The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[andyg1960]

Love this. Scientifically sound. About a year ago, I posted on this forum regarding some issues I was having. Several knowledgeable reefers told me my fish had velvet. They most likely did. I was told how to treat them I was told to leave the tank fallow for X amount of time, etc. I did none of it. I fed them, followed my standard husbandry procedures, etc. One fish died, the rest recovered. Stable for 10 months. Added more fish, no issues. No flakes, fresh clams and LRS. Gave my quarantine tank away.

 

[Kmsutows]

Maybe, but those bacteria were not always 47 years old.



I do use a diatom filter once or twice a year mainly to stir up my reverse UG filter. I also use it to blow detritus out of rock to clear the pores. I have always had one and find them useful but if diatom filters are the key to a healthy tank, why doesn't everyone use one?

I also use Ozone as I think it is good for water conditions. Mine broke before I moved here 5 months ago so I have not used one in a while, but I will as soon as I have time. Again, if we think Ozone is the key, use Ozone.

I use the same concept when needed... a UV. I feed all the same you do. No, no fresh mud or saltwater from the Hudson but feed very well and have a UV for backup. Absolutely works. But it's the full package. UV, ozone, what have you, in combination with a great diet and you cant really go wrong.

 

[Kmsutows]

People should look into what zoos do, mass $ on the line. Maybe inland zoos that don’t have access to natural sw replacement and are making it on site...closed systems (disease amplifiers) whatever those pros do to stock their multi $ displays regarding fish protocol would be a neat model for statistical compliance

Not sure, but isn’t it true team that some marine fish are bulletproof anyway, like today’s clowns? I thought someone told me a while back that clowns don’t get ich/crypto frequently and are ok to skip qt, but as vectors if you do this the other fish might catch ill from them, is that right

Zoosk and aquariums and fisheries use UV and or ozone... just like Paul or I. Sure they use some quarantine measures but they absolutely use a type of mechanical sterilization.

There are a few types of fish that have never been documented to contract ich. I know the marine betta is one. Clowns certainly get ich. I had one die of it before I bought a UV

 

[Cruz Mc5]

The QT debate has always struck me as an ‘argument’ between the two extreme ends of the continuum. One end is the ‘I never QT anything, and never lose a fish’; the other is to QT everything and blast with a cocktail of medications.

Although I agree, one unique thing with this hobby is Concept. Everyone has a concept and method that works for them and each has their advantage and disadvantage. Sometimes there is no right way or wrong way but " The WAY it works for me"

I agree 100% with these statements. As a new reefer, it’s been hard figuring out which method to employ. Frankly, doing an aggressive QT process on everything is simply not going to happen for my family. I really dislike the idea of proactive copper/other medical treatments, but felt like expressing that opinion was very frowned upon.

I’m not sure I’m ready to go full on with this method, and my tank is certainly too new to try it without ending in disaster, but the idea of it still really intrigues me. I hope that in time I can get to that point though. I live on the coast, so I should be able to have access to everything needed. Who knows, maybe I’ll convince my wife to give this method a serious go. Regardless, I appreciate having additional views on how to keep a successful tank, as there really doesn’t seem to be a “right” way.

 

[Kmsutows]

I agree 100% with these statements. As a new reefer, it’s been hard figuring out which method to employ. Frankly, doing an aggressive QT process on everything is simply not going to happen for my family. I really dislike the idea of proactive copper/other medical treatments, but felt like expressing that opion was very frowned upon.

I’m not sure I’m ready to go full on with this method, and my tank is certainly too new to try it without ending in disaster, but the idea of it still really intrigues me. I hope that in time I can get to that point though. I live on the coast, so I should be able to have access to everything needed. Who knows, maybe I’ll convince my wife to give this method a serious go. Regardless, I appreciate having additional views on how to keep a successful tank, as there really doesn’t seem to be a “right” way.

Dont forget your UV or ozone generator

 

[JDP]

Such an intriguing topic!

I know so little about this hobby still. This is just a point that comes to mind...not to sway anyone.
My first thoughts of having a SW tank was to cut a cube from the ocean and put it in a glass box. The thought of having an aquatic trophy shelf was out of the question. Some how...I have moved to this sterile mindset? Can they be mixed? I love the natural process, but I also know if I were dropped in the middle of the African jungle I would definitely want to have a Big bag of chloroquine phosphate!

It’s said to be immune or resistant but talerence may be a better term? How many mosquitos does it take before you spray yourself? On the other hand, I know people that will run in front of a bus to get away from a silly frog?

 

[LovesDogs_CatsRokay]

I’ve only been in this hobby for two years. My first tank, a biocube, I didn’t quarantine anyone and everyone has done great. No deaths except for a mysterious firefish gone missing recently. My 2nd tank I started out not QT’ing also, but then I lost 6 fish in just a few days. Thought it was ich at the time but now I think it may have been velvet. I keep reading about the all the people who don’t QT and have great success and am tempted to go that route again. But then I remember what it felt like to lose all those fish. It sucked. I don’t want to do that again. So now I QT.

 

[sghera64]

So you are saying that by simply ING giving the fish proper nutrition, QT isn't needed?

Do you have tangs?

I don’t QT. I have two yellow and 1 Kole that are fat and happy. They have had spots in the past but always recovered (as Paul explains).

I’ve had other yellow tangs and a PBT. No QT and all lived until I gave them away or they died from powers outages or some other man-made mishap.

 

[HotRocks]

Don’t believe everything you read by the so called “experts” on this site.

Lots of people have tangs especially powders in tanks with no qt including myself.

Yeah, how long have you had it, how big is your UV, do you run a diatom? How about an oxydator?

Your comment is unnecessary. Why make it personal? You can't just state your opinion without trying to discredit people like @Humblefish and others who spend mounds of time on this site and doing research for the betterment of this hobby. Where are you at everyday helping people that didn't QT their fish and are losing a tank full of fish? While they are freaking out and looking for advice?

No one has said it can't be done, for the beginner or even intermediate hobbyist attempting to keep fish like an acanthurus tang without QT likely won't end well. Especially given the things we are seeing coming in on newly arriving fish. There are several species (like Paul's) that are much more resistant and likely to do better kept in an ich management environment.

 

[4FordFamily]

Don’t believe everything you read by the so called “experts” on this site.

Lots of people have tangs especially powders in tanks with no qt including myself.

I don’t have much to add to @HotRocks comment. Many of us that work tirelessly to help other hobbyists save their fish are somehow maliciously trying to mislead people?

I’ve done the ich management/no qt route. For more than a decade. I killed many acanthurus tangs trying, but did have one minor success. Now that I have thousands of dollars of expert level fish I wouldn’t consider these methods.

Your story about your PBT is also devoid of any information.

I am perfectly fine with people disagreeing but there’s no reason to degrade people here that spend hours each day helping other hobbyists. I don’t see you contributing alternate methods that are repeatable for other hobbyists and fish to benefit from.

 

[KrisReef]

Seems like Pauls tank of active marine bacteria provides a hostile environment for fish pests. In a sense, it seems that Pauls method provides a functional immunization dip that gives sick fish an antibiotic-equivalent advantage which allows them to heal even when they are added to the tank with active infections.

 

[Kmsutows]

Seems like Pauls tank of active marine bacteria provides a hostile environment for fish pests. In a sense, it seems that Pauls method provides a functional immunization dip that gives sick fish an antibiotic-equivalent advantage which allows them to heal even when they are added to the tank with active infections.

Alright, I need to hear the logic on this one. As a biologist it doesnt exactly make sense his tank is magical simply by bacteria. You and everyone else including Paul seem to be avoiding his true proven method of filtration that he also uses but disregards or some reason. UV and Ozone are PROVEN methods to kill parasites and have been used for decades. Why is everyone ignoring this? I assume they want an excuse for the easy way of just plop a fish in their tank and throw it some food and itll be good.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Did I catch that freezing clams and mussels (say, from the seafood-counter at the supermarket) will “not” kill beneficial bacteria? Thanks...

 

[KrisReef]

Alright, I need to hear the logic on this one. As a biologist it doesnt exactly make sense his tank is magical simply by bacteria. You and everyone else including Paul seem to be avoiding his true proven method of filtration that he also uses but disregards or some reason. UV and Ozone are PROVEN methods to kill parasites and have been used for decades. Why is everyone ignoring this? I assume they want an excuse for the easy way of just plop a fish in their tank and throw it some food and itll be good.

Paul recently added a sick fish to his system and it survived. He mentioned that his ozone is offline for 5 months. UV in a marine system has been shown to be 100% effective where? (His diatom filter use is also occasionally employed.)

If he is having success, perhaps there is something to what he is doing?
His results and methods are similar perhaps to human immunization methods, was all I was saying.

Is it because he is using other methods he is not forthcoming with?

 

[Saveafish]

After reading all this. I'm hoping some will chime in. This will be jumbled up. Bare with me
Its looking like.. the more we do fancy rock work scape. The less rock we have in our tanks. Remember the rock walls with hundreds of pounds of rock. This seems be running a candle at both ends. One end it lessens bio-diversity. We'd get rock here there and where ever we saw a cool piece. Than we seem to creat a sterile environment. Making a pathway to destruction.
The other thing I seen was vitamins and fresh foods. The foods when fresh carry the bacteria pathogens. Hint why you don't eat raw chicken but alligator can eat it. I remember dosing seachem reef complete and Reef plus.
Are we in all lessening the bio-diversity and not giving enough as nutrients back into the life support.

 

[brandon429]

Freezing (home freezer, not talking liquid nitrogen dipping) is a very poor method of sterilization, I could plate many unsightly colonies off meat in anyone’s deep freeze here any ole time, that was actually part of my old job.

Part of regulating the compliance for meat packing / colony counts/ feedback to production and cleaning crews is testing ground beef samples that get plucked off a production line and put into dated freezer samples tested at 10 30 and 60 for both metabolites and for certain types of common environmental bacteria/associates

Freezing did very little to stop lactic acid generators, GAB and 0157h7

That’s why they say heat for 10 mins at 130 or 160 I forget/ not freeze.

Any quality shellfish or meats or marine fare that are fresh, then put in your freezer are commuting a bunch of diversity microbially speaking into the system when fed, for sure. some do die, not all. Then it compounds over time and additions affect the biome, there’s good science in his food claims portion, microbiome alteration. But there’s the petco holding system, an ich-packing conveyor line heh

 

[Kmsutows]

Paul recently added a sick fish to his system and it survived. He mentioned that his ozone is offline for 5 months. UV in a marine system has been shown to be 100% effective where? (His diatom filter use is also occasionally employed.)

If he is having success, perhaps there is something to what he is doing?
His results and methods are similar perhaps to human immunization methods, was all I was saying.

Is it because he is using other methods he is not forthcoming with?

Sure there is success to what he is doing, I dont think anyone is disputing that. It's the aspects he doesnt even mention that bothers me. One sick fish doesnt really mean anything. His other fish have developed the immunity he talks about and let's face it, not every fish with ich dies. If it did, it wouldnt be a very good parasite. A good parasite doesnt kill its host. I never said UV is 100% at anything. It kills enough of the parasite so that the healthy well fed fish can combat it on it's own healthy immune system. There actually is a scientific study that says over time ich cannot live in a system with immune fish and will die out. Unfortunately I cannot locate the article. But at any rate... I dont recall Paul saying he has introduced an infected fish while both the diatom and ozone were offline. Again, not that that would prove anything.

 

[O'l Salty]

There is definitely some validity to this method. Instead of putting fish directly into my DT I put them into a 20 gallon QT tank which is a fully cycled operational tank with at least one other fish at all times.

 

[Matt Carden]

I'm thinking for this method to work, one has to have lots of patience staring at box of water for 6 months.

 

[Matt Carden]

Which I'm prepared to do