Tidal surge pump

[Readywriter]

So while I am working on my build I keep coming up with random diy ideas to try. Yesterday I was thinking about how I wanted to implement variable turbulence in the water flow and the idea of a tidal surge pump came to me. The basic idea of it is build a small container, for arguments sake lets say one gallon, and then plumb it with 1) a syphon overflow with an inlet that goes to the bottom of the container and the syphon height at say 80% container capacity and 2) and an emergency drain slightly higher. The container would be kept above tank level and fed tank water at a slowish rate, say 20 gph. Once it is filled to the siphon height all that water would be siphoned out at rapid rate, and the water dumping back in like that and replacing the small volume that was removed should result in rolling turbulence that could be guided with some crafty acrylic work.

What do you guys think? Worth a try or awful idea?

 

[cilyjr]

It's not an awful idea.
If the water is pumped in slowly, would a siphon even start or would it just trickle out over the u bend at the rate of flow?

 

[X-37B]

I have seen them in large public aquariums and heard of a few who have used them at home.
I would be concerned with salt spray.
Any strong surface agitation will create salt spray, even if you cant see it.
Start a build thread so we can follow even if you dont do the tidal surge.
Have you looked at Sea Sweeps. They are still available. I am surprised how many people have never heard of them. Old school but, imo, they provide random flow with minimal power heads in your system.

 

[Pntbll687]

It's called a "carlson surge device"

Most people that used it, had a 5gal bucket and used a type of mechanism like in the inside of a toilet, so when the water level rose high enough, the flapper pulled open the drain pipe and the water would surge into the tank.

I don't know if your siphon idea would work. Only because you would have to fill the container fast enough to get a siphon, and 20gph wont get you there, it would probably just turn into a slow durso drain.

My hang up in using these is two fold.
1. How are you going to manage auto top off when you're pulling gallons out of the system?
2. How will this effect your drains going to a sump? I image it would cause lots of gurgling because the rush of water would raise the water level in the weir box and probably flow into the emergency drain

 

[o2manyfish]

On my previous 400g tank I ran a 26g Surge tank off a 2nd story balcony using 2" plumbing. The surge flow was awesome pushing the water easily all the way across and around the 8' long tank. Mine started out as a Carlson Surge device and I even had Bruce Carlson at my house who said mine was the quietest version of his surge device he had ever seen.

You have to be able to pump water into the tank to force the pipe to start a siphon and not just drain water out. There are lots of bubbles when the surge starts, then a huge bubble burst when the siphon part starts and forcefully pushes all the water out, then at the end more bubbles and a huge belch from the tank when the siphon breaks. With a 26 gallon and a 2" pipe the noises were significant and we couldn't run the tank at night. The bubbles, while not a problem for the livestock, definitely affected the view of the tank - for a few seconds and were slightly annoying. My 400g was in the room next to my TV and when the surge ran all the bubbles in the tank made the light reflecting out of the tank make the room 4x brighter. And that bothered me.

After running the Carlson device for about 7 years - the only failue being when a Rat pushed the cover aside on the outside tank, fell in and got stuck in the 2" pipe intake- I after an intense reef forum arguement switched over to a 2" motorized ball valve. This was the best way to run a surge tank. I built a simple timed relay with a float switch trigger. And was able to time the open time of the valve so that the valve closed before the tank drained low enough to break the siphon.

With a constant siphon in the pipe being turned on/off by the valve you get the ultimate surge device - Silent, No Bubbles, No Burps, Outrageous flow. For the 26g tank falling a full story thru 2" pipe the calculated water flow, for a 9 sec surge was equivalent to 22k gph push into the tank.

There is nothing else like it.

Dave B

 

[cilyjr]

I don't know if your siphon idea would work. Only because you would have to fill the container fast enough to get a siphon, and 20gph wont get you there, it would probably just turn into a slow durso drain.

This was my concern.

Most people that used it, had a 5gal bucket and used a type of mechanism like in the inside of a toilet, so when the water level rose high enough, the flapper pulled open the drain pipe and the water would surge into the tan

This is the way to accomplish this. Attaching a float to a toilet flapper would work well

 

[BeanAnimal]

It's not an awful idea.
If the water is pumped in slowly, would a siphon even start or would it just trickle out over the u bend at the rate of flow?

It is called a bell siphon

Once the water floods the outlet tub crest, the entire container will siphon and start over.

There are drawbacks... lots of bubbles pushed on start and finish. There are ways around it. Think toilet flapper. The problem with that is water hammer....

Dump boxes are an alternative, as are countless other methods (Carlson surge and Reverse Carlson Surge) there are is a HUGE thread or three at RC where these have been discussed ad-nauseam

 

[BeanAnimal]

I don't know if your siphon idea would work. Only because you would have to fill the container fast enough to get a siphon, and 20gph wont get you there, it would probably just turn into a slow durso drain.

Please see "bell siphon"

 

[Otago]

I liked this idea from Panta Rhei using magnets rather than a bell syphon, it looks like it might drain more quickly at the expense of having a moving part.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I liked this idea from Panta Rhei using magnets rather than a bell syphon, it looks like it might drain more quickly at the expense of having a moving part.

Very similar to a dump bucket or tip box, but interesting solution nonetheless.

 

[Pntbll687]

Please see "bell siphon"

That's pretty cool. I was just picturing a siphon tube with two 90 elbows like someone would use inside an overflow, thus my concern about the flow into the container not being fast enough.

Guess I learned something new today!!