The Mindstream is DEAD!! I'm getting mine soon!

[road_runner]

This information originated from me on a different thread.

Yes sir, thank you so much for pointing that out.
I copy paste your calculations to my phone but for some reason cannot find the original post...
Thank you!
Do you agree with the discussion thu? I do not see your calculation wrong, I actually see it conservative, if you go trident route it's not reasonable not to think you will need probs to get basic temp,salinity..etc.
And of we compare apple to.apple we even meed to add the O2 prob price to the trident route...

 

[Jeff_H]

I purposefully used the $40/month for the mindstream since it matches the way the Neptune reagents are purchased on a monthly/bi-monthly basis. I also can’t imagine anyone forking over $40o for a years worth of disks from a company with no track record.

The apex base unit and head unit can be purchased together for $800. You’ve shown them separately for $1,000. That’s not really fair.

I think I posted the $35 per month before I knew there was a difference in price. That said - You might not be able to image someone dropping $400 per year on an unproven company, but I can promise you I will. I've dropped more than that on a coral that I have zero guarantees will survive a day in my tank. Like I said before, we all have a different pain and/or trust threshold.

I use the Apex Base unit ($400) and the Trident ($600) to show the lowest possible cost if you didn't own an Apex yet. You would add an additional $100 to $400 doing it the way you suggested going with the full or EL options.

 

[Paul Sands]

Yes - They charged my card with me knowing (upfront) the product wouldn't ship for 6-8 weeks at best. I did it to get in line for what I expect will be a limited supply. As I've mentioned earlier, I'm still waiting for three different online companies to get back to me on an available trident since the launch day... Still nothing! This was my choice to make before giving them my credit card number, and there was nothing shady about it. Also, I verified with my CC company today and they confirmed some companies do this specifically for limited supply items and it is legal. The also said I have up to six months to dispute the charges, even longer for special cases. I don't know if all credit cards are the same, but this is the case with mine. From my perspective, I can pull the plug any time I decide I don't like what I'm seeing from them or the product. For now, I'm still cautiously optimistic! ;)

I get it. New gadgets are fun. But if the company has to charge your credit card 2 months in advance of shipping the product, that’s pretty indicative of a company completely strapped for cash. If so, the only possible way for them to survive long term is constant new influx of customers buying their product. They haven’t allowed beta testers to share their experiences in advance of the initial sales. I can’t imagine a reason for that other than poor performance or bad management.

The Kickstarter for this product was 6 years ago and so poorly managed and delayed that they had to cancel it. I’m sure we’ll have a few months, if not another year or two to debate this product before they actually end up shipping anything.

I think I posted the $35 per month before I knew there was a difference in price. That said - You might not be able to image someone dropping $400 per year on an unproven company, but I can promise you I will. I've dropped more than that on a coral that I have zero guarantees will survive a day in my tank. Like I said before, we all have a different pain and/or trust threshold.

Really? You’d put $420 at risk to save $60? I think I’d pay the $40/month for a few months at least.

 

[road_runner]

I get it. New gadgets are fun. But if the company has to charge your credit card 2 months in advance of shipping the product, that’s pretty indicative of a company completely strapped for cash. If so, the only possible way for them to survive long term is constant new influx of customers buying their product. They haven’t allowed beta testers to share their experiences in advance of the initial sales. I can’t imagine a reason for that other than poor performance or bad management.

The Kickstarter for this product was 6 years ago and so poorly managed and delayed that they had to cancel it. I’m sure we’ll have a few months, if not another year or two to debate this product before they actually end up shipping anything.

Can you cancel an order withen a week of ordering?
It really is a standard practice with startups to charge in advance.
Not sure why this is such a big deal. Ppl who pay ate ppl who liked the product...are these people complaining?.what's the problem?
Genuinely asking..

 

[road_runner]

I get it. New gadgets are fun. But if the company has to charge your credit card 2 months in advance of shipping the product, that’s pretty indicative of a company completely strapped for cash. If so, the only possible way for them to survive long term is constant new influx of customers buying their product. They haven’t allowed beta testers to share their experiences in advance of the initial sales. I can’t imagine a reason for that other than poor performance or bad management.

The Kickstarter for this product was 6 years ago and so poorly managed and delayed that they had to cancel it. I’m sure we’ll have a few months, if not another year or two to debate this product before they actually end up shipping anything.



Really? You’d put $420 at risk to save $60? I think I’d pay the $40/month for a few months at least.

When you buy trident, kh director, khg or any other equipment you are putting the price at risk before you really know how it works..no?

 

[Paul Sands]

When you buy trident, kh director, khg or any other equipment you are putting the price at risk before you really know how it works..no?

Sure, but all of them come from companies that have successfully brought similar products to market and have existing revenue streams. This company is literally one unproven product being hastily rushed out the door.

Not sure why this is such a big deal. Ppl who pay ate ppl who liked the product...are these people complaining?.what's the problem?
Genuinely asking..

I mean, if they ordered it then there isn’t anything to discuss, but they literally posted this on a discussion board. Did they only want fan boys to come to the thread an pat them on the back?

 

[road_runner]

Sure, but all of them come from companies that have successfully brought similar products to market and have existing revenue streams. This company is literally one unproven product being hastily rushed out the door.



I mean, if they ordered it then there isn’t anything to discuss, but they literally posted this on a discussion board. Did they only want fan boys to come to the thread an pat them on the back?

I get your points.. well, then we have to give them the benifit of the doubt. Even successful companies have screwd up products and customers...no shortage in bad products in the market paul.
Anyway, let's watch and learn and see where this product lead. It's fun times the industry is going through..
I will say again, these guys truly innovative and did something no one else have done yet, at the very least thay are making everyone else think...

 

[Jeff_H]

Yes sir, thank you so much for pointing that out.
I copy paste your calculations to my phone but for some reason cannot find the original post...
Thank you!
Do you agree with the discussion thu? I do not see your calculation wrong, I actually see it conservative, if you go trident route it's not reasonable not to think you will need probs to get basic temp,salinity..etc.
And of we compare apple to.apple we even meed to add the O2 prob price to the trident route...

I don't agree or disagree with the discussion. People seem to look at spending money differently and how much trust they have in the companies they spend it with. I normally don't get involved with this type of discussion, but there were so many people being driven to look at this product and the company in a negative light that I decided to provide a counterpoint to all the negativity. I respect the opposing opinions and I do like that it makes me rethink my decisions. All good dialog!

I think my calculations are correct, but I'm known to make a few mistakes... Just ask my wife! ;)

I think the Triton is a great product, and as of a couple of weeks ago they appear to be having a successful launch. If I would have been lucky enough to have purchased one on the launch day, I wouldn't be here now and likely very content. I do have a significant investment in Neptune products and think they work well, but they're not perfect. I also not like the idea of having everything controlled by a single product. If your Apex base unit fails, you lose many of the items it's controlling until you can get it replaced. I know this because it happened to me twice. I know have a spare base unit, but it still takes hours to program because you still can't recover from a backup file. That's why I would rather have the MindStream to monitor the system outside the apex.

 

[road_runner]

I don't agree or disagree with the discussion. People seem to look at spending money differently and how much trust they have in the companies they spend it with. I normally don't get involved with this type of discussion, but there were so many people being driven to look at this product and the company in a negative light that I decided to provide a counterpoint to all the negativity. I respect the opposing opinions and I do like that it makes me rethink my decisions. All good dialog!

I think my calculations are correct, but I'm known to make a few mistakes... Just ask my wife! ;)

I think the Triton is a great product, and as of a couple of weeks ago they appear to be having a successful launch. If I would have been lucky enough to have purchased one on the launch day, I wouldn't be here now and likely very content. I do have a significant investment in Neptune products and think they work well, but they're not perfect. I also not like the idea of having everything controlled by a single product. If your Apex base unit fails, you lose many of the items it's controlling until you can get it replaced. I know this because it happened to me twice. I know have a spare base unit, but it still takes hours to program because you still can't recover from a backup file. That's why I would rather have the MindStream to monitor the system outside the apex.

Well thought out thinking proccess.
Am on the same boat more or less, just waiting on the other testers thatbate coming out then will invest in a path.. for sure I want to add one of these automatons to my system, I like gadgets and use them to reduce my daily work.

I used to test alk twice a day ha ha. When I added my khg 3 years ago I felt I had so much free time I started looking for something else in the system to get me worried daily ha ha ha

 

[Steve S]

New to using a Gyre flow pump. Any ideas on the preferable way to run this thing?? Constant speed, pulsing mode, random, or Gyre mode?

 

[road_runner]

New to using a Gyre flow pump. Any ideas on the preferable way to run this thing?? Constant speed, pulsing mode, random, or Gyre mode?

Huh?

 

[road_runner]

Just watched a video from mainstream folks, look like they calibrate each disk then save the calibration data to be used when your disk is installed in you aquarium.
That explains why
1- they need to send you monthly l, they need to make sure they characterize the material on your disk for small impurities to get the accuracy and consistency going.
2- you have to have cloud component here, without knowing the calibration data of your disk results might not be ad accurate.
So their cloud save each disk calibration data which represent the exact property of the strips on each individual disk, then when disk is installed, the cloud link the disk and its reading to the calibration data in its database so it calculate the right measurment and account for impurities of each individual strip.

Super cool, really advanced I would say...

 

[Paul Sands]

Just watched a video from mainstream folks, look like they calibrate each disk then save the calibration data to be used when your disk is installed in you aquarium.
That will explain why you have to have cloud component here, without knowing the calibration data of your disk results might not be ad accurate.
So their cloud save each disk calibration data which represent the exact property of the strips on each individual disk, then when disk is installed, the cloud link the disk and its reading to the calibration data in its database so it calculate the right measurment and account for impurities of each individual strip.

Super cool, really advanced I would say...

They could easily embed the calibration data on the disk using extremely old/cheap technology. The decision to use the cloud seems more like their version of DRM and helps make sure you are actively paying every 30 days so that they can insure their revenue stream...

 

[road_runner]

They could easily embed the calibration data on the disk using extremely old/cheap technology. The decision to use the cloud seems more like their version of DRM and helps make sure you are actively paying every 30 days so that they can insure their revenue stream...

not sure how can they do that..
The disk do not have memory or active component since its submerged in the water..
How can you save calibration data? Either on the device(disk) or in the cloud.

Same proccess happen on phones, tablets and many of the consumer electeomic devices..some times you save the data on device and some times in the cloud then you synch it..

Such calibration account for variation and impurities of each strip to yield accurate data...pretty cool

 

[Paul Sands]

not sure how can they do that..
The disk do not have memory or active component since its submerged in the water..
How can you save calibration data? Either on the device(disk) or in the cloud.

You don’t need memory on the disk. You could do it as easily and cheaply as punching a hole that corresponds with the calibration adjustment needed for each test.

And there must be something on the disk already. How does it know that you’ve just put in disk #xxxxxx and correspond that to the calibration that it “has” to download from the cloud?

 

[road_runner]

You don’t need memory on the disk. You could do it as easily and cheaply as punching a hole that corresponds with the calibration adjustment needed for each test.

And there must be something on the disk already. How does it know that you’ve just put in disk #xxxxxx and correspond that to the calibration that it “has” to download from the cloud?

You are describing the synch mechanism that they do using rfid. Am taking about the calibration data itself..
This is data that you cannot store using using the method you described. Usually such calibration data will be at least 1kb to few 10's of kb depen on what they calibrate for...it need some sort of a rom sir...
Synching the data to a specific disk can be done ad you described though they do it more advanced via RFID.
Data needed to be stored in the cloud, if you agree this means cloud component is needed.

 

[road_runner]

Btw this also tells me that their cloud fees is not trivial. They are pushing hug ammount of data from your tank to the cloud. They pay fees on how luch data they push back and forth to the cloud. More reasons for me to believe that the monthly payment is more than fair..

 

[User1]

I know have a spare base unit, but it still takes hours to program because you still can't recover from a backup file. That's why I would rather have the MindStream to monitor the system outside the apex.

I thought if you login to the local network apex under misc there is a save configuration.

 

[Paul Sands]

You are describing the synch mechanism that they do using rfid. Am taking about the calibration data itself..
This is data that you cannot store using using the method you described. Usually such calibration data will be at least 1kb to few 10's of kb depen on what they calibrate for...it need some sort of a rom sir...
Synching the data to a specific disk can be done ad you described though they do it more advanced via RFID.
Data needed to be stored in the cloud, if you agree this means cloud component is needed.

What? They use RFID on the disks! There is more than enough space there to save all the calibration data then. It’s only 10 numbers.

Btw this also tells me that their cloud fees is not trivial. They are pushing hug ammount of data from your tank to the cloud. They pay fees on how luch data they push back and forth to the cloud. More reasons for me to believe that the monthly payment is more than fair..

Huh? It’s only numbers. Yes, it’s a lot of numbers, but that’s and insanely small amount of data. Pennies per month per user on AWS. Pennies.

 

[Jeff_H]

I thought if you login to the local network apex under misc there is a save configuration.

The last time I checked, you can only save the configuration to a text file, and not a configuration file. This text file will allow you to copy-and-past the programming for each device (ect) one at a time to restore the device. To my knowledge, there is no way to save a config file to restore the whole setup in one operation. If you can point me to a new feature I'm unaware of that would be great, but I just did a Google search again and didn't find anything.

As you suggested, I just attempted to log in local and do your recommendation. When I attempt to save the config file it prompts me for my user id and password. When I reenter it, it just fails. I did find a post from last year indicating others had the same issue, but nobody reported a resolution.