These Nitrates are frustrating

ReeferCPA

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Background Knowledge:
-150g with 40g sump, and just hit 1 year old
-2-3" sand bed
-100ish lbs. LR done in Negative Space type arrangement
-4 mp40s
-2 marine pure bricks in sump
-Apex everything w/ Trident and DOS (BRS 2 part only)
-Hannah Checker for everything
-Live stock
- 2 clowns
- PBrT
- Sailfin Tang
- Hippo Tang
- Foxface
- 6 Chromis
- Fairy Wrasse
- Diamond Goby
- Vaious snails and other inverts
-Alk: 9.5
-Cal: 440ish
-Mg1340
-pH 8.15 (day) - 7.9 (night)

Phosphates usually sit right at .03 with normal feeding habits (frozen and Nori)

Nitrates will not go above 0. I haven't run filter socks in about 2 months and my skimmer is only running for about 8 hours twice a week. When I dose NeoNitro, Hannah picks it up at expected levels but its gone in about 12-18 hours.

Should I try removing the Marine pure? I almost feel dumb asking that. But the marine pure sits in a baffle (and completely blocks it) with a foam pad on top. From time to time, I can lift that foam up and it releases an air pocket that seems to have built up. I don't really want to dose neo nitro if I don't have to, and I'd really like to have a more active skimmer, because the sump gets disgusting quick.

I think my options are:
1) Remove the Marine pure completely
2) Move the Marine pure to where the socks used to be (way higher flow)
3) Just dose something like NeoNitro

What do y'all think? What should I try first? What would be most effective? Are there any other options I'm missing?

I've been fighting this since the start of this tank. Some corals live but don't thrive. And SPS you can just about set a timer to count down until they go. SPS is the goal with this tank so I want to do what have to get this working.
 

Big G

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I've had a love hate relationship with Marine Pure blocks. They can be a real strong filter material, but at times either too strong or they clog up, especially in QT tanks when dosing copper. So I switched to using mesh bags of either Fluval BioMax or Sachem Matrix. The mesh bags allow for better flow and . . . you can easily adjust the size/quantity of the materials within the bag, making fine tuning less of a chore with better results.
 
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R

ReeferCPA

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Corals love the urea and ammonia and phosphate from fish so maybe stop worrying about nitrates and feed your fish more.
I didn't present that as an option, because in the back of my mind I've already increased it. I moved up to twice a day whenever possible, definitely every day at a minimum. Usually 3 blocks of frozen per feeding. This is about as much as I can realistically do .
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I see no reason to keep denitrifying media and dose nitrate to a reef aquarium.

I'd personally remove the media, and see what that doses, than if nitrate continues too low, up the dose until it does not deplete overnight.

I recommend food grade sodium nitrate from a place like amazon. Calcium nitrate is also good, but harder to fine.
 

Timfish

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I didn't present that as an option, because in the back of my mind I've already increased it. I moved up to twice a day whenever possible, definitely every day at a minimum. Usually 3 blocks of frozen per feeding. This is about as much as I can realistically do .

Have you considered an autofeeder with pellets?
 

shwareefer

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You have a lot of potential denitrifiers there - sandbed, live rock, mp bricks. Take out a brick, see what changes.

Not testable likely means 'in use' including by the corals. While we all like to see some nitrates in our water these days I'd hesitate to die on that hill as your problem with the apparent input you have. Perhaps an ICP test could reveal something you hadn't thought of.

Is there algae in the tank?
 

Dan_P

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Background Knowledge:
-150g with 40g sump, and just hit 1 year old
-2-3" sand bed
-100ish lbs. LR done in Negative Space type arrangement
-4 mp40s
-2 marine pure bricks in sump
-Apex everything w/ Trident and DOS (BRS 2 part only)
-Hannah Checker for everything
-Live stock
- 2 clowns
- PBrT
- Sailfin Tang
- Hippo Tang
- Foxface
- 6 Chromis
- Fairy Wrasse
- Diamond Goby
- Vaious snails and other inverts
-Alk: 9.5
-Cal: 440ish
-Mg1340
-pH 8.15 (day) - 7.9 (night)

Phosphates usually sit right at .03 with normal feeding habits (frozen and Nori)

Nitrates will not go above 0. I haven't run filter socks in about 2 months and my skimmer is only running for about 8 hours twice a week. When I dose NeoNitro, Hannah picks it up at expected levels but its gone in about 12-18 hours.

Should I try removing the Marine pure? I almost feel dumb asking that. But the marine pure sits in a baffle (and completely blocks it) with a foam pad on top. From time to time, I can lift that foam up and it releases an air pocket that seems to have built up. I don't really want to dose neo nitro if I don't have to, and I'd really like to have a more active skimmer, because the sump gets disgusting quick.

I think my options are:
1) Remove the Marine pure completely
2) Move the Marine pure to where the socks used to be (way higher flow)
3) Just dose something like NeoNitro

What do y'all think? What should I try first? What would be most effective? Are there any other options I'm missing?

I've been fighting this since the start of this tank. Some corals live but don't thrive. And SPS you can just about set a timer to count down until they go. SPS is the goal with this tank so I want to do what have to get this working.
What in your system needs nitrate?
 
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DarthChaos

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You don't need to dose/add a No3 or Po4 additive, to bring up your nutrients. Remember.. your LFS, companies like BRS - they want you to treat issues with chemicals and medias...its how they make money. There are much...much easier (and cheaper) ways, to manage low nutrients.

Managing low nutrients - is very simple:

1. Start by removing any media take it out! Your tank is starving...it wants food. Media -is sucking up, what little nutrients are there. Stuff like GFO, chemi-pure, Phosguard. Don't stress carbon.

2. Stop or reduce WCs - again, starving tank. If you use WCs for parameter control....then move this down a few spots.

3. Remove filter socks or fleece. These trap a LOT of organics and nutrients. Removing them -will help put organics into the tank.

4. Put your skimmer and/or refugium on a timer - keep in mind, if you don't have enough surface agitation...the lack of skimmer, to oxygenate the water - will kill your fish (I've done it). I've put an airstone in my sump - on the opposite time, my skimmer was off.

5. Just feed more - fish food OR coral. Corals...eat what fish eat. Coral foods...are simply a bonus. Coral additives can be great, for raising nutrients - especially Po4.

* certain coral foods (like Reef Roids) are basically pure Po4. So they can be great, for raising levels

Your system is exporting nutrients well- too well. For now - remember, that may change. Reef tanks are constantly growing and evolving dinos one week..GHA the next. Things can change...quickly, if we
rush solutions.

Make slow...and methodical changes. Don't change to much too fast....or again, you'll end up with issues. Take it slow and steady - and you'll be solid. Just gotta learn your tank and it's biological system.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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You don't need to dose/add a No3 or Po4 additive, to bring up your nutrients. Remember.. your LFS, companies like BRS - they want you to treat issues with chemicals and medias...its how they make money. There are much...much easier (and cheaper) ways, to manage low nutrients.

Managing low nutrients - is very simple:

1. Start by removing any media take it out! Your tank is starving...it wants food. Media -is sucking up, what little nutrients are there. Stuff like GFO, chemi-pure, Phosguard. Don't stress carbon.

2. Stop or reduce WCs - again, starving tank. If you use WCs for parameter control....then move this down a few spots.

3. Remove filter socks or fleece. These trap a LOT of organics and nutrients. Removing them -will help put organics into the tank.

4. Put your skimmer and/or refugium on a timer - keep in mind, if you don't have enough surface agitation...the lack of skimmer, to oxygenate the water - will kill your fish (I've done it). I've put an airstone in my sump - on the opposite time, my skimmer was off.

5. Just feed more - fish food OR coral. Corals...eat what fish eat. Coral foods...are simply a bonus. Coral additives can be great, for raising nutrients - especially Po4.

* certain coral foods (like Reef Roids) are basically pure Po4. So they can be great, for raising levels

Your system is exporting nutrients well- too well. For now - remember, that may change. Reef tanks are constantly growing and evolving dinos one week..GHA the next. Things can change...quickly, if we
rush solutions.

Make slow...and methodical changes. Don't change to much too fast....or again, you'll end up with issues. Take it slow and steady - and you'll be solid. Just gotta learn your tank and it's biological system.

While I agree that there certainly are other ways to raise N and P, I am not BRS or an LFS or anyone trying to sell anyone here anything. Nor have I ever recommended buying an N and/or P additive from BRS or an LFS.

But I most definitely think that dosing N or P or both can often have significant benefits over most of the methods you propose, and is often the best and maybe the only suitable answer.

Most notable among those cases are when you have normal to high levels of N or P and undetectable levels of the other.

With the exception of your first suggestion to remove appropriate media, your recommendations do not deal with that scenario.

Dosing food grade sodium (or calcium) nitrate and sodium or potassium phosphate is also likely going to be cheaper than feeding more. Almost no one should discard dosing those options due to cost.
 

Bph

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Hi Randy I recently bought food grade Trisodium Phosphate and Sodium Nitrate to make my own Phosphate and Nitrates additives due to my tanks having o readings of bpth. Would you please tell me how to mix my own solutions? Thank you Bph. Ps I bought the brands you reccomended from amazon.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Hi Randy I recently bought food grade Trisodium Phosphate and Sodium Nitrate to make my own Phosphate and Nitrates additives due to my tanks having o readings of bpth. Would you please tell me how to mix my own solutions? Thank you Bph. Ps I bought the brands you reccomended from amazon.

Sure. Use this calculator and the entries for phosphate from potassium phosphate and nitrate from potassium nitrate. They are close enough.

Pick a stock dosing solution volume you wan to make (say, 500 ml or whatever) and go from there:


If you need more help, just let us know.
 

Bph

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Ok Randy this is Beulah I purchased Loudwolf Trisodium Phosphate 113 grams if I go by the James planted tank calculator . 36g to 100ml of RO DI water to make my solution is this correct? I also purchased Modernist pantry Sodium Nitrate 400g/14 oz James planted tank calc. Says 36g per 100ml of RO DI water? I am trying to mix up my solution for Phosphate and Nitrates solution to dose my tanks with. I am trying not to make any mistake. Thank you.
 

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