The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)
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Yup, agree with all of this.
For the record, my Foxface lo is still small and maybe growing slowly(?) but he is fat and appears healthy. He just wants more food than I like to feed the fish. (Phosphorus was 0.138ppm two days ago). No spots, no shallow body wall, bubble algae is gone, the fish are thriving (edit)~2 months after adding a sketchy Foxface using no quarantine. Time flies!
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Paul B
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Neptune, I almost always had a hippo tang in my tank. They are the only tangs worthy. 
blstravler
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So I started in this hobby about about 25 years ago didn’t have a reef for the first ten. Back then it was under gravel filters a heater and not much more. Eventually I got a reef and had great success - eventually working my way up to a 180 gallon all SPS. Then I took a break, built a house and started a family. Recently (May 2019) I got back and purchased a RS 425xl.
It amazes me how much everything has changed.
Everyone starts a tank with dry rock now, only dosing, all LED (some T5), can’t have 0 Nitrates or 0 Phos anymore, no more venturi skimmers , no more MH, no more live rock, etc. However the one most unfortunate change I see is people attitudes. It used to be a hobby where a lot of people relied on each other for help. With the Internet giving everyone a voice it creates a lot of discord and strife. MANY people think they have all the answers while it’s nothing more then popular opinion. Which at first I almost got suckered into then I decided to do a mix of what I had done in the past.
I started the tank with dry rock, but I cycled with fish (I was lambasted for using fish - was told it was cruelty). After my cycle I added some nice sized pieces of live rock from a good friend (I was lambasted again for using live rock - was told it would contain parasites, etc). The minute I saw algae I add a massive clean up crew (onceagain I was told my tank had to “go through the ugly period” and I was wasting my time with a CUC) I also introduced large amounts of pods to the tank (was told they would only die). I added a single SPS - cheap no-name brown frag from my LFS (was told it would die becauseI wasn’t dosing that Calcium Reactors aren’t as good and we’re old outdate tech was also told that “you couldn’t add coral for a year”) I than started to add the fish I knew I wanted (again was told I had to wait to add more fish - even though I still had the fish I cycled with and that they would die with out QC (they didn’t)). I keep Nitrates at 0 and just a tad of Phosphates (again was told I HAD TO HAVE NITRATES!!! By a lot of people). I went with a LifeReef skimmer - was told only the hour glass skimmers “really work for a serious reef tank” once my brown SPS frag started to encrust and grow I add more corals - again was told I couldn’t do that in the first year.
So here I am months later and I have no issues with my fish or corals. I feed heavily with many of the foods Paul B mentions. Additionally my past experience has taught me which fish work and which often don’t on a reef. I have never used a QT. I have only lost one fish - he jumped. My pod population is very high and my Mandarin is a fata$$. As well the live rock I introduced brought in various sponges, a big population of small brittle stars, Coraline and various other micro fauna. One of my favorite things to do is grab a flashlight after my lights are off and watch my sand and rock come to life with all of the critters. I do water changes about as often as in the last time - every 6-8 weeks and eventually they will be less and less.
So to bring this back to Paul’s first post - I think this hobby has changed and many tanks are too sterile - dry rock, dosing exact chemicals,huge tend toward bare bottom, and small amounts of carefully placed rock - how often do you see members ask how their ‘scape’ looks instead of thinking about if they have enough rock? So many new tanks don’t have the biodiversity of the reefs we are trying to replicate in our homes. In my opinion I think this is huge piece to what Paul is saying (maybe not directly) - if we have the biodiversity in our tanks then it’s inhabitants will be better off - and this especially goes for our fish.
It amazes me how much everything has changed.
Everyone starts a tank with dry rock now, only dosing, all LED (some T5), can’t have 0 Nitrates or 0 Phos anymore, no more venturi skimmers , no more MH, no more live rock, etc. However the one most unfortunate change I see is people attitudes. It used to be a hobby where a lot of people relied on each other for help. With the Internet giving everyone a voice it creates a lot of discord and strife. MANY people think they have all the answers while it’s nothing more then popular opinion. Which at first I almost got suckered into then I decided to do a mix of what I had done in the past.
I started the tank with dry rock, but I cycled with fish (I was lambasted for using fish - was told it was cruelty). After my cycle I added some nice sized pieces of live rock from a good friend (I was lambasted again for using live rock - was told it would contain parasites, etc). The minute I saw algae I add a massive clean up crew (onceagain I was told my tank had to “go through the ugly period” and I was wasting my time with a CUC) I also introduced large amounts of pods to the tank (was told they would only die). I added a single SPS - cheap no-name brown frag from my LFS (was told it would die becauseI wasn’t dosing that Calcium Reactors aren’t as good and we’re old outdate tech was also told that “you couldn’t add coral for a year”) I than started to add the fish I knew I wanted (again was told I had to wait to add more fish - even though I still had the fish I cycled with and that they would die with out QC (they didn’t)). I keep Nitrates at 0 and just a tad of Phosphates (again was told I HAD TO HAVE NITRATES!!! By a lot of people). I went with a LifeReef skimmer - was told only the hour glass skimmers “really work for a serious reef tank” once my brown SPS frag started to encrust and grow I add more corals - again was told I couldn’t do that in the first year.
So here I am months later and I have no issues with my fish or corals. I feed heavily with many of the foods Paul B mentions. Additionally my past experience has taught me which fish work and which often don’t on a reef. I have never used a QT. I have only lost one fish - he jumped. My pod population is very high and my Mandarin is a fata$$. As well the live rock I introduced brought in various sponges, a big population of small brittle stars, Coraline and various other micro fauna. One of my favorite things to do is grab a flashlight after my lights are off and watch my sand and rock come to life with all of the critters. I do water changes about as often as in the last time - every 6-8 weeks and eventually they will be less and less.
So to bring this back to Paul’s first post - I think this hobby has changed and many tanks are too sterile - dry rock, dosing exact chemicals,huge tend toward bare bottom, and small amounts of carefully placed rock - how often do you see members ask how their ‘scape’ looks instead of thinking about if they have enough rock? So many new tanks don’t have the biodiversity of the reefs we are trying to replicate in our homes. In my opinion I think this is huge piece to what Paul is saying (maybe not directly) - if we have the biodiversity in our tanks then it’s inhabitants will be better off - and this especially goes for our fish.
sixty_reefer
5000 Club Member
Great write up my friend if only more ppl do what you did.
So I got married last Friday and before I did I was talking about how I could do with a bigger tank. My wife to be replied if you want a bigger one then get one as a wedding present very much to my surprise. You don't ask twice in such situations so the RSR250 is coming out and a Deltec 1500s will be going in in a week or so. Downside is I have to strengthen the floor joists first but as Paul would say I'm a geezer so I will do it this coming weekend all being well.
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Paul B
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Atoll, first of all, "you got someone to Marry You!!!!!?
Second, I had my fish before I met my wife and she knew without a shadow of a doubt that I would always have fish so that was never in any negotiations. I know a lot of "men" in this hobby have to "ask" their wife if they can get a fish, or a coral, rock, bigger tank etc. I say, if you have to do that, either you have the wrong wife, or........OK, I won't say it.
My wife can spend whatever she wants on whatever she wants, and so can I. If we run out of money we will eat cake. But it will be good cake.
"Our" money is both of our money and we have equal say as what to spend it on. We are very happily married for 45 years and so far it has worked out fine. She does complain however about how I dress and how I shave. I have selective hearing and like my fish tank, I can filter out what I want to hear.
If she wants me to do something there is no reason to nag me about it for 6 months.
Second, I had my fish before I met my wife and she knew without a shadow of a doubt that I would always have fish so that was never in any negotiations. I know a lot of "men" in this hobby have to "ask" their wife if they can get a fish, or a coral, rock, bigger tank etc. I say, if you have to do that, either you have the wrong wife, or........OK, I won't say it.
My wife can spend whatever she wants on whatever she wants, and so can I. If we run out of money we will eat cake. But it will be good cake.
"Our" money is both of our money and we have equal say as what to spend it on. We are very happily married for 45 years and so far it has worked out fine. She does complain however about how I dress and how I shave. I have selective hearing and like my fish tank, I can filter out what I want to hear.
If she wants me to do something there is no reason to nag me about it for 6 months.
We are similar Paul my wife is cool. Not sure she likes the idea of ne ripping up the living room floor but she understands.
We don't argue about money and she knew it was my hobby and that I will have another tank, just a matter of when and the opportunity was there with a bargain hardly used tank.
She can buy whatever she wants just like me. Alls good here and she is a little gem but lucky to have me lol
We don't argue about money and she knew it was my hobby and that I will have another tank, just a matter of when and the opportunity was there with a bargain hardly used tank.
She can buy whatever she wants just like me. Alls good here and she is a little gem but lucky to have me lol
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Paul B
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I just got a great deal. I went into an LFS and got a bunch of acropora pieces about 6" long and a really nice gorgonian for $60.00
Of course I am covered in crazy glue and epoxy, but it was worth it.
It's all in my tank and so far looks real happy.
Of course I am covered in crazy glue and epoxy, but it was worth it.
It's all in my tank and so far looks real happy.
You mean you didn’t dip them in dettol and quarantine them for 3 months..... shame on you young manI just got a great deal. I went into an LFS and got a bunch of acropora pieces about 6" long and a really nice gorgonian for $60.00
Of course I am covered in crazy glue and epoxy, but it was worth it.
It's all in my tank and so far looks real happy.
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Paul B
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I am still looking for stump remover to soak them in in case thy have flatworms, round worms, ring worm, tape worms and Spice worms from the Movie Dune. ;Wideyed
Skip all of that and reach for the bleach.... or send them to me, where my wrasse and hermits well strip them bare in a few minutes ...
setting up a red sea reefer 625, slow start. but I plan to follow this method
That is a true help for science sir pls update us. The ability to transmit the technique for consistent setup tank to tank is really crucial and when harnessed would be part of a huge wave of change for the hobby. The current accepted best method is hospital / asceptic technique and parasite starving based
Paul's method is ecosystem centric and feed quality centric to naturally suppress and outcompete disease without having to be so procedural and methodical, should be powerful if it can be harnessed
Paul's method is ecosystem centric and feed quality centric to naturally suppress and outcompete disease without having to be so procedural and methodical, should be powerful if it can be harnessed
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lonelyfloat
Active Member
The book is better!(I’m guessing anyway, never seen the movie)
I pick the tank up next Tuesday, and I will start the thread/ process
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Paul B
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Also when you set up a tank, we need to see how many fish die in quarantine as well as how long they live and if any of them spawn.
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Paul B
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Mn, I don't know as I don't have quarantined fish. But it would be nice to know. I have been asking for years but no one seems to come forward with quarantined fish that are spawning. Any fish except clowns which will spawn on a damp sponge under a rock in Bayonne New Jersey.
If no one is spawning anything (except me) this hobby is in horrendous shape and we should give it up and collect stamps as fish spawn all the time, constantly, every few weeks and they can lay millions of eggs although I never counted them.
Every bottom dweller should spawn in a home tank and every fish that makes a nest.
The only fish that won't usually spawn in a small home tank are fish that broadcast eggs as they need much water feeling comfortable to do that.
Butterflies, tangs and whale sharks may find it hard to spawn in a small tank.
But even those fish will spawn in a large enough tank.
If no one is spawning anything (except me) this hobby is in horrendous shape and we should give it up and collect stamps as fish spawn all the time, constantly, every few weeks and they can lay millions of eggs although I never counted them.
Every bottom dweller should spawn in a home tank and every fish that makes a nest.
The only fish that won't usually spawn in a small home tank are fish that broadcast eggs as they need much water feeling comfortable to do that.
Butterflies, tangs and whale sharks may find it hard to spawn in a small tank.
But even those fish will spawn in a large enough tank.
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