This hobby is getting out of control with costs

[Widdlyscudds]

Just buy indoor gardening fixtures. ATI and the like are just price gouged. literally 1/4 the price you can also find bulbs for significantly cheaper. I highly recommend htg supply for bulbs and fixtures. Here in CO there is literally an entire industry centered around growing things indoors. stop buying this overpriced nonsense and they will stop selling it. only thing I can't find is heavy blue bulbs. still have to buy from the Germans for those. 4ft 8 bulb fixture is less than 300 dollars from HTG supply. I dare you to find a fixture anywhere in the same realm from the "marine hobby" community. they gouge us because they know we'll pay. https://www.htgsupply.com/products/slimstar-4-foot-8-lamp-t5-w-6400k-bulbs/ just gonna leave this here

 

[Dbichler]

I agree everything has gone up way too much. However nothing you buy has to be name brand to be successful. I can afford any of the top brand items yet never will. I have mo40s bought used and Jebaos are way better in my opinion they break and I can replace them 8 times before the cost of one name brand. Lighting I don’t care about dialing in all spectrums but noopsyche was cheap so I tried and they work. Yes anytime you go off brand there’sa chance it fails but overall you will end up saving money. Fish and corals on the other hand is due to us hobbyist buying at stupid prices if we stop they eventually will go down but I don’t foresee that happening any time soon.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

There's a lot to unpack with how prices in this hobby seem to move faster than inflation. It seems like the perfect platform to slowly increase prices as we see the revolving door of hobbyist come and go... prices increase and the new hobbyists is none the wiser. There's very little continuity, and threads like this become, "old timers yelling at clouds".

These failed attempts at a call to action don't go far enough. I agree that prices are way out of control, but until we can join together as consumers and act as one, we are just yelling at clouds.

Pretty soon, there's going to be a lot of clever deflection, "you don't have to buy the most expensive", "buy used", "if it's too expensive, then try another hobby", "Isnt this capitalism in a nutshell?", "supply and demand". People will latch onto those statements and try to either defend or support such statements and just like that the conversation has been thwarted.

I don't understand why we as hobbyist allow companies to dictate these ever rising costs?? If we hope against hope that a company will start undercutting others to drive prices down then we're living in a fantasy world.

Most companies realize that a rising tide lifts all boats. Meaning if the Cadillac of reefing equipment increases prices, my product will increase as well.

For a lot of these companies, product life cycle suggests that production prices decrease over time, yet we see costs go up on stuff that has been in the market for decades.... Profit, profit, profit on the backs of the unsuspecting consumer.

 

[gbroadbridge]

This. I went full circle to what I was doing at the turn of the millennium and it's working fine.

It works fine if you have the experience.

The big bucks come in when you try to make a complex biological system as easy to use as beer coaster.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Just buy indoor gardening fixtures. ATI and the like are just price gouged. literally 1/4 the price you can also find bulbs for significantly cheaper. I highly recommend htg supply for bulbs and fixtures. Here in CO there is literally an entire industry centered around growing things indoors. stop buying this overpriced nonsense and they will stop selling it. only thing I can't find is heavy blue bulbs. still have to buy from the Germans for those. 4ft 8 bulb fixture is less than 300 dollars from HTG supply. I dare you to find a fixture anywhere in the same realm from the "marine hobby" community. they gouge us because they know we'll pay. https://www.htgsupply.com/products/slimstar-4-foot-8-lamp-t5-w-6400k-bulbs/ just gonna leave this here

LOL! That is exactly what I'm running! But it's the bulbs that are at risk of going away.

 

[Widdlyscudds]

LOL! That is exactly what I'm running! But it's the bulbs that are at risk of going away.

ayyyy nice. I hear ya, I really hope that doesn't happen but we will just have to wait and see. It's my hope that if that does happen the very same company's that produce these lower cost t5 fixtures will switch to lower cost led fixtures.

 

[Troylee]

Stop buying the crap and it will go down.. I bought my skimmer for $40 and my tank for $200 and my wave makers on Amazon for $19 and my tank is flourishing haha! I splurged on a radion and that’s it! I wanted a metal halide but hard to find a 24” fixture.. no dozer no controllers no nothing! It’s the same way I rolled in the 90’s and it still works today.. people’s laziness is what drove prices up when everyone wanted everything automated.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

If you're going for just the necessities, you can do this hobby for cheap. You can get a standard, rimmed tank and stand at any pet store for a few hundred dollars. Add a HOB skimmer, AC powerheads, lights of your choice, heater, some rocks and sand, and you're probably checking in around $1,200 or so. Add a few fish of your choice, another few hundred. Add a $500 Battlebox, which will come with enough corals to stock almost any tank. Add some testing supplies and miscellaneous stuff, and you're probably right around $2,000. That would be an absolutely beautiful tank.

But this hobby isn't about necessities. This hobby really is by definition an exercise in excess. Nobody wants the $500 tank/stand combo from Petsmart. They want the latest $2,000 IM or Waterbox tank/stand. People don't want a HOB skimmer, they want a sump to hide the equipment. People don't want a handful of $80 Sicce powerheads, they want a handful of $600 Ecotechs. People don't want $700 of capable, dependable T5s, they want $3k of the latest-and-greatest Ecotech LEDs. People don't want to buy a box of reasonably priced, beautiful corals and watch they grow. They want the $200/polpy zoanthid flavor-of-the-day or $800 per 3/4" of WD or Homewrecker. And when the next trendy acro or zoa comes along, they want that too.

And that's not even including a controller, which I'm hearing is a necessity these days and probably almost thousands of dollars once you consider controller-connected devices like AWC pumps, dosing pumps, and automated testing device like the Trident.

If you want to do this hobby cheap, you can. I just don't think people actually want to do that.

 

[liddojunior]

I’m mainly an experienced freshwater hobbyist. I’m new to saltwater.
The cost difference is absolutely insane. And I’m not talking about the livestock. If some sticks cost a lot of money, I feel that’s understandable. It’s a very finite resource and high demand.

But the cost of equipment and starting out is insane. You can save money and get the bare essentials and budget equipment. But the cost is comparable to a mid tier or high end equipment for freshwater! I understand that products that products that need to make money, last long and doesn’t sell as often. A protein skimmer market isn’t that amazing I wouldnt imagine everyweek you’re moving tons of units. And the cost is for the long term investment. But at some point it seems counter productive, you can’t put the barrier of entry too high for new people. It doesn’t help the hobby!
If you look at freshwater and are told you can get the most high end luxury equipment from ADA at this cost. Or get budget saltwater gear for the same cost. The hobby is going to hurt in the long run. I don’t see a new skimmer and see where 700$ improved the item. The most pressing issue I think is the increase cost doesn’t seem to make the hobby easier but instead add more challenges! I feel like there isn’t obviously effort being made to make it easier. New hobbyist are told you need a skimmer, and then they are literally still equipment that is hard to setup and tune. Why isn’t there any plug and play skimmers. And on top of that, you get the skimmer and your nutrients bottom out and that causes issues and it feels like you spent $$ to add work.

 

[workhz]

You can do it on the cheap relatively speaking. Btw, so what if a pump doubles in price over 20 years? Has your salary or your home or investments or a gallon of milk or cars not doubled in 20 years?

doubling in 20 years is 3.5% per year compounded annually. Definitely not the most egregious example.

I’m kinda happy you can get ‘cheap’ black box led lights. Those didn’t exist 20 years ago.

 

[Jared Bryant]

What amazes me is we had great MH diy fixtures that were VERY cheap to build. These cheap DIY MH were better than any LED on the market now which are thousands of dollars now. I also use 4 kessil a360s leds on my current tank. I will be going back to halide soon.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

I’m mainly an experienced freshwater hobbyist. I’m new to saltwater.
The cost difference is absolutely insane. And I’m not talking about the livestock. If some sticks cost a lot of money, I feel that’s understandable. It’s a very finite resource and high demand.

But the cost of equipment and starting out is insane. You can save money and get the bare essentials and budget equipment. But the cost is comparable to a mid tier or high end equipment for freshwater! I understand that products that products that need to make money, last long and doesn’t sell as often. A protein skimmer market isn’t that amazing I wouldnt imagine everyweek you’re moving tons of units. And the cost is for the long term investment. But at some point it seems counter productive, you can’t put the barrier of entry too high for new people. It doesn’t help the hobby!
If you look at freshwater and are told you can get the most high end luxury equipment from ADA at this cost. Or get budget saltwater gear for the same cost. The hobby is going to hurt in the long run. I don’t see a new skimmer and see where 700$ improved the item. The most pressing issue I think is the increase cost doesn’t seem to make the hobby easier but instead add more challenges! I feel like there isn’t obviously effort being made to make it easier. New hobbyist are told you need a skimmer, and then they are literally still equipment that is hard to setup and tune. Why isn’t there any plug and play skimmers. And on top of that, you get the skimmer and your nutrients bottom out and that causes issues and it feels like you spent $$ to add work.

Also a new salt water coming from 30 years of fresh, what I see is so many reefers are pushing the latest and greatest what ever. Your are made to fill what you have is junk and not worthy of salt water. I run into this ever time I try and coach a new reefer on More cost effective alternative items, like t5 lights using indoor grow fixtures. I have 250.00 dollars Total in my t5s over a 90 gal tank. Then someone will come on and tell the new reefer how that is not the best way to go, you need this led or that led . Just one example. Tell me what is wrong with indoor grow t5s. My 2 month old tank is attached

 

[LPS Bum]

Its bad enough we have reached the age of $800-$1200 lights, Ive seeing test equipment approaching the $200 mark, 110 gallon Tanks for $4000-5000 and now another skimmer released by Adaptive reef starting at $769.00 !!!
Add the cost of fish and coral which is out of control and it questions Who can afford this and impact on a new hobbyist that wants a reef tank

Agreed, but (so far) the market bears it out. Same thing with overpriced corals. If we hobbyists are willing to pay these inflated prices, we can't blame the manufacturers and coral farms for maximizing their profits. Supply and demand. Capitalism 101.

 

[I never finish anythi]

In the early 2000 years I paid $338 for an MP-60
How do manufacturers justify these increases without saying " we are Not getting taken advantage of" ?

Its the consumer's fault for paying those stupid prices .

 

[Robert Ranciato]

Yup its ridiculous and company's like Ecotech and world wide corals are to blame

 

[MichaelReefer]

If people keep buying them, they will keep making them. Cant understand how anyone can justify an $800 powerhead. I'll stick with my Nero 5s.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

It still comes down to peer pressure to buy the latest and greatest name brand. Imo

 

[LPS Bum]

There's a lot to unpack with how prices in this hobby seem to move faster than inflation. It seems like the perfect platform to slowly increase prices as we see the revolving door of hobbyist come and go... prices increase and the new hobbyists is none the wiser. There's very little continuity, and threads like this become, "old timers yelling at clouds".

These failed attempts at a call to action don't go far enough. I agree that prices are way out of control, but until we can join together as consumers and act as one, we are just yelling at clouds.

Pretty soon, there's going to be a lot of clever deflection, "you don't have to buy the most expensive", "buy used", "if it's too expensive, then try another hobby", "Isnt this capitalism in a nutshell?", "supply and demand". People will latch onto those statements and try to either defend or support such statements and just like that the conversation has been thwarted.

I don't understand why we as hobbyist allow companies to dictate these ever rising costs?? If we hope against hope that a company will start undercutting others to drive prices down then we're living in a fantasy world.

Most companies realize that a rising tide lifts all boats. Meaning if the Cadillac of reefing equipment increases prices, my product will increase as well.

For a lot of these companies, product life cycle suggests that production prices decrease over time, yet we see costs go up on stuff that has been in the market for decades.... Profit, profit, profit on the backs of the unsuspecting consumer.

I wouldn't say "supply and demand" and "capitalism" are clever deflections. They're just reality. If enough hobbyists refuse to buy what they consider to be overpriced equipment, fish, and corals, then the demand will plummet and the prices will go with it.

Also, don't forget that inflated prices and surging demand drive innovation. Most of these advances in equipment technology have only come about because people are willing to pay for them. If hobbyists only wanted the cheapest pumps, filters and lights, the hobby wouldn't be seeing the technology advances.

I wish it was a cheaper hobby too (we all do), but so long as the market bears out these inflated prices, they will continue to stick around.

 

[flashsmith]

 

[Blue Spot Octopus]

Too many people try to make a living out of this hobby, that in one way drove up the price and on the other hand it made it cheaper, in 2007 skimmers were really expensive and then when the economy got whacked we were flooded with copy cat skimmers and the price was cut in half.
So people started to want better C/S and the price started to climb again, the latest COVID and supply chain issues have been brutal with the cost of fish and corals. Black Fridays sales are not what they used to be. The skimmer I purchased prior to COVID is 200 dollars cheaper than the last Black Friday sale.