The great bare bottom debate

[GOSKN5]

Miss that tank some... here is my latest barebottom creation...

 

[zchauvin]

Very nice

 

[Murica]

I will start by asking are you happy with your tank and is everything thriving or do you have issues with the current setup? If the tank is healthy and you are happy with the setup why make changes? In my new system I will have both bare bottom and a tank with sand. I prefer sand in my reef tanks normally 1-2.5 inches. If there is a good sand clean up crew I never really worried about issues from the sand bed. I can completely understand the bare bottom tanks though where flow is maxed out and sand simply just wont stay in place or causes sand storms. There are also some benefits for detritus removal being easier with bare bottom. I think it comes down to what works best for your setup and desired tank conditions.

Right now I have been very lucky and have had no issues.. Only two year old tank though. The bio filter is nice, I literally have almost zero params every time I test and I only do water changes every 45 days (50 gallons at a time). Fish are thriving but no corals yet so it's a fowlr. I just hear horror stories of crashes and I don't want to be one of those victims, besides dealing with cyano in the past with old tank was never fun. It's not like I have a dsb so I don't even know if a crash is a legitimate concern or not

 

[Murica]

Thanks for all the info and opinions, gonna take a while before I decide what to do ha lot of work involved if I take it out. I like the look of sand but really care about the health of the tank so I'm torn..

 

[Syntax1235]

Such a great thread!!!! I'm in the decision process for a bare bottom vs sand on my 180 upgrade.

Has anyone used a self-leveling epoxy with reef sand mixed in and applied to the exterior bottom of a tank to get a "sand" look?

 

[zchauvin]

Such a great thread!!!! I'm in the decision process for a bare bottom vs sand on my 180 upgrade.

Has anyone used a self-leveling epoxy with reef sand mixed in and applied to the exterior bottom of a tank to get a "sand" look?

Yep several threads on this as well. Many ways to skin a cat :)

 

[rock_lobster]

Also depends on the tank you want to run.. High nutrient high growth or low nutrient lower growth? I think its much harder to keep a high nutrient tank with a sand bed.

 

[uppermost]

I have both and really like barebottom. Like others stated, I run alot of flow and sand would definitely be getting blown around. When I do a water change I quickly clean the bottom of the glass with a kent scraper brush whenever needed. Both bottom and back of glass is black

 

[vlangel]

I have always had sand beds, preferably DSB. However I keep seahorses now and am not comfortable trying them with a DSB, they are high nutrient and very susceptible to bacterial infections. I have had them in SSB but then I have battled cyano so my latest tank is a bb painted underneath. I have had it running for about 4 months and for ponies I will never have a sandbed again. Keeping the tank free of detritus and excess food is paramount and a bb makes that less of a chore. The tank is light and airy looking with gorgs, a few soft coral and macro algae. Its so clean that maybe it looks a bit sterile but for ponies, I will take it.

 

[Slowpoke]

+1 for the bb. So much easier to keep clean. I keep a mp10 on the bottom and it pushes everything in one corner. Siphon it through a filter sock every 2 days and dump water back in.

 

[Murica]

Again, another question with conflicting responses, I've heard countless times stirring up sand and/or siphoning can disrupt the bacterial role sand plays and possibly kill the micro fauna in the sand, so many people suggest not touching it at all. This is why I hear a lot of people say sand sifting gobies are bad. Thoughts? I haven't touched my sand for this reason but it sounds like most people in this thread stir it up. I had a diamond watchman goby that I loved but everyone said they're terrible to have because they kill the sand bed over time.

 

[zchauvin]

I used to maintenance over 250 systems a month for work on top of my own tank(s) over the years. Several of clients had sand sifting gobys and starfish and snails ect ect and at every monthly cleaning we would vacuum the sand. Not once was it ever "clean". Always had the same grayish brown milky colored crap coming out of it. Move a rock and you have the same thing, clean under the rocks and it was disgusting. Aside from what sand might do at 1", 2", 5", or if sifted, left alone, yata yata it still will have detritus in it and will never be as clean as if you have a hard bottom with flow stirring up food/poop and siphoning it out. Ideally a high flow system with no sand and minimal rock work is best for keeping any detritus from building up but rarely will you have that scenario.

 

[mort]

Again, another question with conflicting responses, I've heard countless times stirring up sand and/or siphoning can disrupt the bacterial role sand plays and possibly kill the micro fauna in the sand, so many people suggest not touching it at all. This is why I hear a lot of people say sand sifting gobies are bad. Thoughts? I haven't touched my sand for this reason but it sounds like most people in this thread stir it up. I had a diamond watchman goby that I loved but everyone said they're terrible to have because they kill the sand bed over time.

Stirring sand is fine as is siphoning but this only applies to shallow sand beds. The problems occur when you destroy the different oxygen layers where bacteria live and this is happens only with increased depth.
sand sifting gobies are considered bad because they deplete the substrate of all the critters that keep it healthy. They do stir it up and keep it oxygenated so won't be a problem for bacteria if the substrate is shallow enough.

 

[mort]

I used to maintenance over 250 systems a month for work on top of my own tank(s) over the years. Several of clients had sand sifting gobys and starfish and snails ect ect and at every monthly cleaning we would vacuum the sand. Not once was it ever "clean". Always had the same grayish brown milky colored crap coming out of it. Move a rock and you have the same thing, clean under the rocks and it was disgusting. Aside from what sand might do at 1", 2", 5", or if sifted, left alone, yata yata it still will have detritus in it and will never be as clean as if you have a hard bottom with flow stirring up food/poop and siphoning it out. Ideally a high flow system with no sand and minimal rock work is best for keeping any detritus from building up but rarely will you have that scenario.

You'll still see dirty sand because the sand sifter are pulling worms, starfish and other fauna from the sand but not eating the detritus (in fact removing these fauna means there is less detritus processing).

 

[mort]

I personally don't think detritus is all that bad, maybe if you let it build up for years and years.

.

I think this statements sums up my thoughts. Detritus is seen as a massive nutrient sink but if the tank is properly maintained it shouldn't be an issue imo. I've read a lot on dsb and cryptic zones and you see that in a well mined ecosystem detritus is processed so that it isn't a nutrient sink at all.

Bare bottom is interesting and not something that seems to be popular over here, the discussion instead is which substrate you choose. I personally would never run a tank without it but understand the benefits of not having it, although think the benefits of at least some out way it.
I run mixed substrate in my tanks, filling in where the sand is blown away by coarser grains. This means I can really up the flow without it blowing away and when the sand bed is disturbed I see little detritus being blown out. I certainly would like to remove my biggest biofilter.

 

[alten78]

Lots of good thoughts here but ultimately it comes down to preference as there are so many paths to take to get to the same end point. After 12 or so years of having sand, I ended up going barebottom about 9 months ago when I swapped tanks (bottom outside painted white) and I've been really happy with the results thus far.

People that come over that have a dislike for BB have a (slight) change of heart after seeing how clean it looks. Granted, its only been 9 months and only half of it is now covered in coralline but I think it still looks nice and clean. Seeing detritus pile up drives me crazy so it certainly forces me to siphon and keep up with maintenance more often. I wouldn't say my tank is any more or less healthy going from sand to bb but not having my clowns constantly throwing sand around is good enough for me!

 

[Ashish Patel]

I've ran BB and it really helped with nutrient control.. However, I feel its not good for the ecosystem and happiness of the fish and invert. Therefore, I only use sand for aesthetics so .5"... This is a good system and a happy medium between the 2.

 

[brandon429]

Murica

not loss of impactful bacteria will occur from rinsing, even with tap. if exporting tiny animals is worse than the waste kept in the bed, do not rinse. bacterial impacts do not factor after the rinse, the sand grains are still highly contaminated with bacteria and insulating scum films. even tap water wont cut that, I rinse my sandbed in tap (then post rinse in saltwater) to make it function as if no sandbed was in place, but I still get the look and rocks held up higher which I like. since the bed stores no waste, my sandbed is no liability during power outages, cleaning events, if a rock falls over etc. nothing stirs up from a bed kept clean, its a new way of running sandbeds we use in nano reefs to increase lifespan.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

 

[brandon429]

its my take after research that remote DSBs are awesome because they are detritus pre filtered and not a big diaper. I truly believe more of those can be arranged to attain nitrate degassing using only natural stratifications, because the detrital loading is scaled down so much.

for the DSB in the display tanks, catching and holding the whole waste from many fish, Im finding that many keepers are still having to carbon dose eventually anyway and they get the added liabilities that come from high biological oxygen demands during power outages, moves, and drop events or other disturbances.

SB untouched is an invading dinoflagellate's best friend as well
agreed the display tank, hands off 15 yr old sandbed ran the 90's its the heart of the Berlin method but I think its safe to say over 20 yrs the repeatability of setting a tank up like that and attaining natural nitrate reduction is so low we now have ATS and vodka and biopellets and nopox and vibrant on and on.

live rock and dsb's do a disappointing job in natural nitrate reduction on a consistent basis. I rate the ability to attain NNR by any aquarist through arranging only natural materials in the display tank is about ten percent or less likelihood. Its a fact that the ten percent who attain that think those who care so much about detritus are crazy :)

we get massive correction turnaround in wrecked tank threads by disassembling and cleaning rotten old sandbeds to a huge degree of significance.

 

[hart24601]

Here is my take on it. Clearly you can have a sand bed and have a nice tank! If someone really likes sand then rock on, there is nothing wrong with that! Just be aware of potential issues and keeping it clean or at least keep it in mind. This hobby is fueled with passion and people seem to get really upset by some issues - nothing is a big deal, but like everything else there are pros and cons.

For me it's pretty unlikely I will ever have a sand bed again (unless having a clam only tank). These are a few reason why, and once again it's not like it's a "must" thing, just my preference.

1. I like keeping pumps near the bottom of the tank, I really like the increased flow area and greater flow especially for SPS tank.
2. I like the look for SPS systems.
3. I know that personally I will keep the system cleaner with bare bottom. I can speculate all I want about how fish or coral or inverts might be happier but I can't quantify or prove that, but for me personally I know that I can provide cleaner water without a sand bed.
4. I have seen so many tanks, online and locally, that start having mystery issues. The vast majority of these especially with sps I trace back to sand beds. I now ask right off the bat what happens if you stir your sand bed (no these are not special DSB setups) and almost every time it's just foul. Many tanks get some large coral colonies and block access to the sand or people just forget to clean it. I had issues in my nano that I couldn't get to the sand nor could clean up crews.
5. There are plenty of BB tanks that do great and contain a huge variety of coral and life showing me that SB are not needed for anything I wish to keep so it's purely an aesthetic choice for me.
6. Getting sand in mag float and scratching the tank.

Again these issues can be avoided if you love sand and are diligent, but just not worth it to me!