The Quarantine Tank from Hell

[LiquidSpace]

So…I have two quarantine tanks set up. A 20 long and a 40 gallon. The reason for this is I am stocking a 200 gallon so I’m doing two at once.

The 20 gallon (outside of two angels that came in with fungus and a malnourished rabbit fish) have been golden.

The 40 gallon is a different story. I have lost two angelfish, 5 anthias, and 2 longspine blue eye cardinals. I have one cardinal left. I don’t know why this has been such a disaster!

Copper has been consistent between 2.25 and 2.30 for three weeks on Hanna. Ammonia reads 0.03 on the Hanna checker. QT was matched to incoming salinity and heat. ALL of these fish were active and eating before they took a turn for the worse. The most recent being three lyretail anthias that began breathing hard over the past 24 hours. The only thing I can think of is a lack of oxygen (I have a tidal 110, a Powerhead pointing at the surface and a sponge filter, ordering a bubble wand because I have no idea at this point) or something unseen.

Today I take a close look at the cardinal and it looks like it has ich?!

The copper level has been at 2.25 to 2.30 and is currently 2.28. Is this even possible? I’m feeling really defeated with this specific aquarium but won’t let it beat me. I want to do what is best for my animals and this has just been a blood bath. Once it is empty I plan to completely disinfect it. I don’t clean with any aerosols around the aquarium. The only thing I could think of is a litter box about 3 feet away. But that’s a reach!

Any ideas?

 

[threebuoys]

Any possibility the copper concentration dipped below 2.0 for several hours during the 3 week treatment?

 

[MnFish1]

So…I have two quarantine tanks set up. A 20 long and a 40 gallon. The reason for this is I am stocking a 200 gallon so I’m doing two at once.

The 20 gallon (outside of two angels that came in with fungus and a malnourished rabbit fish) have been golden.

The 40 gallon is a different story. I have lost two angelfish, 5 anthias, and 2 longspine blue eye cardinals. I have one cardinal left. I don’t know why this has been such a disaster!

Copper has been consistent between 2.25 and 2.30 for three weeks on Hanna. Ammonia reads 0.03 on the Hanna checker. QT was matched to incoming salinity and heat. ALL of these fish were active and eating before they took a turn for the worse. The most recent being three lyretail anthias that began breathing hard over the past 24 hours. The only thing I can think of is a lack of oxygen (I have a tidal 110, a Powerhead pointing at the surface and a sponge filter, ordering a bubble wand because I have no idea at this point) or something unseen.

Today I take a close look at the cardinal and it looks like it has ich?!

The copper level has been at 2.25 to 2.30 and is currently 2.28. Is this even possible? I’m feeling really defeated with this specific aquarium but won’t let it beat me. I want to do what is best for my animals and this has just been a blood bath. Once it is empty I plan to completely disinfect it. I don’t clean with any aerosols around the aquarium. The only thing I could think of is a litter box about 3 feet away. But that’s a reach!

Any ideas?

It does look like Ich - I might try measuring more than once - do you have anything in the 40 gallon that may be adsorbing copper?

 

[MnFish1]

So…I have two quarantine tanks set up. A 20 long and a 40 gallon. The reason for this is I am stocking a 200 gallon so I’m doing two at once.

The 20 gallon (outside of two angels that came in with fungus and a malnourished rabbit fish) have been golden.

The 40 gallon is a different story. I have lost two angelfish, 5 anthias, and 2 longspine blue eye cardinals. I have one cardinal left. I don’t know why this has been such a disaster!

Copper has been consistent between 2.25 and 2.30 for three weeks on Hanna. Ammonia reads 0.03 on the Hanna checker. QT was matched to incoming salinity and heat. ALL of these fish were active and eating before they took a turn for the worse. The most recent being three lyretail anthias that began breathing hard over the past 24 hours. The only thing I can think of is a lack of oxygen (I have a tidal 110, a Powerhead pointing at the surface and a sponge filter, ordering a bubble wand because I have no idea at this point) or something unseen.

Today I take a close look at the cardinal and it looks like it has ich?!

The copper level has been at 2.25 to 2.30 and is currently 2.28. Is this even possible? I’m feeling really defeated with this specific aquarium but won’t let it beat me. I want to do what is best for my animals and this has just been a blood bath. Once it is empty I plan to completely disinfect it. I don’t clean with any aerosols around the aquarium. The only thing I could think of is a litter box about 3 feet away. But that’s a reach!

Any ideas?

PS - did you source the fish in the 20 vs the 40 from the same vendor - that may be playing a role. I do to not think aerosols or the litter box are playing any role. Can you take a picture of both tanks?

 

[LiquidSpace]

It does look like Ich - I might try measuring more than once - do you have anything in the 40 gallon that may be adsorbing copper?

I have a mixture of seachem purigen and marine pure bio balls.

Copper right now is measuring 2.45 after a water change earlier today.

PS - did you source the fish in the 20 vs the 40 from the same vendor - that may be playing a role. I do to think aerosols or the litter box are playing any role. Can you take a picture of both tanks?

Fish in the 40:
Cardinals - Vendor A
Angels - Vendor B
Anthias - Vendor C

Fish in the 20:
Angel - Vendor A

The Angel from vendor A in the 20 was purchased 01/18. The cardinals from the same vendor were purchased on 12/27.

I’m realizing right now having one QT above the other is probably an awful idea. :upside-down-face:


I am making sure food, tools, etc. are used exclusively for their respective aquariums with no cross contamination.

 

[vetteguy53081]

It does look like Ich - I might try measuring more than once - do you have anything in the 40 gallon that may be adsorbing copper?

I have a mixture of seachem purigen and marine pure bio balls.

Copper right now is measuring 2.45 after a water change earlier today.



Fish in the 40:
Cardinals - Vendor A
Angels - Vendor B
Anthias - Vendor C

Fish in the 20:
Angel - Vendor A

The Angel from vendor A in the 20 was purchased 01/18. The cardinals from the same vendor were purchased on 12/27.

I’m realizing right now having one QT above the other is probably an awful idea. :upside-down-face:


I am making sure food, tools, etc. are used exclusively for their respective aquariums with no cross contamination.

You want a full 30 days on coppersafe at 80 degrees and the first two days will be the period of coppersafe starting to work. In essence you have 2+ weeks completed and not enough time yet. Im also not keen on ammonia alert in medication as many are now discovering and suggest a salifert ammonia kit to monitor levels

 

[LiquidSpace]

You want a full 30 days on coppersafe at 80 degrees and the first two days will be the period of coppersafe starting to work. In essence you have 2+ weeks completed and not enough time yet. Im also not keen on ammonia alert in medication as many are now discovering and suggest a salifert ammonia kit to monitor levels

I started therapeutic levels on 01/10 so I just crossed two weeks. So it’s possible for ich to show up during treatment? Good to know. Should I extend QT for an extra 30 days once I see the visual signs disappear?

Yeah, the ammonia alert badge is just there, I’m not relying on it anymore. I got really paranoid after I lost the first couple of fish and picked up a Hanna for the ammonia.

 

[MnFish1]

I started therapeutic levels on 01/10 so I just crossed two weeks. So it’s possible for ich to show up during treatment? Good to know. Should I extend QT for an extra 30 days once I see the visual signs disappear?

Yeah, the ammonia alert badge is just there, I’m not relying on it anymore. I got really paranoid after I lost the first couple of fish and picked up a Hanna for the ammonia.

View attachment 3984066
View attachment 3984067

And now it doesn’t look as bad? Or have any spots at all? Thoroughly confused here.

Ich falls off - only to return - hopefully if your copper is at good levels - spots will not return. I am going to say - to me the fish looks thin - and I would work on feeding as well. Curious though. Over what timeframe did it go from 'spots' to 'none'. Fyi - Ich tends to drop off at night...

 

[vetteguy53081]

I started therapeutic levels on 01/10 so I just crossed two weeks. So it’s possible for ich to show up during treatment? Good to know. Should I extend QT for an extra 30 days once I see the visual signs disappear?

Yeah, the ammonia alert badge is just there, I’m not relying on it anymore. I got really paranoid after I lost the first couple of fish and picked up a Hanna for the ammonia.

View attachment 3984066
View attachment 3984067

And now it doesn’t look as bad? Or have any spots at all? Thoroughly confused here.

Ich has life cycles and will come and go as they reproduce but this disappearance is often behavior of cryptocaryon and Coppersafe will address this. Continue the cycle to the 30 day period

 

[LiquidSpace]

Ich falls off - only to return - hopefully if your copper is at good levels - spots will not return. I am going to say - to me the fish looks thin - and I would work on feeding as well. Curious though. Over what timeframe did it go from 'spots' to 'none'. Fyi - Ich tends to drop off at night...

I noticed the ich this morning around 10:00 AM and at 02:30 PM it looks clear. So it was pretty fast.

I’ll try and mix in some garlic to entice feeding. It was feeding very well up until a couple of days ago when everything went off the rails.

 

[MnFish1]

PS - you should not be using Purigen in a copper tank... That may be part of your problem.

 

[MnFish1]

I noticed the ich this morning around 10:00 AM and at 02:30 PM it looks clear.

You're right - that is odd:)

 

[MnFish1]

By the way - though its said that Purigen doesn't affect copper - here is a quote from Customer support: "It's not that Purigen will directly remove Cupramine; it's just a general rule to remove it to be "on the safe side," as you said. When we medicate with Cupramine, we do not use Purigen. Keep in mind that Purigen will not directly remove ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, but it will remove the nitrogenous organic waste before it can be converted into those components (i.e., therefore, it will prevent those levels from increasing). What we recommend doing in quarantine situations in order to keep the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels in check is to perform regular water changes (as needed) and to boost your biological filter by using Matrix and adding Stability (as necessary)."

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Wow - that sure looks like ich on that cardinal, but I cannot reconcile that with a consistent copper level.......

 

[LiquidSpace]

PS - you should not be using Purigen in a copper tank... That may be part of your problem.

I’ll take it out. Hopefully it didn’t effect anything for the fish I moved into the display in prior quarantine :anxious-face-with-sweat:

Is the Marine Pure okay?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’ll take it out. Hopefully it didn’t effect anything for the fish I moved into the display :anxious-face-with-sweat:

Is the Marine Pure okay?

Yeah- remove all media with copper based products. If using RODI water, shouldnt need purigen for that 30 day period

 

[LiquidSpace]

I’m an idiot.

I’m not sure why I’m calling it purigen. It’s seachem matrix. I have a container of purigen from 3 years ago and have never used it. I think I just mixed up the name since the containers look familiar. Purigen isn’t even open.

 

[MnFish1]

I have a mixture of seachem purigen and marine pure bio balls.

Copper right now is measuring 2.45 after a water change earlier today.



Fish in the 40:
Cardinals - Vendor A
Angels - Vendor B
Anthias - Vendor C

Fish in the 20:
Angel - Vendor A

The Angel from vendor A in the 20 was purchased 01/18. The cardinals from the same vendor were purchased on 12/27.

I’m realizing right now having one QT above the other is probably an awful idea. :upside-down-face:


I am making sure food, tools, etc. are used exclusively for their respective aquariums with no cross contamination.

It is not great - unless you're using both at the identical same time. Since you're using the same medication it's ok.

 

[MnFish1]

I’m an idiot.

I’m not sure why I’m calling it purigen. It’s seachem matrix. I have a container of purigen from 3 years ago and have never used it. I think I just mixed up the name since the containers look familiar. Purigen isn’t even open.

Matrix is supposed to be inert to copper - however some reported problems - according to sachem - it should be ok. Generally speaking - I would tend not to use it ( but I dont have a good reason for you not to use it based on what I've read). I tend to use a simple sponge filter.