The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[Tamberav]

Nice write up, I have a question for you. You say fish need to not be quarantined/treated first.

Where does that put captive bred fish then? I mean ones that are directly from a breeder or directly from ORA and perhaps never exposed to wild fish populations.

I think many agree on the importance of captive breeding and support but if these fish were not raised in the ocean, does that mean your method will not work for them?

 

[RMS18]

I appreciate your kind words. I most definitely didn't mean any malice either, I hope it wasn't taken that way. I too am very passionate about R2R, the hobby, the fish etc! Let's keep it rolling. Oh here is a GIF of my tank.

That is cool, I never thought of making a GIF of my tank. We should do a GIF thread on here, that would be fun.

 

[User1]

That is cool, I never thought of making a GIF of my tank. We should do a GIF thread on here, that would be fun.

Zorak approves.

 

[RtomKinMad]

Can someone tell me where I can order LRS food on line. The closest place that sells
From us is 2 hrs. We’ve been using Rod’s Reef for our large fish predator blend. What does everyone think of Rods Reef food, Paul B.??? Thank you

 

[RMS18]

Can someone tell me where I can order LRS food on line. The closest place that sells
From us is 2 hrs. We’ve been using Rod’s Reef for our large fish predator blend. What does everyone think of Rods Reef food, Paul B.??? Thank you

https://premiumaquatics.com/products/reef-frenzy-8oz-pack.html
http://www.neptuneaquatics.com/supply/larrys-lrs-reef-frenzy

My fish love LRS... along with mysis, brine, live brine, live black worms, clam, fish eggs and NLS pellets.. not sure if my fish are the right fish to gauge an opinion off of!

 

[User1]

Can someone tell me where I can order LRS food on line. The closest place that sells
From us is 2 hrs. We’ve been using Rod’s Reef for our large fish predator blend. What does everyone think of Rods Reef food, Paul B.??? Thank you

@Bmwm235i already replied but just do a quick search online and you will find a couple sources. Unfortunately you are going to pay a bit more for the shipping but maybe just buy some in bulk that will last you about a 3 or 6 month supply in the freezer and mix/match their food types.

 

[Paul B]

Paul,

That reply wasn’t directed toward you at all, you didn’t imply that my participation here included any malicious intent. I don’t think you have malicious intent. It’s great to have different viewpoints here. Diversity of thought is healthy, regardless the subject matter

I agree with you that the status quo should always be challenged. In my viewpoint, not quarantining was the status quo, and probably still is overall.

Ford, first of all I consider you a friend and a very capable aquarist, probably better than most. I also admire your ability to mix all those tangs. There is no way you or anyone else could hurt my feelings on a fish site and I wasn't implying that. Don't read to much into my reply's as my thought processes are stored in wood. I am old, argumentative, probably senile, a combat Vet with PTSD and a brand new knee that is killing me and all sorts of other things. I am here for fun. If people disagree with me and want to use sawdust in their tanks instead of salt water, that is fine and may work. Who knows?

@Paul B do you consider live brine a good source of live nutrition?

I feel brine shrimp are useless unless they are newborn shrimp a few hours old. They are great for mandarins and pipefish.

I would have to disagree with you about it being hard to recreate. The way I see it, and experience it, all it takes is pushing onward after a few losses and feeding fish a very good diet and large amounts of food and helps to have a means of reducing parasite numbers like UV or ozone etc.

Not exactly, as I have said a number of times, I do not want to reduce parasite numbers but have multiple strains of parasites living along with the fish like they are meant to do and have been doing all their life.

The secret was transfer from an active long term holding system set up months in advance to mature the rock and filter systems.

This is just another reason for long term success.

I would say if you live in Iowa, try to get uncured live rock.

I can’t agree. I really doubt your tank can withstand velvet. I was like you when I first started and I was doing fine until last year I ran into velvet. Now I QT and run UV on all my tanks.

My tank never had velvet. If it did, the fish are immune because in all the years, with all the fish, corals, rocks, flounders, sponge, they have never gotten it.

Nice write up, I have a question for you. You say fish need to not be quarantined/treated first.

Where does that put captive bred fish then? I mean ones that are directly from a breeder or directly from ORA and perhaps never exposed to wild fish populations.

I think many agree on the importance of captive breeding and support but if these fish were not raised in the ocean, does that mean your method will not work for them?

Good question and I have been asked a few times. My answer is always. I don't know. I could guess but I don't want to make something up. There is an unbelievable amount of information, a literal plethora of things I simply have no idea about. That is one of them.

What does everyone think of Rods Reef food, Paul B.??? Thank you

I never tried Rods food so I don't know. I know Larry from LRS so I use that as a staple. But no matter how good it is, I always supplement it with something fresher like clams I freeze myself or live worms.

 

[RtomKinMad]

@Bmwm235i already replied but just do a quick search online and you will find a couple sources. Unfortunately you are going to pay a bit more for the shipping but maybe just buy some in bulk that will last you about a 3 or 6 month supply in the freezer and mix/match their food types.

Thank you I will check if they have the chunky formula. We do mysis/brine/spirolina for the reef I’m also looking for large predator fish in fish only system. I really appreciate the help! I will check it out! We order 4-8 flats at a time for large fish. More fish food in freezer than human food!

 

[User1]

Thank you I will check if they have the chunky formula. We do mysis/brine/spirolina for the reef I’m also looking for large predator fish in fish only system. I really appreciate the help! I will check it out! We order 4-8 flats at a time for large fish. More fish food in freezer than human food!

Another option is maybe to try a DIY version. Although I like supporting family owned business if it isn't a option you can always hit up your butcher/seafood section. I'm sure LRS would understand.

 

[Matt Carden]

I have been researching the many methods employed in reef keeping over the last 9 months. I have a 150 cycling for about 2 months. I have been attracted to the natural ecosystem methods. There are so few reefers employing natural reef systems with many more pushing all the gadgets and everything else that makes our reef tanks a sterile environment.

One of my original plans was to use natural salt water to start my tank up but was dissuaded by the multitude of naysayers who advocate for a sterile environment for our inhabitants. I am 3 hours drive away from the South Carolina and Georgia coast beaches.

The sand in my sump, which is all fuge except for return pump section, is dry sand from a beach on Hunting Island, SC. I don't know how much biodiversity was dormant in that dry sand but I would imagine some would have came to life in he presence of saltwater.

My plan at this time is to start to develop a population of phyto then pods. I plan to get some garf grunge and bag of bugs and some KP Aquatics live rock. Over the summer I am going to take my wife and daughter to every beach in the area and bring back a homer bucket with some sand, mud, water to add to my tank.

I probably won't add any fish til May or June so I can build up my ecosystem.

 

[RtomKinMad]

Ford, first of all I consider you a friend and a very capable aquarist, probably better than most. I also admire your ability to mix all those tangs. There is no way you or anyone else could hurt my feelings on a fish site and I wasn't implying that. Don't read to much into my reply's as my thought processes are stored in wood. I am old, argumentative, probably senile, a combat Vet with PTSD and a brand new knee that is killing me and all sorts of other things. I am here for fun. If people disagree with me and want to use sawdust in their tanks instead of salt water, that is fine and may work. Who knows?



I feel brine shrimp are useless unless they are newborn shrimp a few hours old. They are great for mandarins and pipefish. You can feed adult brine shrimp to Nancy Pelosy.



Not exactly, as I have said a number of times, I do not want to reduce parasite numbers but have multiple strains of parasites living along with the fish like they are meant to do and have been doing all their life.



I would say if you live in Iowa, try to get uncured live rock.



My tank never had velvet. If it did, the fish are immune because in all the years, with all the fish, corals, rocks, flounders, sponge, they have never gotten it.



Good question and I have been asked a few times. My answer is always. I don't know. I could guess but I don't want to make something up. There is an unbelievable amount of information, a literal plethora of things I simply have no idea about. That is one of them.



I never tried Rods food so I don't know. I know Larry from LRS so I use that as a staple. But no matter how good it is, I always supplement it with something fresher like clams I freeze myself or live worms.

Thank you very much I will look for it. We feed a variety to our fish only fish that has puffers, triggers, angels, an eel, and tangs. They are large fish. The Koran angel is a very picky eater and the eel will not eat same food 2 days in a row. We use clams, scallops, squid, silversides just about anything we can find and then mix in some nori for angels and tangs but the triggers eat nori also. Really appreciate your help thank you.

 

[lapin]

Humble, it's about time. Luckily I have not gotten beaten up on here so far.

As super chicken always told Fred "You knew the job would be dangerous when you took it, Fred"



Happy New Years and Best Wishes to you and yours

 

[Paul B]

I am going to take my wife and daughter to every beach in the area and bring back a homer bucket with some sand, mud, water to add to my tank.

Go for it. I have been to the places where our fish and corals were collected. Most of those places have no sanitation.

 

[tehmadreefer]

In my opinion, and I know we've argued at length about, you should point out all that encompasses your setup. I know you insist the ozone and diatom filtration doesnt do anything (even though you've always used them for 40yrs) but many others like myself would argue this is just as important as good nutrition for your fish and should be pointed out for those interested in replicating your setup.

So what do account for all of us non qt’rs that are successful and don’t use ozone or a diatom filter, uv, nor have a 40 ur old tank?

 

[PanchoG]

Great article @PaulB, thank you for sharing.

 

[Hot2na]

Is that a CHAIN in there ? awesome !! natural iron supplement...

 

[Kmsutows]

So what do account for all of us non qt’rs that are successful and don’t use ozone or a diatom filter, uv, nor have a 40 ur old tank?

How old is your tank? If its under 5-10 years then it's not impossible to pick out healthy fish. Most fish are healthy and dont have ich after all.. if you are actively introducing parasite covered fish and have fish that are more susceptible to parasite yet dont show signs then I guess you got me but I dont think anyone doing this would recommend reckless introduction to their tank, Paul even said he doesnt put the worst dish in his tank and has medicated some.

 

[Kmsutows]

Not exactly, as I have said a number of times, I do not want to reduce parasite numbers but have multiple strains of parasites living along with the fish like they are meant to do and have been doing all their life.

You have said you dont introduce fish that are totally covered rather just ones with mild cases of parasites. I cant imagine you think it would be wise to simply pour velvet into your tank if it were possible. There is obviously a threshold. Just like in the wild. Your tank is not magic like you enjoy implying. Are the fish immune? To an extent of course. But everything has limits. They are not 100% immune to whatever they come up against.

 

[tehmadreefer]

How old is your tank? If its under 5-10 years then it's not impossible to pick out healthy fish. Most fish are healthy and dont have ich after all.. if you are actively introducing parasite covered fish and have fish that are more susceptible to parasite yet dont show signs then I guess you got me but I dont think anyone doing this would recommend reckless introduction to their tank, Paul even said he doesnt put the worst dish in his tank and has medicated some.

Current tank is only a few months old but had my livestock a bit longer. I absolutely know I’ve put ich in my tank as pretty much all livestock have it and my pbt certainly has it. Been doing it this way for a long time, healthy stress free fish with a good diet and water params will almost always fend parasites/diseases.

If you notice anytime one introduces fish into a tank, after a couple of days you will see signs of ich due to stress. After a few more days to a week either the fish dies or lives on. Most of the time they live if there are not any underlying issues or cyanide collection.

Don’t need a uv, ozone, diatom filter , etc etc. just a diverse, low stress tank with quality and natural foods the fish eat in the wild.

Plain common sense... you don’t see fish dieing in the wild due to parasites on a large scale,so replicate that and no issues.

 

[tehmadreefer]

You have said you dont introduce fish that are totally covered rather just ones with mild cases of parasites. I cant imagine you think it would be wise to simply pour velvet into your tank if it were possible. There is obviously a threshold. Just like in the wild. Your tank is not magic like you enjoy implying. Are the fish immune? To an extent of course. But everything has limits. They are not 100% immune to whatever they come up against.

He never says his tank is magic... come on

He replicates their natural environment in which they thrive in....