Thinking of going to Kalk, have some questions on selection and setup.

[hhaase]

I've been fighting low Ph levels in my tank since day 1. It's in a basement, I've got a gas furnace on the same floor, and it's in a location where I can't easily run an outside air line to my skimmer. I'm already using soda ash for my alk dosage, and I still can't break past the 7.9's. So I'm thinking of moving some of my dosing to kalkwasser. I've got some equipment questions to make sure it'll set up the way I want.

1: Any stirrers that can be used as external units, not in-sump? If possible I'd like to set it up in my utility room where I've got my RO/DI and water tanks, which is a 30ft tubing run from the tank. All horizontal, no head height involved. This would make my life a lot easier than having to put it under the tank with the sump. I've got 4 power bar channels available on my GHL in the utility room, and none under the tank.

2: Can anybody recommend a good pump to use? I currently use an Aqualifter for my ATO pump, and it does fine at that length of a tubing run, but they're not exactly available right now.

 

[hhaase]

Seems like my idea is possible, but there aren't a huge number of options for having a remotely mounted kalk stirrer. Most need to be used at the sump due to the overflow style outlets and still require a controlled/timed outlet for the mixing pump or motor. So Avast, Icecap, Bubble Magus, Reef Octopus are all no-good for my configuration.

TLF or Tunze would work, as they don't have mixing pumps or motors. So I can mount at the sump and just run a line to the ATO tank. Between the two I think the TLF would probably be a better choice. But either of these wouldn't really be much different than if I filled an un-used media reactor with kalk mix. (Hmmmmmm)

Geo - Looks like it would work, and has a threaded lid for filling. Don't like the idea of using a pump though.

MRC (My Reef Creations) - Looks like it would work, but also looks like more work to maintain. Also still has a pump.

I'm also getting some good DIY ideas as I look at things. So I may just go that way and convert over an extra reactor I have sitting around.

 

[Midrats]

I wouldn't waste your money on some contraption when a still reservoir and a peristaltic pump works better. I use a Litermeter and a Brute, it couldn't get any simpler, and the Litermeter can pump that distance and more.

 

[All_talk]

I have been running the Tunze for many years and I am getting ready to switch to a still reservoir and peristaltic pump.

The issue with the Tunze, and many others, is the kalk concentration drops between refills. I fill mine weekly and can see my PH decline through the week, then jump back up after I add kalk. I am currently working to make my parameters more stable, and I'm hoping changing the way I dose Kalk will help.

 

[hhaase]

I've seen the term "Still Reservoir" a few times, is that essentially just another bulk water tank of RO but with the kalk mixed in? I'd love to see a picture of how you've got that set up.

I definitely see the value but not sure if I have the room to set up a third tank in addition to my RO and change water tanks. Unless I'm understanding the concept wrong.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I wouldn't waste your money on some contraption when a still reservoir and a peristaltic pump works better. I use a Litermeter and a Brute, it couldn't get any simpler, and the Litermeter can pump that distance and more.

+1. I used a stirrer for a while. It was more of a pain than my 40 gallon brute. I have a Litremeter also. Plumb the Brute to the sump from about anywhere and the Litremeter will deliver water from it.

 

[All_talk]

Yes, another tank of RODI with kalk mixed in, and covered (exposure to CO2 will degrade the potency of the mixture).

In my case, I am currently running my ATO through the kalk stirrer, which in addition to the consistency problem, does not allow for good control over how much is dosed. My current DIRO reservoir is a 20 gal aquarium, and I go through about 5-7 gal a week for evaporation. My future setup will replace the 20 gal with two 10 gal tanks, one with saturated kalk and one DIRO. Kalk will be dosed based on Alk/Cak requirements and the ATO with make up the rest.

 

[hhaase]

+1. I used a stirrer for a while. It was more of a pain than my 40 gallon brute. I have a Litremeter also. Plumb the Brute to the sump from about anywhere and the Litremeter will deliver water from it.

How fast do you go through the 40 gallons in the brute? I wonder if maybe I could get away with a smaller tank or bucket for the time being to evaluate if a bulk tank would work. I don't have a terribly large amount of room to work but I could probably squeak in a 10 gallon poly tank or something potentially.

 

[ReefGeezer]

How fast do you go through the 40 gallons in the brute? I wonder if maybe I could get away with a smaller tank or bucket for the time being to evaluate if a bulk tank would work. I don't have a terribly large amount of room to work but I could probably squeak in a 10 gallon poly tank or something potentially.

I have a 90. 40 gallons lasts about 4 weeks if I don't top it off at all. I tend to top off the Brute and add kalk every two to three weeks. Mark the outside with volume lines so you will about know how much water you added at top off.

Round glass table tops work well as a top for the Brutes. I bought mine at a garage sale.

 

[jhuntstl]

I have a 90. 40 gallons lasts about 4 weeks if I don't top it off at all. I tend to top off the Brute and add kalk every two to three weeks. Mark the outside with volume lines so you will about know how much water you added at top off.

Round glass table tops work well as a top for the Brutes. I bought mine at a garage sale.

Good tip on the round glass top. I use an avast k1, but I've been thinking of simplifying to a 44g brute.

 

[hhaase]

I do appreciate all the info, gives me a lot to think about. I usually over-think things and take a long time to decide and make changes on my system, so I'm not sure yet what I'm going to do yet.

I think I'll pick up a higher flow dosing pump of some type and see if a still/reservoir setup can help me with the Ph, and decide from there. Cheap and easy enough to set up for now at least.

 

[Dukereefnz]

Does the kalk settle at the bottom of the brute?
And you do not stir it?
And this is your ATO?

I WAS about to buy a kalk avast K1.......
So very interest in how this works, I'm still in the build stages but getting close.. 200g.

 

[Midrats]

Yes, solids settle to the bottom of the can. The terminus of the hose is suspended above the bottom. The only time it is stirred is when it is refilled and new kalk is added. The can rarely needs to be cleaned. I have left the sludge in there for years before a cleaning. I use no other ATO, only my evaporation dialed into the Litermeter with seasonal adjustments.

 

[DavidinGA]

I wouldn't waste your money on some contraption when a still reservoir and a peristaltic pump works better. I use a Litermeter and a Brute, it couldn't get any simpler, and the Litermeter can pump that distance and more.

Came here to say this. Exactly what I do. KISS method ftw

 

[hhaase]

I really need to know more about what's causing my low PH before I try and come up with a solution for it.

In the meantime, I've got an un-used dosing head right now at the tank, so I can set up a small gallon or so jug of kalkwasser to test out if it'll even help with my problem.

 

[Jmcg89]

I also just mix kalk jnto my top off water, two brute containers in the room next to the tank, 1 Inch pipe a couple inches off the bottom goes from the tanks to the sump where a small line and float feed the sump. I mix it into 5 gallon bucks and dump that into the brutes. I keep the valves closed for about 30 mins so it can settle. I clean the sludge out maybe every 6 months. Works for me!

 

[sdreef]

I've been fighting low Ph levels in my tank since day 1. It's in a basement, I've got a gas furnace on the same floor, and it's in a location where I can't easily run an outside air line to my skimmer. I'm already using soda ash for my alk dosage, and I still can't break past the 7.9's. So I'm thinking of moving some of my dosing to kalkwasser. I've got some equipment questions to make sure it'll set up the way I want.

1: Any stirrers that can be used as external units, not in-sump? If possible I'd like to set it up in my utility room where I've got my RO/DI and water tanks, which is a 30ft tubing run from the tank. All horizontal, no head height involved. This would make my life a lot easier than having to put it under the tank with the sump. I've got 4 power bar channels available on my GHL in the utility room, and none under the tank.

2: Can anybody recommend a good pump to use? I currently use an Aqualifter for my ATO pump, and it does fine at that length of a tubing run, but they're not exactly available right now.

I have K1 stirrer located next to my sump in the stand and add water that I push from my garage 90' away using a DOS. Regarding the stirrer, it works adequately for me, but I can't think of way to set it up remotely. I use the kalk for a pH boost, but I use a doser as my primary means of maintaining the water chemistry. I add 2 liters of kalk solution a day and this supplements calcium and alk and bumps up the pH.

The downside to the stirrer is the potency of the solution drops off daily even when there is kalk in the stirrer. I have used the two little fishies kalk and ESV kalk. I like the ESV, it seems to mix better and I can immediately get the solution nearly saturated, but then it drops.

I top off the kalk once every two weeks and this seems to work well for me. In the figure below, I didn't get a chance to top off til the 3 week mark and the potency dropped way off. I am measuring the conductivity of the solution in the stirrer with a PM2 module and conductivity probe.

After topping off the kalk, you can see how the potency continues to decline on a daily basis. This is despite having a layer of kalk at the bottom of the stirrer.

This set up continues to work for me, but important to recognize the limitations of the stirrer. For me, I have a space and size constraint issue, but the best set up would be to have a large container containing mixed kalk solution to high potency and then simply dosing this solution. This is more than keeping it simple, it really is the best way to add kalk if you have the space to accomodate the setup. That way, you wouldn't need to deal with the change in potency of the kalk solution as a variable. In my case, since it isn't the primary method of maintaining the water chemistry, the current setup works adequately for me.

Last thing about kalk, is I see people often talk about dosing it over night to flatten the pH curve. You can certainly do this, but in our closed systems that is also when alkalinity consumption decreases so you will increase fluctuation in alkalinity. Just a choice that you need to make. I set up the following intervals in an effort to flatten the alkalinity curve. As it turns out in my system the largest consumption is in the afternoon and evening as the lights are dimming. Not sure why that is, but I don't dose any kalk after midnight until the morning. No question the later dosing interval also flattens the pH curve as well, but just consider balancing priorities.

A million ways to do this, but this is my current setup.

Alkalinity

pH curve

This thread is also worthwhile read in case you haven't seen it.

When do you add more calcium hydroxide to Kalk stirrer?

My pH has always been 7.9 to 8.1 or so. I bought a Kalk stirrer to offset the added CO2 coming from my calcium reactor to see if I could bump it up a tad. I've been going slow, increasing the amount dosed (via APEX DOS) every few days. I began with the recommended 150 grams of calcium hydroxide...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[hhaase]

I opted to not make any changes at all, after doing some further digging.

I picked up a CO2 meter for my house, and the CO2 levels are nowhere near as high as I suspected. I was expecting 1500ppm. I'm seeing around 600ppm, which shouldn't be causing the low Ph problems I was seeing.

After multiple recalibrations, I'm not trusting my PH readings any more. My handheld probe says 7.7, my Profilux says 8.3, but my livestock are all acting happy. So I'm going to trust the tank health and ignore my PH measurements for now until I can get some resolution on what my actual PH is.

But I do thank you guys for all the input. Gives me a lot to think about going forward.