The greatest responsibility of new cyclers is fish disease prep, what are you doing to prepare?

[sixty_reefer]

Honest question

how does this “work thread” interacts with your other thread that supports instant cycling with fish?

do i quarantine the fish for 75 days, and after that period I’m ok to use that fish to insta cycle a display tank?
What would be my benefit? Couldn’t I just do a standard cycle wile the fish is in quarantine?

 

[brandon429]

Was Duncan‘s inclusion of a fish here during a cycle well- received, or not

Nitrite Toxicity

Actually lots of them. They freak out a bit but always make it. Feel better now. You guys just aren't very nice. A bunch of know it all who won't hear anything except yourselves. Except Lasse. I'd bet your a real dick. So brave when typing. Would you rather see a damsel pass or a large...

www.reef2reef.com

lol I had to dig real deep on the web to find that chastising/ been searching an hour using complex algorithm key terms to drive google

it’s true we are all super kind about fish in cycles by and large. I thought there were more instances of tough love

 

[i_am_mclovin]

It’s confusing when you lead with a punishment statement, unsubbed, then continue the argument without specific answers to whether or not we are getting some proof that extended cycling wait makes up for no disease preps.

I honestly view anyone who tries to make a point to me without a work thread, but with a tank at home, as trolling. I’m thinking the whole time: I bet you couldn’t get five reefs to post consistent outcomes with that.

Im now checking your post history to see if you‘re a quarantiner like McLovin is

I’d define trolling more like - someone with zero fish experience and zero fish in their aquarium, who openly said they wouldn’t QT if they got fish, but creates a thread telling everyone how what they’re doing with fish is wrong and the mass fish die off is inexcusable and unacceptable.

 

[brandon429]

McLovin

steering back to constructive, helpful insightful input:

Stevens tank here in the forum was recently cycled and uses four small rocks, two pre cycled from the pet store, two dry starts, and bottle bac was used.


what are your recommended steps for him to add fish, what’s the details he can use to get the best longevity from his about to be stocked reef tank

 

[brandon429]

Anyone who thinks pico reefers can’t run massive work threads is a volumist

 

[Lyss]

I think you catch more flies with honey. If you want to make change, and you want to enlist groups of ppl to help be part of that change, you've got to win hearts and minds vs. chastise. But I do think you can be strong in your advice -- let folks know it's not cool to treat fish as disposable and tell them attainable options to do in their situation that will be likely to improve outcomes. But in the end you have to let go and let people make their own decisions. Hopefully they will make better, more informed ones going forward.

 

[brandon429]

Well said.

 

[Paul B]

I think I used to know what this thread was about, but now I am totally confused. Is it about cycling, quarantining, cycling and quarantining at the same time or chicken and rice soup?

Why would anyone want to cycle and quarantine at the same time? I am asking because I totally forgot how I cycled my tank in 1971 and I don't have to quarantine, much less do both together.

By the way, a tank is never cycled, just saying.

This hobby is kind of easy but for some reason we try very hard to make it complicated. I don't have any problems and I don't have any degrees. Not Fahrenheit or even Celsius.

But I do cringe when I see some of the things many of us do as I know what the outcome will be.

There are just so many ways to make this relatively easy but so many of us want a quick fix like taking a pill. I guess thats why the vast majority of hobbiests are Noobs. Not to many people tend to stay with this and I am sure all the fish losses and weird procedures have something to do with it.

Wish I could help but I have been trying to help people learn without making it look like my way is the only way to go. Obviously, it is not. But common sense is worth a thousand pages of internet reading.

Have fun and good luck.

Confused.

 

[brandon429]

Let's good cop bad cop them into compliance, I'll play the good one

 

[brandon429]

Paul

from your post above, how would this recently cycled reef proceed with adding fish:

Stevens recently cycled reef pic


many new tanks start just this way, how you prescribe them to proceed matters they’ll listen to you

what’s the steps, I’ll relay best practices you recommend to those who want to participate in my cycle threads. The sole action we seek is a clear start date they can add fish, when is that date for Steven

what specific steps should he take so that the same group of fish he wants is alive in May

 

[brandon429]

let the record reflect I’m asking McLovin and Paul to give very specific fish stocking steps on the tank above. Resume jesting soon after

 

[Dcal]

Unfollowing.

If you want to educate people then you need to bring them along for the ride, not patronize them and tell them they are being irresponsible.

Also, I have to say, the way that you write is really difficult to read. It is almost like a different language and it is the same type of language in the rip clean threads as well. It’s almost turned into bot speak.

Genuine question. Have you QT’d a fish yourself? I am new to the hobby and QT’d my first 2 and it isn’t as easy as it sounds. Even the QT the experts have changed their guidance in the few months I have been doing this.

In my opinion, if you want to save the fish world, this needs to be aimed at the trade. Without any data (which seems to be an acceptable means of coming to conclusions), I would think that the problems/deaths caused by the end customer are small fry (no pun intended) compared to the supply chain.

"I dont keep marine fish/just corals so its never been something to encounter..."

 

[brandon429]

Dcal, thats deep. And helpful, sincere et al. We discussed volumism lol and work threads and such a scope beyond that snippet like one page ago.

Youre added to the list of requests, can you list specifically what a Steven should do?

which is easier: pulling teeth from an angry horse or holding the last four posters to specifics



Team I’ll remind you mods won’t allow this to be an argument thread so stop making it one, and list the specifics I’m asking for

@Lyss

any chance I can get your input for Steven above? That’ll show them what it means to add helpful content.

Dcal, McLovin, not Paul I find his jokes funny:

if you aren’t posting ways new reefers can best prepare for fish disease you’re asking for the spotlight, stay on task.

 

[MnFish1]

Dcal, thats deep. And helpful, sincere et al. We discussed volumism lol and work threads and such a scope beyond that snippet like one page ago.

Youre added to the list of requests, can you list specifically what a Steven should do?

which is easier: pulling teeth from an angry horse or holding the last four posters to specifics



Team I’ll remind you mods won’t allow this to be an argument thread so stop making it one, and list the specifics I’m asking for

@Lyss

any chance I can get your input for Steven above? That’ll show them what it means to add helpful content.

Dcal, McLovin, not Paul I find his jokes funny:

if you aren’t posting ways new reefers can best prepare for fish disease you’re asking for the spotlight, stay on task.

Steven IMHO should buy healthy fish from a reputable LFS that are well fed. If the LFS allows him to - he should observe the fish in their tank for a period of time. He should document from the LFS that they are using a similar salinity to his tank - and that they are not using copper. I buy my fish this way and have not had a problem since. I also only buy fish that are in a tank with other inverts, etc - to be certain there is no copper, etc.

But - IMHO - Steven can do whatever he wants - because according to polls here - at least most of them - which would be 'my work thread' - have no standard definition of 'Quarantine' - and a large number of successful reef (fish) keepers are included in the group that does no 'Quarantine'.

The disease forums - IMHO - have a lot of posts as many others have said - because they have a problem - and want an expert opinion on how to treat 'that disease'. I have suggested that R2R have a forum specifically for 'QUARANTINE' as well as 'CYCLING'.

 

[brandon429]

Thank you, thats very clear and sounds agreeable to me for sure.

Paul, Dcal, what cha got

 

[Paul B]

Brandon, that tank above IMO is not ready for any fish. I feel it is way to bare and would cause much stress to anything. I would add about 3 times more rock, or more. That one cave is fine but not good enough to eliminate stress.

It needs more "proper" caves or "passages" where we can't hardly see the fish. Not one where we can see through from front to back. No fish will feel comfortable in there as they can not get out of our view. The fish wants to sometimes be in a dark spot where we can't see it.

If he could get some real live rock in there, that would be so much better.

I would also get most of that rock up off the sand. Put some smaller, irregular stones under there to elevate the stones. It doesn't have to be much, just enough to provide circulation. That will not only allow oxygen to get to all parts of the sand, but eventually pods and other things will grow there. They don't grow as much on bare, clean rock.

Detritus will also accumulate under there and in the caves I suggested and detritus is essential for bacteria and pods to grow.
No bacteria equals no healthy fish.


Remember bacteria run our tanks, we are just there to give the bacteria something to make fun of.

The more bacteria, the better.
After a small hermit crab, I would add 2 small fish. Maybe gobies, bleenies etc. No tangs, copperbands, butterflies, mandarins etc.

I like yellow clown gobies, citron gobies, bleenies, cardinals etc. Like these.









I would not add any dragonettes or pipefish like these as they will starve








Notice the growth on the rock this 10 year old mandarin is on. That is the goal you are looking for. It is needed for the pods that fish eats to grow but it also is the home to the bottom of the food chain which will grow larger pods and needed bacteria.



I would wait a couple of years before adding those fish and never in a tank that small.

Many people would add clownfish. I would not. They are much to aggressive and will make it harder to add anything else.

Feed these fish something frozen like LRS frozen reef frenzy food. You will need some kind of sinking pellet just in the beginning mostly for the crab and bacteria. After a few months, don't use pellets any longer. The fish don't need pellets and shouldn't be fed them.

Do not add any water conditioners, Chemi Clean, Phosguard or any of that similar stuff.

Hows that for specifics Brandon?
If anyone disagrees with my "opinion" . I don't care.
Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[brandon429]

That qualifies as specifics and shocking nice pics x 1000


thank you very much, my advice to him was very close indeed but I’d missed one thing: why put fish in something so small, fully agreed. ethically we can run inverts and corals but fish = why. Relative to the setup, the degree of surface area, it’s simply not a tank designed for fish that’s now apparent. Your mandarin was honed in on natural bugs above he did peck shortly after that pic

 

[Dcal]

That qualifies as specifics and shocking nice pics x 1000


thank you very much, my advice to him was very close indeed but I’d missed one thing: why put fish in something so small, fully agreed. ethically we can run inverts and corals but fish = why. Relative to the setup, the degree of surface area, it’s simply not a tank designed for fish that’s now apparent. Your mandarin was honed in on natural bugs above he did peck shortly after that pic

Did we read the same post? Idk where I missed that being the main takeaway from his writeup

 

[brandon429]

No the issue is you and I read the same passage and draw two different conclusions, maybe it’s the recency vs primacy effect it could be overall sincerity in play tbd

”Brandon, that tank above IMO is not ready for any fish. I feel it is way to bare and would cause much stress to anything”



it made me think we are used to taking literally anyone’s offered setup, hyperfocusing on cycling readiness while losing the overall scope of is it good for fish at all

we just did that, in his thread, debated cycle status for four pages. The umps agree its ready now and we were about to load it with fish, Pauls post directly says above its not ready and lists reasons why. Nobody else in Stevens post noticed that detail Paul did.

his post reminded me that just by the cursory appearance of that tank, regardless of cycle status, it isn’t ready for fish. It’s ok if you don’t post a method that one above is plenty good.

 

[Dcal]

my point was where does "Brandon, that tank above IMO is not ready for any fish. I feel it is way to bare and would cause much stress to anything” turn in to " why put fish in something so small, fully agreed."

Granted i may be interpreting what you mean incorrectly but i am still lost on the progression