Tigger & Tisbe Pods

[40B Knasty]

This is all a learning process for me as well. So far the Tigger pods has been better than what I expected. I was expecting every month getting about 2,000. So my expectations were really low. I check on them 2 times a day to see how the water smells & looks, food, egg carriers, and mating. When I checked on them a bit ago there was 9 mating in the tigger pod tank. The Tisbe/Tigger mix tank had about 25 healthy females with clutches just on the small side of the glass. The water was losing the cloudiness also.
Now that I have a good feeling about letting them just do their thing and that I found a balance that works. I will be looking forward to having a promising 5k-10k pods per week or do a 2,500-5,000 offset. Meaning on a Wednesday/Thursday for one tank and Saturday/Sunday for the other. I am weighing towards more the 5k-10k per week to spend less time on the projects.
As far as contamination. I feel that is a little harsh way of putting it. It is just pods/food. I have seen adult brine shrimp swimming around in the tisbe/tigger mix tank. I let them swim around for about a week. Then I fed them to my figure 8 puffer. I also do a 4 baby brine shrimp hatchery as well. I tried to grow them to adults, but the time it takes for them to be adults is way to long and the effort is not worth it. So I just feed the mandarin baby brine shrimp at his little feeding station setup in the display tank. This got my mandarin the taste of the brine. Now he wants the adult gut loaded with spirulina brine. Also tricked him into thinking mysis were brine by thawing out a mix of the frozen brine & mysis. Now he eats both without being tricked.

 

[40B Knasty]

I was also curious about the differences between the tisbe and tigger pods. I found this article that helped clear things up.
https://www.coralreefing.com/tisbe-pods-vs-tiger-pods-which-is-better/
It seems like the tisbe pods might be better for fish with very small mouths like seahorses and maybe smaller mandarins (like the captive bred ones that are <1") and small Pipefish. And they also stay smaller and stay in the rocks more so if you are dosing them to a reef system to supplement or seed a pod population they seem like a good choice. Especially the algagen ones. I think, because of the way they are packaged with the phyto and chaeto, that is mainly what they are designed for. Enough food to sit at the lfs for a few weeks and then feed them to a reef system at night and hopefully they will be able to stick around the rocks and populate on their own. Whereas the tigger pods are bigger so fish eat them faster. And the Reef Nutrition tigger pods are packaged differently to allow for a cleaner culture setup. But correct me if I'm wrong, I have never purchased Reef Nutrition tigger pods before.

Everything is correct there. If I was to start up a tank. First living thing in there after the cycle would 100% be the Tisbe pods from Algagen, but being on the up hill part of it having an established tank. I feel as that having tigger pods in a separate tank from the display is best just to use them as a food source. Unless the fish in the tank could careless about them like my wrasse which is very surprising and my grammica lined dartfish. Then a steady population could happen in the display.

 

[jnvd3b]

Many thanks to 40B. Just set up a 5 gallon tank, about 1/4 full, and tigger pods seem to be doing OK so far. Using spirulina powder for now and we’ll see how it all goes.

Is there a reason you can’t seed a newly cycled tank with tigger pods vs tisbe pods, other than fish will eat them all? I don’t have any fish so that’s not a worry.

 

[40B Knasty]

Many thanks to 40B. Just set up a 5 gallon tank, about 1/4 full, and tigger pods seem to be doing OK so far. Using spirulina powder for now and we’ll see how it all goes.

Is there a reason you can’t seed a newly cycled tank with tigger pods vs tisbe pods, other than fish will eat them all? I don’t have any fish so that’s not a worry.

Honestly no fish in a tank would be a perfect time for tisbe pods. Get them on your sand bed and rock work with no flow for like 10-20 minutes would be great. They will be an awesome clean up crew in about 2-3 weeks from what I seen in the 5g.
Tigger pods as a food source is better due to the Omega 3. Cyclopods are also great in nutrition as well. I am just not experienced with them. They are the size of pod between Tisbe and Tigger. I do not know of their tank temp required. I would look at that and use your best judgment which to seed a tank with. The tigger pods will be eaten by many kinds of fish vs the tisbe pods would be for the real rock work explores like a mandarin. Cyclopods you might get away with not being seen as well. Not sure on their color. The tigger pods stand out due to size and color. Where the tisbes are white/ translucent almost and small.

 

[Reef Nutrition]

Mandarins and Syngnathids will eat Tigriopus californicus all day long, even smaller individuals. Check out this dwarf seahorse going after a Tigger-Pod.



I have personal experience feeding full grown Tigger-Pods to a very small mandarin female. She ate an entire bottle a day!

Our Tigger-Pods have basically the same function as Tisbe: food for predators. The chances of either surviving in the reef tank is largely based on predators and habitat.

Chad

 

[Reef Nutrition]

Everything is correct there. If I was to start up a tank. First living thing in there after the cycle would 100% be the Tisbe pods from Algagen, but being on the up hill part of it having an established tank. I feel as that having tigger pods in a separate tank from the display is best just to use them as a food source. Unless the fish in the tank could careless about them like my wrasse which is very surprising and my grammica lined dartfish. Then a steady population could happen in the display.

We have customers that use a "bug bomb" method, cycling a tank with Tigger-Pods. Check out this video.



Chad

 

[Reef Nutrition]

What I'm trying to say here is there is no guarantee that Tisbe will populate a reef tank over Tigriopus. There is no definitive evidence of this. I appreciate that other company for blogging about it, but you have to be careful with blanket statements that have no backbone, so to speak. I just want everyone to realize that copepods aren't a one-size-fits all regarding the different species, etc.

Chad

 

[40B Knasty]

I like the idea of using chaeto as a way to help with ammonia. But how do you prevent contamination from the chaeto? Also, any thoughts on using something like Prime to lock up ammonia?

I did have a few bristle worms in the tisbe pod tank, but they died due to ammonia. They were hitchhikers from the LFS cheato. From that experience. I would say not to worry about any other contaminating species except for pods which seem to handle a certain amount of ammonia till it has spiked to high.
I use Prime in the water prior during the mixing of salt process. Prime is a binder I believe for ammonia not a remover. So if you have no filtration to pull the binded up ammonia. It will stay in the tank. A better way would to start off with a beneficial bacteria like Dr Tims or Nite-Out ll which you can buy at a Petco. Beneficial bacteria can not be overdosed. That will help the most if you are looking to help with any cycling of the NO² process.

 

[Reef Nutrition]

I did have a few bristle worms in the tisbe pod tank, but they died due to ammonia. They were hitchhikers from the LFS cheato. From that experience. I would say not to worry about any other contaminating species except for pods which seem to handle a certain amount of ammonia till it has spiked to high.
I use Prime in the water prior during the mixing of salt process. Prime is a binder I believe for ammonia not a remover. So if you have no filtration to pull the binded up ammonia. It will stay in the tank. A better way would to start off with a beneficial bacteria like Dr Tims or Nite-Out ll which you can buy at a Petco. Beneficial bacteria can not be overdosed. That will help the most if you are looking to help with any cycling of the NO² process.

Adding bacteria to a culture is an excellent idea! This is something I'm researching right now. Thanks for bringing this up.

 

[40B Knasty]

What I'm trying to say here is there is no guarantee that Tisbe will populate a reef tank over Tigriopus. There is no definitive evidence of this. I appreciate that other company for blogging about it, but you have to be careful with blanket statements that have no backbone, so to speak. I just want everyone to realize that copepods aren't a one-size-fits all regarding the different species, etc.

Chad

Agreed Chad, this approach is for feeding feeding feeding and nothing more that I am trying to put out on the table for people to get a good idea how to do in their own personal take/way to do it. I am excited to see the tigger pods are populating fast in the mix tank and there is a lot of egg carriers in there. Increasing my harvest from 2,500-5k to now 5k-10k a week will be awesome for feeding. If they survive and find away to lay a few extra in the display tank, great! I know where to find more continuously week-to-week in the 2 5g tanks.

 

[Reef Nutrition]

Agreed Chad, this approach is for feeding feeding feeding and nothing more that I am trying to put out on the table for people to get a good idea how to do in their own personal take/way to do it. I am excited to see the tigger pods are populating fast in the mix tank and there is a lot of egg carriers in there. Increasing my harvest from 2,500-5k to now 5k-10k a week will be awesome for feeding. If they survive and find away to lay a few extra in the tank great! I know where to find more continuously week-to-week in the 2 5g tanks.

I appreciate this thread more than you know. This is really important for people to see. Hobbyists CAN culture copepods if given the right guidance. Bravo to you for putting in your time to keep this thread going.

Chad

 

[40B Knasty]

I appreciate this thread more than you know. This is really important for people to see. Hobbyists CAN culture copepods if given the right guidance. Bravo to you for putting in your time to keep this thread going.

Chad

As I appreciate your insight on the defining moments. To someone like me where it is not a business and people's lively hood is at stake. The general hobbyist looking for some few sound words of advice to keep a picky eater I felt was not sufficiently out there.
First thing you hear is to "not get this fish." I started off questioning it with why? Listed the major solutions. #1 being food source. Took the plunge knowing they need pods. Their #1 natural food source. Expect them never to feed off frozens. Then I came across the feeding station from Paul B. A secondary solution to feeding. I thought if I could just get that taste in their mouth. Eventually it would find the frozen food to be palatable. So far all the stars have alined. Then I did the tricky move of adding mysis into the mix after few weeks. It is a sensible process I felt others should need to know and why not document it. I always felt proof was in the pudding. I had a passion for this kind of fish. It was my goal fish. If I can get 1 person to keep a mandarin in a better situation vs relying on the established tank, because they will wipe out an established tank. This was my take on combined ideas to get the best chance for success.
I wish everyone the best of luck with their projects. Post those pics and healthy pod eating species you plan to get. Post any questions or improvements.
I did make a video of not the best standards yesterday, but it is worth watching for any baby brine shrimp hatchery triers. As you can see I am doing this daily. Dumping a 1000 of these in. I get about 3-4 turkey basters full per hatchery.

 

[jd371]

I set up a 5g with some Chaeto and I'm starting to see the pod population take off. How often should I change the water? I haven't done it since I started roughly 3-4 weeks ago.

 

[leahfiish]

Do you think there's any risk of other types of pods out competing the Tigger pods? Like if you introduce chaeto that has amphipods and some other species of copepods, I would be worried that they might hurt the Tigger pod population.

 

[Reef Nutrition]

Do you think there's any risk of other types of pods out competing the Tigger pods? Like if you introduce chaeto that has amphipods and some other species of copepods, I would be worried that they might hurt the Tigger pod population.

It is absolutely a risk to have other zooplankton in the tank with copepods, no matter the species. I know a researcher up in Oregon that says when he finds a splash pool devoid of Tigriopus californicus, there are always amphipods there. I don't think anyone has actually observed copepods eating each other or getting eaten by another crustacean, but it stands to reason that it's totally possible. Compatibility doesn't end with fish and corals: there are compatibility issues with zooplankton as well.

Chad

 

[Reef Nutrition]

It is absolutely a risk to have other zooplankton in the tank with copepods, no matter the species. I know a researcher up in Oregon that says when he finds a splash pool devoid of Tigriopus californicus, there are always amphipods there. I don't think anyone has actually observed copepods eating each other or getting eaten by another crustacean, but it stands to reason that it's totally possible. Compatibility doesn't end with fish and corals: there are compatibility issues with zooplankton as well.

Chad

Ok, I take that back that no one has observed cannibalism in copepods. Here are a number of articles and papers on the subject:

• http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/47/m047p045.pdf "Cannibalism in omnivorous calanoid copepods"
• https://www.newswise.com/articles/copepod-cannibalism
• https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10499-013-9747-1 "Egg cannibalism in Acartia tonsa: effects of stocking density, algal concentration, and egg availability"
• http://online.sfsu.edu/dsweb/Files/Wim PDFs/related references/Hada Uye 1991.pdf

Here is an excerpt from a paper on amphipods in Australia: https://web.archive.org/web/2009101...rwatch.org.au/pdfs/critters_5_crustaceans.pdf
"Diet and feeding
Most amphipods are detritivores or scavengers. Some have been known to eat their own
exoskeleton after a moult. They feed by grasping their prey with the modified front pair of
legs. Their diet includes algae, detritus, small crustaceans and small insects."

 

[leahfiish]

I definitely thought that I read somewhere about amphipods eating copepods.

I think after Christmas I'm going to start a Tigger pod culture in one of my spare 10g. This thread has been very helpful, thanks to both 40B Knasty and Reef Nutrition's comments!
I already have live Phytoplankton cultures going because I thought that would be necessary to reliably culture pods. But after seeing the results here maybe it would be more cost efficient to use something else, since I'm only culturing 1 species of phyto, I guess that is probably not an ideal diet for the Tigger pods.

 

[Reef Nutrition]

I definitely thought that I read somewhere about amphipods eating copepods.

I think after Christmas I'm going to start a Tigger pod culture in one of my spare 10g. This thread has been very helpful, thanks to both 40B Knasty and Reef Nutrition's comments!
I already have live Phytoplankton cultures going because I thought that would be necessary to reliably culture pods. But after seeing the results here maybe it would be more cost efficient to use something else, since I'm only culturing 1 species of phyto, I guess that is probably not an ideal diet for the Tigger pods.

If you're only culturing Nannocholorpsis spp, then, yes, that is not an ideal diet for them.

 

[Reef Nutrition]

I definitely thought that I read somewhere about amphipods eating copepods.

I think after Christmas I'm going to start a Tigger pod culture in one of my spare 10g. This thread has been very helpful, thanks to both 40B Knasty and Reef Nutrition's comments!
I already have live Phytoplankton cultures going because I thought that would be necessary to reliably culture pods. But after seeing the results here maybe it would be more cost efficient to use something else, since I'm only culturing 1 species of phyto, I guess that is probably not an ideal diet for the Tigger pods.

Here is another good paper on different species of amphipods and their gut analysis. Some of them had copepods in the gut.
http://orbi.ulg.ac.be/bitstream/2268/77199/1/Hydrobiologia.pdf

Chad

 

[40B Knasty]

I set up a 5g with some Chaeto and I'm starting to see the pod population take off. How often should I change the water? I haven't done it since I started roughly 3-4 weeks ago.

I do not 100% know the answer to that.
For me the tank was not cycled. I did a water change after the first 5 weeks. Now I do one every 2-3 weeks. I am not over thinking it. If it starts to smell and you will know it. You waited to long. Do a water change and hopefully you saved the colony. The thing is to not let the tank get to that point. Like in my video I feel as though I have a "safe bet" of the tank being fine after 2 weeks. I will not go longer than 3 weeks.