The War on Cyano or what ever this is

[R33fDaddy]

I'm currently in a full on battle with whatever type of Algae or Bacteria this is in my reef tank. I think it's Cyanobacteria but my twice failed Chemiclean treatment has me thinking it could be something else. It looks redish and doesn't have that disgusting Diatoms look to it but who knows. Either way I'm determined to defeat this!!

What I've tried so far, all failed.
Chemiclean
Weekly water changes of 15 gallons
Carbon
Changing my filter floss every two days

Implemented a clean up crew for the first time:
2 Emerald Carbs
15 Hermit Carbs
5 Nassuras Snails
5 Mexican Turbo Snails
5 Trocus Snail
1 Conch Snail
2 Peppermint Shrimp

The clean up crew looks like the can keep this stuff away once it's gone. However they cannot eliminate the problem at the scale its currently at.

Tank: Redsea 250
Alkalinity 11.2 dkh
Calcium 500 ppm
Magnesium 1470 ppm
Nitrates 25ppm
Nitrite 2ppm
Phosphates 0ppm
Salinity 1.027
Temp 77 Degrees

Equipment:
Protein Skimmer
Algae Scrubber
Tunze Auto top off
Two MP10s

Salt Redsea Pro
I tried dosing Nopox but that didn't really help.

I'm open to all suggests! First do you'll think this is Cyano?

Also this stuff has started killing my poor corals by covering them up. You can see the Skelton of my Gonipora in photos. *Sad face

 

[dvgyfresh]

Seems like a mix of algae / amphidium Dino’s (sand bed) 0 phosphate reading would promote the ugly/bad algae growth work on increasing phosphate / flow then check. I think you are keeping the reef biome too clean causing the bad guys to proliferate , need to dirty it up some. Chemi clean/ chemical solutions I see as band aids and don’t fix the overall problem.

 

[sixty_reefer]

You should increase your phosphates to detectable, the algae looks a mix of Cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates

 

[brandon429]

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

Reasons why that's pertinent:

-A direct cure thread for your invasion. You can track out over time how our cleanings held up.


- you originally had invasion issues a year ago, it hasn't been invasion free running the last 12 months using indirect means. You can track the outcomes above for people who invested time in the direct control method designed exactly for your issue

- failure to comply will bring 12 more months of underenjoyment lol

- you are now building up successive layers of dead/ treated organisms rotting internally, you will gain coral loss issues if you proceed- it's chemical souping.

- just because you have grazers doesn't mean they're matched to the job or helping, they're adding daily waste pellets into the system

- 50 gallons isn't a huge job, a 40 was done above it's a days work to get back control over this reef you have.


Lastly, here's two hundred fifty more rip clean jobs to show we didn't luck into this

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

Beating your invasion has been shown repeatedly. We never ask for params, ID. or any hesitation.

You should rip clean your tank because you sound ready to take back the win, and no other matched methods will show as many wins as rip cleans show. It's literally eight years straight of tank fixes in two threads, pic after pic.


Addressing the waste + invader complex + massive reduction in your surface area is treating the problem. Any more compounding is part of the problem.

We can now see that owning an invasion free system is a matter of will, not method. The method exists for anyone who wants to be uninvaded. A mere one days cleaning, to undo all the plugging up allowed in the system.

 

[R33fDaddy]

You should increase your phosphates to detectable, the algae looks a mix of Cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates

I thought increased Phosphates is what cause Algae issues. If I dose Phosphates wouldn't that just create another issue?

 

[R33fDaddy]

Sorry everyone, copy and paste error above. Here is my current parameters. Above was like six months ago.

Tank: Redsea 250
Alkalinity 11.2 dkh
Calcium 500 ppm
Magnesium 1470 ppm
Nitrates 2ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Phosphates 0ppm
Salinity 1.027
Temp 77 - 78 Degrees


What's the worse that can happen if I try to bring my Nitrates and Phosphates up? I don't want to exchange one problem for another. If it's Dinos do you think UV would help?

 

[Lavey29]

I thought increased Phosphates is what cause Algae issues. If I dose Phosphates wouldn't that just create another issue?

No zero phosphate is what is contributing to your dinos and cyano in your tank. Nitrates should be 10 and calcium slightly elevated also. Cut lights to 6 hours with blue and UV only no whites. Increase flow to the affected areas. Siphon up what you can. Change socks daily. Dose PNS probio to build your biodiversity up.

 

[rhostam]

I thought increased Phosphates is what cause Algae issues. If I dose Phosphates wouldn't that just create another issue?

I have elevated phosphates and had a terrible GHA outbreak. This my fault.

Since I’ve started slowly reducing phosphates I am now fighting the same issue as you for weeks and weeks. Phosphates are now 0.17 from 0.42 peak. The GHA is dying or at least growth has stopped after removal. My tank looks like yours now.

My nitrates are almost bottomed out, though. Hard to tell with these trees kits. I’m guessing 5-10 ppm. I’ve reduced photo period for my the refugium and started feeding more nori and frozen mysis.

Sigh. It’s been a painful process since this outbreak started thanks to my phosphate spike.

 

[R33fDaddy]

No zero phosphate is what is contributing to your dinos and cyano in your tank. Nitrates should be 10 and calcium slightly elevated also. Cut lights to 6 hours with blue and UV only no whites. Increase flow to the affected areas. Siphon up what you can. Change socks daily. Dose PNS probio to build your biodiversity up.

I should have added this above but it's not my lights. I ran my lights with zero whites with a photo period from 3pm to 9pm for months and things actually got worse. Probably because the blues are really good at hiding issues. I have two MP10s behind my rock work, I could try adding a gyre to the front. I also tried Vibrant but I'll look into PNS.

 

[R33fDaddy]

I have elevated phosphates and had a terrible GHA outbreak. This my fault.

Since I’ve started slowly reducing phosphates I am now fighting the same issue as you for weeks and weeks. Phosphates are now 0.17 from 0.42 peak. The GHA is dying or at least growth has stopped after removal. My tank looks like yours now.

My nitrates are almost bottomed out, though. Hard to tell with these trees kits. I’m guessing 5-10 ppm. I’ve reduced photo period for my the refugium and started feeding more nori and frozen mysis.

Sigh. It’s been a painful process since this outbreak started thanks to my phosphate spike.

We should team up to beat this lol. I really don't want to have to increase nutrients which will cause another issue.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I thought increased Phosphates is what cause Algae issues. If I dose Phosphates wouldn't that just create another issue?

Correct. Elevated Phos and Nitrate will contribute. So will excessive light, inorganics and even Tap water.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Often confused with Cyano and dinoflagellates, this is Calothrix which is a nuisance algae resembling Dino due to air bubble which are trying to escape.
Best removal method which at times is not convenient but necessary id removing rock and placing in a container of tank water and scrubbing with a firm toothbrush or automotive detail brush.
Agitate rock in the water and return to tank. Thereafter , you can add cleaners to help with control such as Pitho crabs, nerite snails, ninja star snails, chiton snail, margarita snails abd cerith snails

 

[Dburr1014]

I should have added this above but it's not my lights. I ran my lights with zero whites with a photo period from 3pm to 9pm for months and things actually got worse. Probably because the blues are really good at hiding issues. I have two MP10s behind my rock work, I could try adding a gyre to the front. I also tried Vibrant but I'll look into PNS.

Blue lights grow algae too.

 

[Lavey29]

Blue lights grow algae too.

It can but not like whites, red and green can. Look at the spectrum for the chaeto lights or some just use a cheap white lamp from home depot to grow chaeto.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I thought increased Phosphates is what cause Algae issues. If I dose Phosphates wouldn't that just create another issue?

I don’t know who started that rumour of phosphates being what causes algae to grow, you can search the hole internet and you won’t find a single successful case of someone that beats algae by depleting a tank out of nutrients. If you wish to fall on to that trap you may never find a balance.

The zero nutrient P is actually creating a nutrient imbalance situation in your tank that makes dissolved co2 more available for the algaes to grow faster, the same situation is creating a abundance of organic carbon that is what feeds dinoflagellates and Cyanobacteria and causes them blooms.
So you see nothing good happens wend a tank is deprived of nutrients, algae is a natural thing to happen in a reef, you just need to keep it in check with herbivores. The same reason you got algae thriving is the same reason you have dinoflagellates and Cyanobacteria, meaning at some time they where introduced in your tank as hitchhikers and under the right nutrient imbalance created by depriving a system of phosphates or nitrates will cause them to bloom faster.

I would go even further, can anyone on this thread or reading this comments find a thread of someone that was able to eliminate GHA by starving a system out of nutrients alone?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Correct. Elevated Phos and Nitrate will contribute. So will excessive light, inorganics and even Tap water.

That’s absolutely correct, it also will contribute for all other life forms in his tank to live and thrive including coral and microbes (except the tap water), should he kill all his tank inhabitants in a plan set to fail?

 

[KonradTO]

Same situation here. A lot of GHA since december and now gha+ a mix of other algae. Nitrates at 2ppm, phos 0.03. I have been kindly suggested from users to:
-feed more
-feed less
-less light
-less whites
-don't touch lights
-more cuc
-manual cleaning
-do not touch algae they spread aaaaaa
-use chemical bombing
-don't use chemicals
-RIP clean your sand and rocks for 40 days in a row (in the desert, god will help)
-remove only long strands of gha
-use skimmer
-Don't skim for lord sake! You get dinos!
-its silicates
-no silicates have nothing to do with gha

Well.. I came to a conclusion that probably every tank is different. If you are lucky you get some good feedback from someone that has a similar strain/species of algae and a similar tank environment, and did manage to solve it following himself some random advice.
Having said this... how do we proceed xD

 

[KonradTO]

Same situation here. A lot of GHA since december and now gha+ a mix of other algae. Nitrates at 2ppm, phos 0.03. I have been kindly suggested from users to:
-feed more
-feed less
-less light
-less whites
-don't touch lights
-more cuc
-manual cleaning
-do not touch algae they spread aaaaaa
-use chemical bombing
-don't use chemicals
-RIP clean your sand and rocks for 40 days in a row (in the desert, god will help)
-remove only long strands of gha
-use skimmer
-Don't skim for lord sake! You get dinos!
-its silicates
-no silicates have nothing to do with gha

Well.. I came to a conclusion that probably every tank is different. If you are lucky you get some good feedback from someone that has a similar strain/species of algae and a similar tank environment, and did manage to solve it following himself some random advice.
Having said this... how do we proceed xD

Also small funny fact:
My 6g pico "trash" tank, where I keep the unwanted stuff like aiptasia, no filtration, no pumps, no ato, c*rappy white old led, never do wc, feed when I remember. There no algae what the heck

 

[sixty_reefer]

Same situation here. A lot of GHA since december and now gha+ a mix of other algae. Nitrates at 2ppm, phos 0.03. I have been kindly suggested from users to:
-feed more
-feed less
-less light
-less whites
-don't touch lights
-more cuc
-manual cleaning
-do not touch algae they spread aaaaaa
-use chemical bombing
-don't use chemicals
-RIP clean your sand and rocks for 40 days in a row (in the desert, god will help)
-remove only long strands of gha
-use skimmer
-Don't skim for lord sake! You get dinos!
-its silicates
-no silicates have nothing to do with gha

Well.. I came to a conclusion that probably every tank is different. If you are lucky you get some good feedback from someone that has a similar strain/species of algae and a similar tank environment, and did manage to solve it following himself some random advice.
Having said this... how do we proceed xD

If you are dealing with algae and followed in the trap of depleting you tank from nutrients you should consider the fallowing first.

you have to have priorities in this situation, firstly regain balance and stability at the nutrient level, second kill the dinoflagellates and third remove the algae. If you don’t have dinoflagellates skip to step 3.
If you have dinoflagellates and try to skip to step 3 straight away you will make things a lot worse that they are.

1. regain balance in your system

this is the most important step to be made most dinoflagellates will die once balance is regain depending on the dinoflagellates diet requirements.
We have autotrophic and heterotrophic dinoflagellates, one species will go after balance is regain and the other will need a full tank black out to eradicate them.
Basically one needs light and inorganic carbon and the other needs organic carbon to thrive only.
Once balance is regain there will be less Doc and N-Doc in the water column for them to keep growing.

To regain balance find a way to keep your nitrates and phosphates at readable values and constant.
That’s what stability is

2. take your time, Rome wasn’t build in a day and this is a long process now.

3. killing pest algaes inside the tank.

For this you will need:

• Reliable test kits for nitrate and phosphates
• Artificial nutrient N and P
• Filter pads
• CUC

killing nuisance algaes it’s easy if you know what you doing, you just need to be aware of what’s going to happen to be successful.

Place the filter pad on a section of rock you want to kill the algae, this will remove photosynthesis and the algae will melt. As the algae melts they will release astonishing amounts of organic carbon into the water column, this is where you need to use the artificial sources of The nutrients N and P, The game objectives is to not allow Nutrients to be fully depleted and they need to be added daily until the process is finished and balanced regain.
If the nutrient bottom out then is game over and dinoflagellates will be back again.
Only do small sections at a time and keep the pad in each location for 7 days.

4. Do a CUC account and add more if needed.

last step and mos important, enjoy your tank

 

[Dburr1014]

If you are dealing with algae and followed in the trap of depleting you tank from nutrients you should consider the fallowing first.

you have to have priorities in this situation, firstly regain balance and stability at the nutrient level, second kill the dinoflagellates and third remove the algae. If you don’t have dinoflagellates skip to step 3.
If you have dinoflagellates and try to skip to step 3 straight away you will make things a lot worse that they are.

1. regain balance in your system

this is the most important step to be made most dinoflagellates will die once balance is regain depending on the dinoflagellates diet requirements.
We have autotrophic and heterotrophic dinoflagellates, one species will go after balance is regain and the other will need a full tank black out to eradicate them.
Basically one needs light and inorganic carbon and the other needs organic carbon to thrive only.
Once balance is regain there will be less Doc and N-Doc in the water column for them to keep growing.

To regain balance find a way to keep your nitrates and phosphates at readable values and constant.
That’s what stability is

2. take your time, Rome wasn’t build in a day and this is a long process now.

3. killing pest algaes inside the tank.

For this you will need:

• Reliable test kits for nitrate and phosphates
• Artificial nutrient N and P
• Filter pads
• CUC

killing nuisance algaes it’s easy if you know what you doing, you just need to be aware of what’s going to happen to be successful.

Place the filter pad on a section of rock you want to kill the algae, this will remove photosynthesis and the algae will melt. As the algae melts they will release astonishing amounts of organic carbon into the water column, this is where you need to use the artificial sources of The nutrients N and P, The game objectives is to not allow Nutrients to be fully depleted and they need to be added daily until the process is finished and balanced regain.
If the nutrient bottom out then is game over and dinoflagellates will be back again.
Only do small sections at a time and keep the pad in each location for 7 days.

4. Do a CUC account and add more if needed.

last step and mos important, enjoy your tank

I have never heard of this plan before and find it interesting.

But have questions.

How does the nutrient deplete as the algae dies? Wouldn't go into the water column and elevate it? Or does it simply get skimmed out?

I had dinos, for a while. I never microscoped them but they always went into the water at night. So I elevated the nutrients and installed a uv on the tank. Beat them and in came the hair algae. Tried different things but what had been working is snails, urchins and vinagar dosing with manual pulling. Hair is stunted, stopped growing. But cayno is running ramped in my sump(none in the tank). I now(yesterday) halved my vinagar dosing. From 16ml to 8ml. I think I'm going down even more, maybe to 6ml by the end of the week.
But I have some pads and may try this instead.