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Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread
- Thread starter brandon429
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OP
OP
I've been updating the thread with my own preventative rip cleans from time to time. That above is to demonstrate the power of both nitrifiers and coral- my reef was fully drained for a little over thirty minutes my own personal air exposure record. Ok who's going forty
The detritus starts to accumulate over the months as I travel and neglect the reefbowl. All frags are removed, the tank drained, and water is flushed in and out to rid the upper sandbed layer of its detritus, then skip cycle put back.
Reefbowl= meanest treated reef on this board but is like energizer bunny
The takeaway is that rip cleans don't hurt your aquarium, they're beneficial. No need to not refill your reef, go ahead and put water back in it pretty quick
but I thought if my little reef isn't dead by lunchtime today then it proves we need to quit hesitating with our investments and just clean them time to time and be deliberate. ***Notice*** me putting off cleaning for months made the walls a scummy mess of algae and cyano. I pan down in the bowl to show only the glass takes the invader, no matter how much grows on glass none grows on the reef because coralline and coral flesh are bio excluders and the only place the invader can grow is on the glass, if the detritus loading is taken care of occasionally
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hotashes
Well-Known Member
I've been updating the thread with my own preventative rip cleans from time to time. That above is to demonstrate the power of both nitrifiers and coral- my reef was fully drained for a little over thirty minutes my own personal air exposure record. Ok who's going forty
The detritus starts to accumulate over the months as I travel and neglect the reefbowl. All frags are removed, the tank drained, and water is flushed in and out to rid the upper sandbed layer of its detritus, then skip cycle put back.
Reefbowl= meanest treated reef on this board but is like energizer bunny
The takeaway is that rip cleans don't hurt your aquarium, they're beneficial. No need to not refill your reef, go ahead and put water back in it pretty quick
***Notice*** me putting off cleaning for months made the walls a scummy mess of algae and cyano. I pan down in the bowl to show only the glass takes the invader, no matter how much grows on glass none grows on the reef because coralline and coral flesh are bio excluders and the only place the invader can grow is on the glass, if the detritus loading is taken care of occasionally
Great work B. What did you use to flush the bowl salt water or RO.
A.
OP
OP
Hey it was regular .023 sw
Fw rinse wouldn't recycle anything but it's harder on my micro benthics such as brittle stars, asterina limpets etc. 35% and drying is enough stress for one Tuesday evening ha
Fw rinse wouldn't recycle anything but it's harder on my micro benthics such as brittle stars, asterina limpets etc. 35% and drying is enough stress for one Tuesday evening ha
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OP
OP
Rip clean results.
Please see the BRS video on sandbed filtration team, it’s great.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...brs-wwc-system-ep7-brstv.487552/#post-5279773
Please see the BRS video on sandbed filtration team, it’s great.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...brs-wwc-system-ep7-brstv.487552/#post-5279773
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OP
OP
This thread amuses me.
These so called "Rip cleans" are basically spending hours picking at algae on rock, and also 100% water changes.
Regularly.
It is comical to think that it could be feasible to anyone who has a tank of a meaningful size.
The "support" he has, of the maintenance procedure he recommends to everyone, is his pico vase. Lol
These so called "Rip cleans" are basically spending hours picking at algae on rock, and also 100% water changes.
Regularly.
It is comical to think that it could be feasible to anyone who has a tank of a meaningful size.
The "support" he has, of the maintenance procedure he recommends to everyone, is his pico vase. Lol
This thread amuses me.
These so called "Rip cleans" are basically spending hours picking at algae on rock, and also 100% water changes.
Regularly.
It is comical to think that it could be feasible to anyone who has a tank of a meaningful size.
The "support" he has, of the maintenance procedure he recommends to everyone, is his pico vase. Lol
My interpretation of Brandon's info is to show that many of our reef keeping assumptions (especially regarding bacteria) are not all that correct. I don't think he would suggest a 100% rip clean on a 500g aquarium (well, maybe if it was the worst case neglected aquarium one could ever imagine!)
I have a small 12g up for 10+ years and even with this small size I don't 'rip clean' in the way that Brandon does for his pico. I manage with 10% WCs, sand vacuuming and a strong 'typhoon' weekly to catch the detritus/uneaten food in a filter sock.
Many ways to successfully keep a reef tank...
Ralph.
OP
OP
Harold is a troll that follows my posts only to cause trouble. He did it on another forum endlessly until I left the forum
www.reef2reef.com
Is that a small aquarium
More tank invasion correction links are coming here...there's always a few brewing in messages.
I guess king James isn't coming out to play, Harold is now quieted as well.
120 gallon rip clean
I’ve decided to perform a rip clean on my 120 with 100% new water. The tank has been running for 5 years and was battling Dino for several months. I used the bacteria method from elegant corals and worked great I haven’t seen Dino in months now. But I tried several other methods including...
www.reef2reef.com
Is that a small aquarium
More tank invasion correction links are coming here...there's always a few brewing in messages.
I guess king James isn't coming out to play, Harold is now quieted as well.
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OP
OP
The "support" he has, of the maintenance procedure he recommends to everyone, is his pico vase. Lol
It's called scalable biology, if you were interested in science chat.
Volumism doesn’t equate to depth of thought, I got that in a fortune cookie last week.
at this point I'd take anything you have to offer as helpful material... literally any helpful contributing link you might have, can do. Would gladly check out any works you might have.
We accept all constructive criticism here...let it be said going forward that this is a works thread, not a hit n run type thread, so to post a challenge here means someone has a background of doing what we do- but better or more efficient. If a critic doesn't have a single works thread we can learn from, that can be linked right after the opening volley, then the build up was all for nothing. Thanks for the bump
B
It's called scalable biology, if you were interested in science chat.
Volumism doesn’t equate to depth of thought, I got that in a fortune cookie last week.
at this point I'd take anything you have to offer as helpful material... literally any helpful contributing link you might have, can do. Would gladly check out any works you might have.
We accept all constructive criticism here...let it be said going forward that this is a works thread, not a hit n run type thread, so to post a challenge here means someone has a background of doing what we do- but better or more efficient. If a critic doesn't have a single works thread we can learn from, that can be linked right after the opening volley, then the build up was all for nothing. Thanks for the bump
B
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I'm thinking of removing all of my sand in my 65 soon. I have constant algae outbreaks. Whenever the sand gets disturbed there is a huge cloud that covers the entire tank. The rockwork makes it hard to get to the sand so I would have to remove them to get to it. I dont want to nuke the tank. That's the only reason I haven't done it yet.
OP
OP
Hey is it possible to just siphon sand out during a couple water change settings
That nutrient cloud will kick up again but you could remove nearly all, input new water on last go and be really fresh start. A little sand around the rock base won’t matter, currents will distribute it out in time
Even still the ideal action is two brute containers: take out all rocks and be rinsing them with saltwater to flood out waste from the rocks, stack in brute #1
Leaving only fish and murk water and sand
Brute #2 is all new change water fresh ready to go
Catch fish somehow and hold elsewhere
Take the entire tank apart and clean it out with vinegar sparkly new, pumps, hoses do the big job. Dump old sand out
Refill tank with new water reinstall hardware all clean
Either use totally new sand, or to avoid this same requirement in 2023, use none
Input rocks and corals back into tank corals don’t need acclimation to new water just go
Acclimate fish last step
Skip cycle rebuild. No nuke, the partial actions are the nuke risk. live rock has all bacteria needed and we need none of the bacteria from the sand, no ramp down phase is needed etc. we literally do not need sand bacteria where normal amounts of reef rock are used, the rock is always enough even if you added more fish upon rebuild.
That nutrient cloud will kick up again but you could remove nearly all, input new water on last go and be really fresh start. A little sand around the rock base won’t matter, currents will distribute it out in time
Even still the ideal action is two brute containers: take out all rocks and be rinsing them with saltwater to flood out waste from the rocks, stack in brute #1
Leaving only fish and murk water and sand
Brute #2 is all new change water fresh ready to go
Catch fish somehow and hold elsewhere
Take the entire tank apart and clean it out with vinegar sparkly new, pumps, hoses do the big job. Dump old sand out
Refill tank with new water reinstall hardware all clean
Either use totally new sand, or to avoid this same requirement in 2023, use none
Input rocks and corals back into tank corals don’t need acclimation to new water just go
Acclimate fish last step
Skip cycle rebuild. No nuke, the partial actions are the nuke risk. live rock has all bacteria needed and we need none of the bacteria from the sand, no ramp down phase is needed etc. we literally do not need sand bacteria where normal amounts of reef rock are used, the rock is always enough even if you added more fish upon rebuild.
OP
OP
I truly truly like that reef as is
Looks exactly like scuba diving and if we did a rip clean we do NOT have to kill your vertical zoanthid growths earned with time and care on the tank walls. We simply wouldn't vinegar that part
I wouldn't vinegar or scrape any part of the encrusting tank walls that look is so hard to earn. Only one posted here, we work around and preserve all that surface area. We would engineer the approach to not change the look of your reef, that's the best vertical wall growths and aging I've seen here, it stays.
Those zoanthids wouldn't die if you left your reef drained for eight hours, they will allow you to work and clean a totally empty reef and will open back up upon hydration. the coralline walls, corals on walls, color palette showing maturation most only hope for... depending on how much work you want to do to rid cloud we must preserve all that
We don't want a sterile new tank look here, the ideal is simply to de cloud and leave all that five o'clock purple shadow in place. ***wonderful** project thanks tons for posting.
It's a tough choice here, I have trouble seeing any bad parts but I know reef owners know and have an expectation regarding all aspects of their reef. Whichever parts you want reworked we sure can.
Keep brainstorming with us on initial planning, but off the bat I still feel like lifting out rocks and rinsing cloud off them with saltwater is ideal, we are restoring flow with that action, ridding detritus. Buying easy more years of maturation for the fine rocks. Your sandbed is easily removed that's not deep at all. Anything living/adhered to walls (wow I'm jealous it looks reefy for real) can stay during cleaning It just hangs out in the air while you spot clean algae off. Work around coralline on walls, don't remove for sure.
** unlike my system earlier which stayed drained for half an hour, don't run that here* as it will bleach your sidewall coralline a bit, it's purple stands out now. Have a mister bottle of sw handy, keep the coralline wall portions wetted if you do a full tank takedown cleaning. You could detail razor scrape any small algae patches from glass, leave the goodies, simple peroxide burn off light GHA growth from the rocks externally as you clean them, and reassemble this whole thing skip cycle and cloudless and 90% as mature looking as it is now, we keep this ion veneer you've earned we wouldn't go full sterile clean here no way.
Of course lesser actions will work. Increments aren't really a loss risk here as your sand isn't deep, partial disturbances are nutrient clouds here and algae food. If you do the creative takedown cleaning however we can set that up in safe order of ops, a total water change + FULL one pass de clouding will energize that reef and it will take on food hungrily as there's no nutrient stores to limit your input shortly after cleaning.
You have so much encrusted life on the flooring with rocks and corals, we won't notice if you go bare bottom. Thanks tons for posting this is just perfect pre analysis practice for our thread. Any drain cleaning even with misting will lightly bleach out those wall growths of coralline but leaving the coralline in place makes it regen fast, no scrape and keep misted will be just fine. I still say we rip clean it and be thorough vs incremental because clearly you are going to get years not months before next one is needed, bioloading is balanced here, active surface area off the charts. Your reef is 100% balanced already, any trained diver saw that in your opening pics. We just want to de cloud it as insurance for next ~ 2 yrs or so. This tank and all life in it will be energized, not harmed, by a 100% new water change and de clouding run. Nothing beats before pics, these are already amazing.
B
Looks exactly like scuba diving and if we did a rip clean we do NOT have to kill your vertical zoanthid growths earned with time and care on the tank walls. We simply wouldn't vinegar that part
I wouldn't vinegar or scrape any part of the encrusting tank walls that look is so hard to earn. Only one posted here, we work around and preserve all that surface area. We would engineer the approach to not change the look of your reef, that's the best vertical wall growths and aging I've seen here, it stays.
Those zoanthids wouldn't die if you left your reef drained for eight hours, they will allow you to work and clean a totally empty reef and will open back up upon hydration. the coralline walls, corals on walls, color palette showing maturation most only hope for... depending on how much work you want to do to rid cloud we must preserve all that
We don't want a sterile new tank look here, the ideal is simply to de cloud and leave all that five o'clock purple shadow in place. ***wonderful** project thanks tons for posting.
It's a tough choice here, I have trouble seeing any bad parts but I know reef owners know and have an expectation regarding all aspects of their reef. Whichever parts you want reworked we sure can.
Keep brainstorming with us on initial planning, but off the bat I still feel like lifting out rocks and rinsing cloud off them with saltwater is ideal, we are restoring flow with that action, ridding detritus. Buying easy more years of maturation for the fine rocks. Your sandbed is easily removed that's not deep at all. Anything living/adhered to walls (wow I'm jealous it looks reefy for real) can stay during cleaning It just hangs out in the air while you spot clean algae off. Work around coralline on walls, don't remove for sure.
** unlike my system earlier which stayed drained for half an hour, don't run that here* as it will bleach your sidewall coralline a bit, it's purple stands out now. Have a mister bottle of sw handy, keep the coralline wall portions wetted if you do a full tank takedown cleaning. You could detail razor scrape any small algae patches from glass, leave the goodies, simple peroxide burn off light GHA growth from the rocks externally as you clean them, and reassemble this whole thing skip cycle and cloudless and 90% as mature looking as it is now, we keep this ion veneer you've earned we wouldn't go full sterile clean here no way.
Of course lesser actions will work. Increments aren't really a loss risk here as your sand isn't deep, partial disturbances are nutrient clouds here and algae food. If you do the creative takedown cleaning however we can set that up in safe order of ops, a total water change + FULL one pass de clouding will energize that reef and it will take on food hungrily as there's no nutrient stores to limit your input shortly after cleaning.
You have so much encrusted life on the flooring with rocks and corals, we won't notice if you go bare bottom. Thanks tons for posting this is just perfect pre analysis practice for our thread. Any drain cleaning even with misting will lightly bleach out those wall growths of coralline but leaving the coralline in place makes it regen fast, no scrape and keep misted will be just fine. I still say we rip clean it and be thorough vs incremental because clearly you are going to get years not months before next one is needed, bioloading is balanced here, active surface area off the charts. Your reef is 100% balanced already, any trained diver saw that in your opening pics. We just want to de cloud it as insurance for next ~ 2 yrs or so. This tank and all life in it will be energized, not harmed, by a 100% new water change and de clouding run. Nothing beats before pics, these are already amazing.
B
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OP
OP
you get that much coralline under LED's ??
I wouldn't bother trying to kill light green algae mixed in with coralline on walls nor light cyano, they're beautiful and -balanced- and isolated, leave them. The mere cleaning and de cloud is likely to kill off those patches anyway, but I hope they stay. They're in proportional balance here, add color, are are legitimate reef organisms when in balance.
Keep peroxide off major portions of those rocks, use power squirt gun and saltwater to rinse and jet them out, peroxide only accurately on algae anchor areas. i once commandeered a buzz lightyear pressure pump toy gun from a medium sized infant for reef use, the action was initially protested but not when she got to shoot the rocks.
Peroxide harms nothing especially bacteria (a big misnomer, it's too diluted to harm our goodies) but it will bleach out that fine coralline we are intending to preserve. Be exacting with it
I wouldn't bother trying to kill light green algae mixed in with coralline on walls nor light cyano, they're beautiful and -balanced- and isolated, leave them. The mere cleaning and de cloud is likely to kill off those patches anyway, but I hope they stay. They're in proportional balance here, add color, are are legitimate reef organisms when in balance.
Keep peroxide off major portions of those rocks, use power squirt gun and saltwater to rinse and jet them out, peroxide only accurately on algae anchor areas. i once commandeered a buzz lightyear pressure pump toy gun from a medium sized infant for reef use, the action was initially protested but not when she got to shoot the rocks.
Peroxide harms nothing especially bacteria (a big misnomer, it's too diluted to harm our goodies) but it will bleach out that fine coralline we are intending to preserve. Be exacting with it
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OP
OP
It didn't kill any of my rock coralline when I changed to led but it did stop all new growth on the glass which I enjoy not having to scrape off. When my system was on power compacts I had to use a coat hanger wire tip to scrape it off, the system would fill to opaque full coverage of coralline...problematic levels to keep a clear viewing window old videos show.
Start a poll on the main page to see if anyone else deals with less coralline after the big move away from fluorescents and halide setups.
Start a poll on the main page to see if anyone else deals with less coralline after the big move away from fluorescents and halide setups.
OP
OP
Start a poll.
lets try this redirection:
What's your take on his system above
How would you recommend proceeding if he simply wants less clouding, being able to work in the system without minor algae blooms resulting. What's your eco breakdown for his posted before pics?
We welcome your analysis for this system or the prior ones...be specific on improvements available that's what we're collecting here. This is purely an actioner's thread and we want as many contributions as possible.
I can see a case being made about taking no action here. This reef is at the peak of its bell curve, but aquarists have their nuances...other reefers would want to rip that whole thing clean and assemble an Instagram-quality bare scape ecosystem but some reefers want to keep the crusty, and dispatch with the cloud.
How can he go about his particular goals without a recycle? Press for something that doesn't require take down cleaning. Large tankers always want the innovations that maximize efficiency without having to make new water/spend a whole weekend moving and getting poked up by live rock. Until we get a better offer the big surgery is the recommend based on trending.
lets try this redirection:
What's your take on his system above
How would you recommend proceeding if he simply wants less clouding, being able to work in the system without minor algae blooms resulting. What's your eco breakdown for his posted before pics?
We welcome your analysis for this system or the prior ones...be specific on improvements available that's what we're collecting here. This is purely an actioner's thread and we want as many contributions as possible.
I can see a case being made about taking no action here. This reef is at the peak of its bell curve, but aquarists have their nuances...other reefers would want to rip that whole thing clean and assemble an Instagram-quality bare scape ecosystem but some reefers want to keep the crusty, and dispatch with the cloud.
How can he go about his particular goals without a recycle? Press for something that doesn't require take down cleaning. Large tankers always want the innovations that maximize efficiency without having to make new water/spend a whole weekend moving and getting poked up by live rock. Until we get a better offer the big surgery is the recommend based on trending.
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OP
OP
just thought of a no takedown option using two brutes. One is full of new made water.
Drain this tank down and catch those fish on the way for external holding that's the tricky part, but you can truly flush this reef out when fish are out. Without removing rocks
As you drain this tank water, do not disturb sand one iota
Catch clean water.
catch it in the other empty brute.
Have a powerful pump and hose attached in this brute, to pump back in powerfully.
Drain this reef to the sand.
Take all the sand out by scoops.
and when it's drained, ready to flush as fish sit swimming in a bucket. All your corals stay in. It's the 60+ gallon version of the reefbowl change above, so it works.
Bare tank in air is when you spot apply peroxide to mild rock algae. In the air is an amplifier and keeps it on target.
Pump back in the clean water and direct it on the rocks. And in the bottom crevices, fill this mud water up to 20% capacity and stop.
Siphon all this muck water out
Repeat, direct the strong pump hose output to rocks crevices corners and walls, storm time.
Muck water collects. Fill to 30% from the extracted water bin pump system.
Siphon all the brown water back out to totally empty. You can be taking bits of ungrabbed sand this whole time.
When you used up all the extracted water as a rinse, this cloud is gone or low enough to be offset by dilution, correctly, heckuva plan. Fill with the new water, put fish back in sparkling reef post after pics yesterday
Drain this tank down and catch those fish on the way for external holding that's the tricky part, but you can truly flush this reef out when fish are out. Without removing rocks
As you drain this tank water, do not disturb sand one iota
Catch clean water.
catch it in the other empty brute.
Have a powerful pump and hose attached in this brute, to pump back in powerfully.
Drain this reef to the sand.
Take all the sand out by scoops.
and when it's drained, ready to flush as fish sit swimming in a bucket. All your corals stay in. It's the 60+ gallon version of the reefbowl change above, so it works.
Bare tank in air is when you spot apply peroxide to mild rock algae. In the air is an amplifier and keeps it on target.
Pump back in the clean water and direct it on the rocks. And in the bottom crevices, fill this mud water up to 20% capacity and stop.
Siphon all this muck water out
Repeat, direct the strong pump hose output to rocks crevices corners and walls, storm time.
Muck water collects. Fill to 30% from the extracted water bin pump system.
Siphon all the brown water back out to totally empty. You can be taking bits of ungrabbed sand this whole time.
When you used up all the extracted water as a rinse, this cloud is gone or low enough to be offset by dilution, correctly, heckuva plan. Fill with the new water, put fish back in sparkling reef post after pics yesterday
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