Gtinnel
10K Club member
Hahaha I was trying to find an answer about this earlier and couldn't after the other thread got shut down. I unfortunately didn't find out about the prices until after everything was sold out and the prices were fixed.
Thoughts on the new BRS? (ECOTECH, NEPTUNE, MARINE DEPOT, BRS)
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Coral Your World
Well-Known Member
Anyone? Any update? Lol
tomboys
Active Member
"If you don't have competition then ideas stagnate and prices go up."
If no one is available to challenge BRS then where do you go for a better price, product or experience? 
That's why in Europe we have laws against monopolies. If a company over here gets too big and dominates the market too much, they are forcibly broken up into separate companies by the government. These companies can have nothing to do with each other and can't behave like they're still the same company. You just don't have the same laws in America. To be honest though - BRS doesn't affect us THAT much, because they don't trade over here anyway - if they did, there would probably be restrictions about what they could do because of the law I mentioned above.
Nope not even close. We have monopoly laws in the US too. BRS isn't even close to being a monopoly.
Gtinnel
10K Club member
Yea it's laughable to think of BRS as being a monopoly since generally when you hear about antitrust reform its in regards to companies like Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook, and Microsoft. Umm BRS (or Bertram Capital I guess) has a really, really, really long way to go before it would be a monopoly.
JNalley
Valuable Member
A monopoly is defined as a dominant position of an industry or a sector by one company, to the point of excluding all other viable competitors.
If we look at it from a Retail perspective, SaltwaterAquarium and Premium Aquatics (Edit: Plus all of the other LFS's throughout the country) still have a large portion of the market, not as large as BRS, but significant enough that it wouldn't be a monopoly on the retail side. As for the Neptune aspect of it, this has significantly more market share in the US than CoralVue, GHL, or Dalua (listed in order of market share), but I still am not sure it's enough of a dominant position to be classified as a Monopoly on Aquarium controllers. So... No Monopoly exists currently. If there was one, the US has some pretty strict Monopoly Laws, just look at what happened to Ma Bell/AT&T when it got broken up into all of the Baby Bells (Bell South, Pacific Bell, etc).
Oh and since the "other" thread got shut down, I';m generally curious if anyone got that GHL stuff shipped out?
Gtinnel
10K Club member
See I wouldn't think that would even be the case for Neptune and aquarium controllers since Hydros is becoming more popular and I know people that just bought a ton of GHL stuff.
JNalley
Valuable Member
I'd say it's a close call, Hydros (if anyone does the math) might be cheaper to startup, but it's far more expensive than even GHL when you consider the costs of the Alkatronic vs KH Director and the Mastertronic vs ION Director, heck the Mastertronic is more expensive than the reefbot which functions exactly the same, lol
Besides were talking a hobby here, pretty sure the big bad government won't jump in if BRS is the only one to sell HOBBY equipment.
There are plenty of mom and pop stores around the country. BRS is not even close to being a monopoly.
EDIT:
They may very well end up being the only place on the internet to buy hobby stuff, but by no means are the only ones across the country to buy hobby equipment.
If the internet was the metric to monopoly, heck amazon or even ebay has to be pretty close then too?
There are plenty of mom and pop stores around the country. BRS is not even close to being a monopoly.
EDIT:
They may very well end up being the only place on the internet to buy hobby stuff, but by no means are the only ones across the country to buy hobby equipment.
If the internet was the metric to monopoly, heck amazon or even ebay has to be pretty close then too?
Gtinnel
10K Club member
Oh sorry I was actually just posting that to make fun of the fact that people bought a ton of GHL stuff for way too cheap. I didn't mean my comment to in anyway be taken seriously.
On a serious note though I'd agree with @homer1475 that the government likely wouldn't step in when we are talking about such a small niche market. Plus I would bet just talking about aquarium supplies in general walmart/petco/petsmart/amazon/chewy all have a pretty good market share as well in terms of the retail part.
tomboys
Active Member
Fair enough, from what I was hearing it sounded more dominant than that - but I'm not in America, so I'm just going by what all you guys are saying.
I've never actually heard of Ma Bell/AT&T or Bell South, Pacific Bell etc. I didn't actually think you had strict monopoly laws, but fair enough.
You also have to consider perception. Even though companies like apple or samsung control 90% of the market share, it does not mean that there are not other competitive products out there. They are just not in the "limelight".
GlassMunky
2500 Club Member
And Amazon is currently being looked into about being a monopoly….
Looked into, and brought up on charges are 2 different things. Just because your a suspect, doesn't mean you actually did it, just someone thought you did.
But I guess in this day and age, even if your a suspect, your already guilty.
You can be looked into for a crime, but if you didn't commit it, you wouldn't be charged.
Not even sure how amazon could be thought of as a monopoly? If amazon is a monopoly, then any big box store is too. Amazon is not the only place to buy 99% of the stuff on there, therefore it cannot be a monopoly by definition.
But I guess in this day and age, even if your a suspect, your already guilty.
You can be looked into for a crime, but if you didn't commit it, you wouldn't be charged.
Not even sure how amazon could be thought of as a monopoly? If amazon is a monopoly, then any big box store is too. Amazon is not the only place to buy 99% of the stuff on there, therefore it cannot be a monopoly by definition.
Radman73
Valuable Member
Not just you lol! Way too many options out there for me to care. I do my best to support my LFS anyway. BRS, Amazon, or any other retailer is a last resort.
Jen1978
Active Member
I've been pondering this question all day. I do not own anything from Neptune at the moment but would like to.
A little info on my tank.
55 gallon aquenon. No sump. Filtration comes from AquaMaxx HOB all in one and a canister.
That said, I really have no need for a controller from Neptune as all I need to control I can do through my AI and Kamoer apps. I am however attracted to their 4 probes for monitoring purposes. It would be nice to see Neptune put out just the 4 probes and the brain (at a decent price) without having to buy all the frills.
That said, I firmly believe that BRS really cares about helping others in the reefing community and if enough people would ask for such a package, I'm sure they could make it happen.
A little info on my tank.
55 gallon aquenon. No sump. Filtration comes from AquaMaxx HOB all in one and a canister.
That said, I really have no need for a controller from Neptune as all I need to control I can do through my AI and Kamoer apps. I am however attracted to their 4 probes for monitoring purposes. It would be nice to see Neptune put out just the 4 probes and the brain (at a decent price) without having to buy all the frills.
That said, I firmly believe that BRS really cares about helping others in the reefing community and if enough people would ask for such a package, I'm sure they could make it happen.
Jen1978
Active Member
You are spot on. Another thing people aren't acknowledging is that BRS and Neptune have had a relationship for quite some time. They have a long history of getting together for concepts. This could be a win win. BRS can make sure that new concepts that the customers want are made possible with their funding.
JNalley
Valuable Member
This issue is complex, and it does affect the market in a major way, even if there are some of you who think it's just going to be business as usual. However, we also do not have all the information necessary to do anything other than make assumptions. Different assumptions (if found to be true) will also have different consequences and nuanced differences that could be favorable or detrimental to us as consumers.
For instance, the press release from Neptune says that BRS and Neptune Merged. A company merger is far different from Neptune joining the Bertram Financial group, which is something that seems to be said here but contradicts the press release, so which is it? In one scenario (where BRS and Neptune merged), BRS will likely never do reviews of Hydros or GHL ecosystems, while in the other scenario, they can. Neptune being a part of BRS means that BRS's success is hinged on Neptune's success, while Neptune being a part of Bertram means that BRS can support Neptune, but it's not on them to make Neptune succeed, because if Neptune fails, BRS still survives. If they are a part of the Bertram group and didn't merge with BRS, then that is much better for the market than if they did.
Another assumption some are making (myself included) is that Bertram bought a controlling share of BRS. There has been no evidence to the contrary, but there is no evidence to support that claim either. This plays a large role in whether or not it's business as usual.
Both of these things are key points in determining how it will affect the overall market. I also think the biggest issue most are missing is that BRS is also an information hub, in fact, it could be considered the information hub now that Marine Depot is no longer around. The thing everyone should be afraid of (the worst-case scenario) is that a single point of information, that is controlled by a venture capital firm, which has purchased the largest controller company, and the largest lighting and wavemaker companies is not an ideal world. It will severely hinder market share, which will slow innovation, and lead to a less diverse market. Of course, if Bertram doesn't have a controlling share, and Bertram directly owns Neptune, and Neptune and BRS didn't "merge", then that's the most ideal form of this and things can be business as usual, with just a little extra product placement for BRS to help out its sister companies.
For instance, the press release from Neptune says that BRS and Neptune Merged. A company merger is far different from Neptune joining the Bertram Financial group, which is something that seems to be said here but contradicts the press release, so which is it? In one scenario (where BRS and Neptune merged), BRS will likely never do reviews of Hydros or GHL ecosystems, while in the other scenario, they can. Neptune being a part of BRS means that BRS's success is hinged on Neptune's success, while Neptune being a part of Bertram means that BRS can support Neptune, but it's not on them to make Neptune succeed, because if Neptune fails, BRS still survives. If they are a part of the Bertram group and didn't merge with BRS, then that is much better for the market than if they did.
Another assumption some are making (myself included) is that Bertram bought a controlling share of BRS. There has been no evidence to the contrary, but there is no evidence to support that claim either. This plays a large role in whether or not it's business as usual.
Both of these things are key points in determining how it will affect the overall market. I also think the biggest issue most are missing is that BRS is also an information hub, in fact, it could be considered the information hub now that Marine Depot is no longer around. The thing everyone should be afraid of (the worst-case scenario) is that a single point of information, that is controlled by a venture capital firm, which has purchased the largest controller company, and the largest lighting and wavemaker companies is not an ideal world. It will severely hinder market share, which will slow innovation, and lead to a less diverse market. Of course, if Bertram doesn't have a controlling share, and Bertram directly owns Neptune, and Neptune and BRS didn't "merge", then that's the most ideal form of this and things can be business as usual, with just a little extra product placement for BRS to help out its sister companies.
Or the newest generation when people decide to go with a different brand. Yes, I’ve sold the newest generations more than once.
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