Thoughts on the Tropic Marin Carbon Dosing Method? Do you use it?

[MyFirstCar]

Lou from Tropic Marin has really been out selling the new Tropic Marin approach to carbon dosing (See the MACNA talk: and the BRS series: ). How many of the reefers out there are using this system and does it work?

The basic gist is that instead of using carbon dosing to lower nutrients, you carbon dose constantly, and then if you need to: add nutrients to counteract the loss of nutrients caused by the dosing itself (these nutrients are usually bottled together in their other products). The idea they propose behind this is that growing bacteria is good food for corals, and that having a constant supply of bacteria should be the primary goal of carbon dosing, not nutrient lowering.

In my mind: this logic seems to make sense, and could be similar to dosing live phyto, but also suspiciously seems like a good way for TM to turn reefers who weren't dosing anything and had fine nutrient levels into paying customers.

So, what do you think? Do you use the TM carbon dosing regularly? Do you see good results from it?

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I am actually trying this now. I bought some Plus NP because in some of my tanks I can not keep any phosphates and I feed Flake, pellets and frozen throughout the day. I started dosing Plus NP and I am up to .03 phosphate (Hannah) in a couple of my tanks that previously were at 0. Just got my order today from BRS that came with some BB and some elim NP for my other tanks.
I also can see the logic in this system. I am also doing some reef chili and Red Sea AB+
We will see how this goes... No negatives so far

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I regularly dosed vinegar for years and think that it is a very good way to drive bacteria levels to feed filter feeders such as sponges.

Whether dosing N and or P is useful at the same time will vary by system, but was not needed in my case, even at high vinegar doses.

 

[MyFirstCar]

I regularly dosed vinegar for years and think that it is a very good way to drive bacteria levels to feed filter feeders such as sponges.

Whether dosing N and or P is useful at the same time will vary by system, but was not needed in my case, even at high vinegar doses.

What do you think about the claim that their long chain compounds (probably some sort of starch) only feed the bacteria we want? Seems a little wishful to me.

Nopox makes a similar claim, that they've come up with a formulation that reduces phosphates and nitrates at the same rate, but it seems a bit dubious to me.

 

[MyFirstCar]

I am actually trying this now. I bought some Plus NP because in some of my tanks I can not keep any phosphates and I feed Flake, pellets and frozen throughout the day. I started dosing Plus NP and I am up to .03 phosphate (Hannah) in a couple of my tanks that previously were at 0. Just got my order today from BRS that came with some BB and some elim NP for my other tanks.
I also can see the logic in this system. I am also doing some reef chili and Red Sea AB+
We will see how this goes... No negatives so far

Interested to see your results!

 

[Orito]

I had a hard time having measurable po4 for a year and started having problems with dinos, started using plus np 30 days ago, now I'm at 0.1 and dinos are gone, I'm thinking about getting the bacto balance now

 

[MyFirstCar]

I had a hard time having measurable po4 for a year and started having problems with dinos, started using plus np 30 days ago, now I'm at 0.1 and dinos are gone, I'm thinking about getting the bacto balance now

Interested to see how it goes, although it will be difficult to tell if any improvement was just from the nutrient levels or the carbon dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What do you think about the claim that their long chain compounds (probably some sort of starch) only feed the bacteria we want? Seems a little wishful to me.

Nopox makes a similar claim, that they've come up with a formulation that reduces phosphates and nitrates at the same rate, but it seems a bit dubious to me.

It’s an assertion they make without supplying any evidence.

Acetate in vinegar is known to be taken up by a wide range of organisms, including corals, and I see little evidence to pick anything else unless you happen to get a type of bacteria thriving that is an aesthetic problem if some sort.

 

[stoney7713]

I use it and it keeps my nitrates in check, but doesn't help much with phosphates. I have tried the elimi NP and again it doesn't help much with the phosphates.

I use other methods to keep my phosphates down. When I finally run out of this stuff I will probably switch to vinegar.

 

[areefer01]

It’s an assertion they make without supplying any evidence.

A lot of products in this hobby do this oddly enough. Lighting to chemicals and more.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A lot of products in this hobby do this oddly enough. Lighting to chemicals and more.

Yes, in fact, I cannot think of a single example of a chemical company providing evidence of their claims about what a product can do for a reef tank.

Some claims are self evident (e.g., calcium supplied by calcium chloride) but many are highly questionable and lack any evidence.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I had a hard time having measurable po4 for a year and started having problems with dinos, started using plus np 30 days ago, now I'm at 0.1 and dinos are gone, I'm thinking about getting the bacto balance now

According to @Lou Ekus I think he would want to see the PO4 slightly higher at .04+ before you start BB

 

[Forty-Two]

personally at this stage I’m in the against carbon dosing group - for the simple reason that it can cause tank disasters quickly, and a total
loss of coral life. With the prevalence of Dino’s in the industry, the poor quality and unreliability of many test kits, a disaster is lurking around the corner with carbon dosing. Most LFS’s and vendors won’t tell you the subtle signs to look for that you’re in trouble (negating the issue of poor quality test kits) because they simply don’t know themselves - they are just hawking kit. At the end of the day is the reefer that takes the punch to the gut and many don’t have the ability to pick it all up and try again. For the vast majority - no to carbon dosing. If you’re very knowledgeable about reefing and know the signs to watch for - then it may work for you - but it’s still risky.

 

[Orito]

According to @Lou Ekus I think he would want to see the PO4 slightly higher at .04+ before you start BB

I'm at 0.1 not 0.01

Interested to see how it goes, although it will be difficult to tell if any improvement was just from the nutrient levels or the carbon dosing.

Yeah I forgot to mention that before the plus np I dosed a lot of sodium phosphate and never got a reading

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yeah I forgot to mention that before the plus np I dosed a lot of sodium phosphate and never got a reading

It can take a lot to overcome binding to rock and sand, but it will never fail to work if enough is added.

 

[Orito]

It can take a lot to overcome binding to rock and sand, but it will never fail to work if enough is added.

Yes I understand that, but I think the corals responded well and dinos are gone since started dosing, will try to stay around the 0.1 phosphate and see how it goes

 

[exnisstech]

According to @Lou Ekus I think he would want to see the PO4 slightly higher at .04+ before you start BB

Below is a copy & paste from a post I made in my build thread today. Makes no sense to me to drive phosphate and nitrate to zero using bacto balance only to have to dose to bring them up.

I started dosing 0.3ml of bacto balance daily on 6/20 more as an experiment than anything else. I have other tanks so why not play around a little with this one
Tested today and phosphates are 0 and nitrates 0 via Hanna ULR phosphates and HR Nitrate. My last test was 6/22 and nitrates were 5.3 and phosphates 0.10. I'm not digging zeros so I'm stopping the bacto balance. I know I didn't try it very long but to be honest double zeros scare me.

 

[MyFirstCar]

Below is a copy & paste from a post I made in my build thread today. Makes no sense to me to drive phosphate and nitrate to zero using bacto balance only to have to dose to bring them up.

I started dosing 0.3ml of bacto balance daily on 6/20 more as an experiment than anything else. I have other tanks so why not play around a little with this one
Tested today and phosphates are 0 and nitrates 0 via Hanna ULR phosphates and HR Nitrate. My last test was 6/22 and nitrates were 5.3 and phosphates 0.10. I'm not digging zeros so I'm stopping the bacto balance. I know I didn't try it very long but to be honest double zeros scare me.

Yeah, the double zeros are definitely not ideal. Aside from that, any change in the look of the tank?

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Below is a copy & paste from a post I made in my build thread today. Makes no sense to me to drive phosphate and nitrate to zero using bacto balance only to have to dose to bring them up.

I started dosing 0.3ml of bacto balance daily on 6/20 more as an experiment than anything else. I have other tanks so why not play around a little with this one
Tested today and phosphates are 0 and nitrates 0 via Hanna ULR phosphates and HR Nitrate. My last test was 6/22 and nitrates were 5.3 and phosphates 0.10. I'm not digging zeros so I'm stopping the bacto balance. I know I didn't try it very long but to be honest double zeros scare me.

I will have to do some more research and also watch the video again. I was under the impression that BB stabilized your phosphate where it was at, hence the balance part of the equation. Hmm... I am still using plus NP to get my Phosphate up in one tank be fore I start using the BB. I am going to be using Elim-NP in another tank, that will start tomorrow.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Makes no sense to me to drive phosphate and nitrate to zero using bacto balance only to have to dose to bring them up.

I'm not pushing a TM product, but it can make sense to boost bacteria (as food for filter feeders) using organic carbon dosing while also supplementing N and/or P so neither get too low.