john.m.cole3
cyclOps
new DRY rock
Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread
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john.m.cole3
cyclOps
current system. still in disarray from recent move. but you can get the gist of the rock condition
OP
OP
If you want to restart the tank I cannot debate that option of not moving old rock. I believe the intention is to move no waste at all with that extreme of a substrate changeout, it's a non detritus move that's for sure and detritus was my initial concern.
Your old rock is purple, reefy, and preferable to the old rock visually in every possible way, that's a slant into keeping it. It seems 100% coralline aged? Why dump it
Consider one core part of our cycling thread
a whole section is dedicated to moving group b rocks successfully. Showed pics of how I take home mr aquarium cured rock and make ten yr tanks with them and corals added same day of the tank setup. People with broken tanks or emergency hospital tank setups have to skip cycles sometimes...so if you are wanting new rock and zero detritus risk that's perfectly fine to start with the above
But if you want to move LR you can easily verify its status for transport with no recycle, both options are still a no detritus transfer
Also, if you are going new rocks I'd go new wet pack sand. Why start with nutrient free base rock but sand grains prior exposed to po4 start them both new
Your old rock is purple, reefy, and preferable to the old rock visually in every possible way, that's a slant into keeping it. It seems 100% coralline aged? Why dump it
Consider one core part of our cycling thread
a whole section is dedicated to moving group b rocks successfully. Showed pics of how I take home mr aquarium cured rock and make ten yr tanks with them and corals added same day of the tank setup. People with broken tanks or emergency hospital tank setups have to skip cycles sometimes...so if you are wanting new rock and zero detritus risk that's perfectly fine to start with the above
But if you want to move LR you can easily verify its status for transport with no recycle, both options are still a no detritus transfer
Also, if you are going new rocks I'd go new wet pack sand. Why start with nutrient free base rock but sand grains prior exposed to po4 start them both new
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
I have 40 lbs of wet/live sand sitting in the garage since Monday.
I really like my new aquascape. (more pics to come tomorrow).
BIG QUESTION:can i have my cake and eat it too??? I want my new scape formations and want to skip the cycle. I have... 40 pounds of 14 month old rock in current system, 50 pounds dry rock/aragonite sculptures, 40 pounds live/wet carib sea special grade sand, dr. tims one and only, bottle of biospira, and a bottle of prime.
Give me your honest opinion here (also, remember I am unsure of what has been done to my current tank (maybe copper dosed)) if you think I can safely proceed w/ above mentioned list, wait for Triton results, or just bang my head into a wall and eat burritos.
I really like my new aquascape. (more pics to come tomorrow).
BIG QUESTION:can i have my cake and eat it too??? I want my new scape formations and want to skip the cycle. I have... 40 pounds of 14 month old rock in current system, 50 pounds dry rock/aragonite sculptures, 40 pounds live/wet carib sea special grade sand, dr. tims one and only, bottle of biospira, and a bottle of prime.
Give me your honest opinion here (also, remember I am unsure of what has been done to my current tank (maybe copper dosed)) if you think I can safely proceed w/ above mentioned list, wait for Triton results, or just bang my head into a wall and eat burritos.
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Would corraline be able to grow in a system w/ copper present?
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Could I put current system rock and new rock in my new system to jump start the tank and then remove current system rock down the road?
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
I desperately want to keep my old rock, but also want a really cool scape for the new tank (having cake and eating it too)
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
My garden hose was busy making 100 gallons of RODI today, so I got creative and rinsed my sand.
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
the sand is in the bucket under running water BTW
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
new scape
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Hard turned for about 30 minutes per bag. I'm tired, lol
OP
OP
http://reef2reef.com/threads/silicate.239765/#post-2805677
reasons to begin a tank with a rinsed sandbed upped by +1 only from the high surface area Si component angle. Its not case closed, its case considered and I still can't find any value in keeping the original silt component, even if we add the liquid doser presented with the sand and sink it down, my vote is to start by taking it out.
reasons to begin a tank with a rinsed sandbed upped by +1 only from the high surface area Si component angle. Its not case closed, its case considered and I still can't find any value in keeping the original silt component, even if we add the liquid doser presented with the sand and sink it down, my vote is to start by taking it out.
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OP
OP
Team
I've been able to get to learn about John's reef above in a neat way, for the first time am getting to verify the actions we take in type here. He did the skip cycle home tank transfer (with full sandbed rinse) before we met.
John's tank is running predictably and access for cleaning was utilized today we took some snaps. it's gold input for this specific thread... we get to track post-rinse follow up for 72~ gal large setup in person. Not just making inferences off a tiny pico reef for once ~
So his tank has been transferred for a little while now, skip cycle home transfer completed- and massive sandbed rinse in tap water (then post saltwater follow up rinse) was how it was setup at the new home. No old matter from the prior sandbed was transferred... it was blast-rinsed in tap water + saltwater and then used in the new tank.
After a few weeks running uber clean, he got some light cyano patches and the common brown growths we see that many refer to as diatoms et al
The biota one expects from a new cycled substrate awaiting coral and coralline deposition... we didn't go dose crazy we just utilized this clean sandbed access and simply changed ten gallons of water with old school bed cleaning.
**look how no silt storm comes out near the cleaner*** entire point of this thread.
The top layer had some detritus, he has animals in the tank and corals. But the bottom layers are clean due to rinse start... so when we cleaned the top inch we cleaned his whole bed again with no recycle
Some of the tanks reading this post would have a mini cycle doing this in their tank...hands off with no other option. Whatever invader lands on their sandbed becomes a resident ( hands off reefing mode)
got to see the action of simply cleaning the whole tank for a catch-up run vs going down the path of continual water dosing. John has been able to feed a diverse mix of frozen feeds to his corals by creating such a clean zone to work in... that fine feeding requires some export occasionally and I was amazed at how clean his tank was during siphon
He was free to act with another hands-on event to simply deny the reef the ability to head into a problem zone.
what diatom rule is there for new tanks if there is no silt, waste, and storage?
permit no invasion, exclude detritus decisively when you get the opportunity and you will be able to make your reef run without invasion and constant sandbed headaches.
Many people with large tanks weathered the early challenges just fine with a non accessed sandbed, and this cleaning seems counterintuitive to what works for them.
That is not a problem, this technique is just another option in reefing where if a new start is impending for any reason, you can indeed access a sandbed in a predictable and safe manner. Experimenting with running a clean system from the start is harmless as well.
I've been able to get to learn about John's reef above in a neat way, for the first time am getting to verify the actions we take in type here. He did the skip cycle home tank transfer (with full sandbed rinse) before we met.
John's tank is running predictably and access for cleaning was utilized today we took some snaps. it's gold input for this specific thread... we get to track post-rinse follow up for 72~ gal large setup in person. Not just making inferences off a tiny pico reef for once ~
So his tank has been transferred for a little while now, skip cycle home transfer completed- and massive sandbed rinse in tap water (then post saltwater follow up rinse) was how it was setup at the new home. No old matter from the prior sandbed was transferred... it was blast-rinsed in tap water + saltwater and then used in the new tank.
After a few weeks running uber clean, he got some light cyano patches and the common brown growths we see that many refer to as diatoms et al
The biota one expects from a new cycled substrate awaiting coral and coralline deposition... we didn't go dose crazy we just utilized this clean sandbed access and simply changed ten gallons of water with old school bed cleaning.
**look how no silt storm comes out near the cleaner*** entire point of this thread.
The top layer had some detritus, he has animals in the tank and corals. But the bottom layers are clean due to rinse start... so when we cleaned the top inch we cleaned his whole bed again with no recycle
Some of the tanks reading this post would have a mini cycle doing this in their tank...hands off with no other option. Whatever invader lands on their sandbed becomes a resident ( hands off reefing mode)
got to see the action of simply cleaning the whole tank for a catch-up run vs going down the path of continual water dosing. John has been able to feed a diverse mix of frozen feeds to his corals by creating such a clean zone to work in... that fine feeding requires some export occasionally and I was amazed at how clean his tank was during siphon
He was free to act with another hands-on event to simply deny the reef the ability to head into a problem zone.
what diatom rule is there for new tanks if there is no silt, waste, and storage?
permit no invasion, exclude detritus decisively when you get the opportunity and you will be able to make your reef run without invasion and constant sandbed headaches.
Many people with large tanks weathered the early challenges just fine with a non accessed sandbed, and this cleaning seems counterintuitive to what works for them.
That is not a problem, this technique is just another option in reefing where if a new start is impending for any reason, you can indeed access a sandbed in a predictable and safe manner. Experimenting with running a clean system from the start is harmless as well.
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john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Not to mention all polyps remained extended and BTAS stayed open while siphoning. I Even nudged my candy cane a few times and he wasn't agitated bc all the crap was sucked away and not mass released in the water column. My tank was set up with intentions of regular cleanings in mind. ***breaking the law, breaking the law**
Brandon suggested I post my story here. I just spend the day doing a complete teardown on a 2+ year old 36 gallon bowfront and replacing the crushed coral with live sand and rescaping. I took a lot of pictures. I think I will just include thumbnails to keep from making this too, too long.
Before
I was having a lot of problems with cyano, diatoms, and vermetid snails. I don't over feed. In fact, I am very stingy with my feeding (2x a week). Nitrates still 40-50. Detritus in the substrate.
First step was to prep and plan. I wanted to keep a lot of the water because I don't have a RODI unit and that would have been a lot of trips back to the fish store. I had several buckets, and 10 gallons of new salt, so I planned on about a 30% water change.
Sterilite tub with a heater and small powerhead. I kept the powerhead right at the water's surface so it could increase oxygenation. I siphoned water from the top of the tank in here for fish, cuc, and any rocks with corals growing on them.
The live rock with no polyps. The large fan coral and the blue coral were both collected by my father back in the 60's when he was in the Air Force on Johnston Island. They were in his closet for 40 years. I have had them in my sump curing for a couple of months. They will be part of the new scape.
Did I mention how much I hate vermetid snails? With the white hot intensity of ten thousand suns.
Corals and fish and Kraken, my rather large banded serpent star. He was a lot smaller when I got him.
Since I needed to save a lot of water, I didn't want to stir up detritus into the water I was keeping. I left one rock in the tank to put the siphon against as a bit of a barrier.
Scooped a lot of the coral with part of a failed fish trap I made a few months ago. Then it was shop vac time. I even used the crevice tool. Then I got a little bit of water and rinsed the sides and bottom and shop vac'ed again.
OK, here, the pictures stop because time was a bit of a problem. My wife decided to paint a spot behind my tank that has been bothering her, and I was trying to decide how I was going to rescape. The plastic tub with the fish and coral was starting to have some slime buildup from the corals. The frogspawn put sweepers out, so I stopped taking pictures and just put the thing back together
I used CaribSea live sand for the first time and I loved it. No cloudiness. I put in 40 lbs. Then I used some reef putty and kinda played around with the rock. Since I knew some of my coral rock would need to be used, I filled the tank and scaped in stages. I put a few inches in and then created the base. I worked above the water line with live rock until I wanted to use a piece that had corals (blastos, Cyphastrea, and GSP mostly) and then I would add more water. I ended up being about 3 gallons off in my calculations. Some of that water, I just couldn't pour back in, so I made a quick trip to my LFS. Here are a few shots of the finished product. The only casualty was my Hollywood Stunner, which I grew from a tiny 5 polyp frag. I was hoping to make it a centerpiece. Now, I guess I have two. I was upset at first, but they are fast growing.
Thanks for reading. If you see any corals out of place, or next to a neighbor they shouldn't be, please let me know. I am thinking about getting some sort of encrusting coral to start growing on the fan. Suggestions welcome. It is currently until my overflow box, so lighting might be an issue there.
Before
I was having a lot of problems with cyano, diatoms, and vermetid snails. I don't over feed. In fact, I am very stingy with my feeding (2x a week). Nitrates still 40-50. Detritus in the substrate.
First step was to prep and plan. I wanted to keep a lot of the water because I don't have a RODI unit and that would have been a lot of trips back to the fish store. I had several buckets, and 10 gallons of new salt, so I planned on about a 30% water change.
Sterilite tub with a heater and small powerhead. I kept the powerhead right at the water's surface so it could increase oxygenation. I siphoned water from the top of the tank in here for fish, cuc, and any rocks with corals growing on them.
The live rock with no polyps. The large fan coral and the blue coral were both collected by my father back in the 60's when he was in the Air Force on Johnston Island. They were in his closet for 40 years. I have had them in my sump curing for a couple of months. They will be part of the new scape.
Did I mention how much I hate vermetid snails? With the white hot intensity of ten thousand suns.
Corals and fish and Kraken, my rather large banded serpent star. He was a lot smaller when I got him.
Since I needed to save a lot of water, I didn't want to stir up detritus into the water I was keeping. I left one rock in the tank to put the siphon against as a bit of a barrier.
Scooped a lot of the coral with part of a failed fish trap I made a few months ago. Then it was shop vac time. I even used the crevice tool. Then I got a little bit of water and rinsed the sides and bottom and shop vac'ed again.
OK, here, the pictures stop because time was a bit of a problem. My wife decided to paint a spot behind my tank that has been bothering her, and I was trying to decide how I was going to rescape. The plastic tub with the fish and coral was starting to have some slime buildup from the corals. The frogspawn put sweepers out, so I stopped taking pictures and just put the thing back together
I used CaribSea live sand for the first time and I loved it. No cloudiness. I put in 40 lbs. Then I used some reef putty and kinda played around with the rock. Since I knew some of my coral rock would need to be used, I filled the tank and scaped in stages. I put a few inches in and then created the base. I worked above the water line with live rock until I wanted to use a piece that had corals (blastos, Cyphastrea, and GSP mostly) and then I would add more water. I ended up being about 3 gallons off in my calculations. Some of that water, I just couldn't pour back in, so I made a quick trip to my LFS. Here are a few shots of the finished product. The only casualty was my Hollywood Stunner, which I grew from a tiny 5 polyp frag. I was hoping to make it a centerpiece. Now, I guess I have two. I was upset at first, but they are fast growing.
Thanks for reading. If you see any corals out of place, or next to a neighbor they shouldn't be, please let me know. I am thinking about getting some sort of encrusting coral to start growing on the fan. Suggestions welcome. It is currently until my overflow box, so lighting might be an issue there.
OP
OP
I am shocked at the quality and detail of this documentation and new substrate is sharp looking
you and John have boosted the reference material for tank reworks here notably, most appreciated
Excellent documentation of cuts I am not happy you couldn't produce that from stock footage lol but appreciate seeing the reality in substrate work. We had a friend get sick on here from that happening, some bacteria got in his cut... the documentation is vitally helpful to include with the reality of tank transfer biology so readers can prepare. What always pokes me is the hammer coral I think I'm sting allergic to it
you and John have boosted the reference material for tank reworks here notably, most appreciated
Excellent documentation of cuts I am not happy you couldn't produce that from stock footage lol but appreciate seeing the reality in substrate work. We had a friend get sick on here from that happening, some bacteria got in his cut... the documentation is vitally helpful to include with the reality of tank transfer biology so readers can prepare. What always pokes me is the hammer coral I think I'm sting allergic to it
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OP
OP
Shollis the pics are gold. If I had to sum up your bioprocedure going solely off pics, I'd say you transferred no detritus
The transferred bacteria within the people cured rock are so massive they do just fine taking the place of the prior active sandbed doing half the nitrification work.
nice transfer
The transferred bacteria within the people cured rock are so massive they do just fine taking the place of the prior active sandbed doing half the nitrification work.
nice transfer
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Thank you. I know I did a little bit. Where I did not plan well was temp of the water in the tank while refilling. When I started scaping, I noticed a 6-8 degree difference in the water in the sterilite and the tank and the tank was dropping fast. I was worried about my fish and shocking them. My heater is in my sump, and I was having trouble getting the water level high enough to not burn out the return pump. I know I had to put a bit of dirty water back in, but it wasn't much. I also picked up some nassarius snails at the LFS to help keep the sand turned over. The teardown let me take stock of my cuc, lol.
OP
OP
Yes every bit of that detail is someone's prep just boosted thanks tons.
The rule breaking (which is advocated heartily here) was doing it all at once vs sections of the bed.
It is not required to do in sections, preserving some rotting waste compared to preserving none turns out to be a dated practice fueling thousands of problem algae tanks.
The rule breaking (which is advocated heartily here) was doing it all at once vs sections of the bed.
It is not required to do in sections, preserving some rotting waste compared to preserving none turns out to be a dated practice fueling thousands of problem algae tanks.
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