipitates (form in the clouds), sure, it's pure water. But pure water is very, very reactive, and as the rain falls it reacts with and picks up all kinds of material in the atmosphere, including carbon dioxide (which is what forms the acid in acid rain), but also all kinds of who knows what including pollution, auto exhaust fumes, you name it. By the time that water hits your collectors, it is far from pure.