Tired of AC bricks? Try the DCBuddy

[Dennis Cartier]

If we don't use Apex, does this version offer support to toggle the outlets using CAN over the aquabus? Now I am assuming that the aquabus is CAN based upon your single comment about getting the pin order mixed up, so am I correct that the aquabus is CAN based?

Update: I managed to find a page with the pinout for the aquabus and as it turns out, it is not really a CAN bus, but just using a CAN transceiver to convert UART to CAN.

 

[Mark Gray]

Not to hijack the post but see what I did :

Dual PSU for 24V and 12V wired with a redundancy module that switches between each in case of failure,missing the PAB at that time.
Only the 2 MP40 are backup with a simple 12V battery as we really rarely have power outage, never more than a hour since the last 10 year
My tank consume less I assume from the much better efficiency of the PSU

I like it very nice I like the dual supply option.

 

[theatrus]

So some updates:

I've been using this the past few months without issue, but would like to add a smart battery backup option and charger capability, so it's a time for an update. In order to add battery capability, I do need to add port switching, and a little bit of smarts. I'm working through some options on the battery front (12V with a booster, 12V passthrough for things that take it, 24V battery, etc), but would target either lead acid or LiFePO4 packs which are sold as lead-acid-like replacements. Charger circuitry would be off the main board for flexibility, but be able to feed from the existing power supplies and act as a third input for backup power.

I know some folks up thread were asking "can I have one" - I'm a terrible supplier when I build things to the piece, but this is a unique enough product it may be worth doing a batch build. I'm going to put in the effort to quote a contract manufacturer on getting the newer revision built in a reasonable double digit quantity. Will keep everyone posted!

 

[t951]

Can I have one?



I went to your web page and could not find anything available. Do you still make the pico boards, or any other reef-pi creations?

I love the idea of good power supply that can remove the multitude of bricks, ideally if there was a way to have a redundant power supply to provide a load-balancing or fail-over node.

 

[theatrus]

Can I have one?



I went to your web page and could not find anything available. Do you still make the pico boards, or any other reef-pi creations?

I love the idea of good power supply that can remove the multitude of bricks, ideally if there was a way to have a redundant power supply to provide a load-balancing or fail-over node.

Web page is blank at the moment since I needed a product refresh / redo, and really wasn't keeping pace with the old way of doing business. Need to outsource that these days

I'm looking at doing a build, probably of a v2, which is a batch.

 

[t951]

Well, when your batches are ready, please update! I enjoy the DIY aspect, but I really like enabling good minds, hence the appreciation and support of your ideas and Ranjib's reef-pi. I do have a Neptune system, but I really appreciate and embrace the better solutions that are out there.

 

[braaap]

I'd be interested in a completed version.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

So some updates:

I've been using this the past few months without issue, but would like to add a smart battery backup option and charger capability, so it's a time for an update. In order to add battery capability, I do need to add port switching, and a little bit of smarts. I'm working through some options on the battery front (12V with a booster, 12V passthrough for things that take it, 24V battery, etc), but would target either lead acid or LiFePO4 packs which are sold as lead-acid-like replacements. Charger circuitry would be off the main board for flexibility, but be able to feed from the existing power supplies and act as a third input for backup power.

I know some folks up thread were asking "can I have one" - I'm a terrible supplier when I build things to the piece, but this is a unique enough product it may be worth doing a batch build. I'm going to put in the effort to quote a contract manufacturer on getting the newer revision built in a reasonable double digit quantity. Will keep everyone posted!

A battery back-up version LiFePo would be awesome. If it had an included float charger and/or switching to for a solar panel charger. I'm in!

 

[theatrus]

A battery back-up version LiFePo would be awesome. If it had an included float charger and/or switching to for a solar panel charger. I'm in!

The TI chip I’m looking at is bidirectional charging/discharging for LiFePO4 and can handle MPPT solar input. Looks promising.

 

[Naekuh]

The TI chip I’m looking at is bidirectional charging/discharging for LiFePO4 and can handle MPPT solar input. Looks promising.

If you ever do a group buy on this version im so willing to participate.

However i think the BMS on lithiums do not like to be floated like SLA, so the charge controller would need to shut off once battery registers 14v. and not float them like most UPS style systems do.

 

[bblumberg]

Count me in as well.

 

[theatrus]

Ok, so here is what I'm looking at for V2:

Main DC Buddy Base v2
- 2x 24V in
- Input current measurement per input port
- 4-8x 24V out, on/off control, same voltage as from input

12V Board
- Stack-able to the DC Buddy
- 12V, 5A, 4-8 ports, controllable on/off

5V Board
- Stackable to the DC Buddy
- 5V 5A, 4 ports USB, controllable on/off

DC Battery Buddy
- 24V in
- 12-36V battery port (targeting LiFePO4, 1-3 batteries in series)
- 12V-36V out (on battery or off, can select different output voltage when on battery, otherwise its pass through)

The bidirectional nature is all thanks to the highly integrated https://www.ti.com/product/BQ25756 - massively simplifies things for lots of flexibility.

Note:

The design has been modularized a bit. By default, you get a 24V only board. 12V and 5V and 36V boards simply stack on to the PCB and extend the case.

Original notes left below:
-------------------------------------

This leaves a few open questions:
The 36V question:

Most pumps are 24V (Vortechs, Gyres, DC skimmers, etc), except for some return pumps (Vectra, etc). The EcoTech pumps can run on 24V in backup mode, but others on the market may not. Making the base system run at 36V and providing 24V adds complexity/cost for the 1-2 36V pumps someone may have - is it worth it?

Option B is to run a boost converter from 24V to 36V for 1-2 ports, including in backup. But again, cost/complexity for something most people don't need, but less and could be made a modular option more easily. Personally, I have two Vectra pumps - one is a return one is a accessory closed loop to the garage.

The 5V question:
How many devices actually need a 5V supply? I have a handful, but not sure really how common this is. Maybe a stackable option makes sense like the 36V boost output.

The controllable ports:
The main intent is to be able to turn things off when you switch to battery, or cycle them to extend runtime (e.g., 10 min on, 10 min off, or similar). Is something like a programmable feed timer useful? Remote control?

Pricing? Too hard to tell yet, but this isn't a $50 box unless you just want a straight voltage passthrough. Each different voltage probably adds at least $20-30 end cost.

 

[Naekuh]

Is there a way we can customize it on our own like how the OG led drivers had a LDD module that you could snap install on per current required?

I rememberd the meanwell LDD had like 700mA, 1.5A, 350mA module, you litterally just snapped into the driver board to get the current you required.

It would be really cool if we had this option so if we needed more 24V we could just replace the module directly, or like you said if we did not even need a 5V that could be replaced with a module for more 12V or 24V.

Would probably save you the cost in the end as you could provide just the basics and people could expand out like options/features on cars as required.

 

[theatrus]

Is there a way we can customize it on our own like how the OG led drivers had a LDD module that you could snap install on per current required?

I rememberd the meanwell LDD had like 700mA, 1.5A, 350mA module, you litterally just snapped into the driver board to get the current you required.

It would be really cool if we had this option so if we needed more 24V we could just replace the module directly, or like you said if we did not even need a 5V that could be replaced with a module for more 12V or 24V.

Would probably save you the cost in the end as you could provide just the basics and people could expand out like options/features on cars as required.

After doing some layout, I went down the design road of "well, how complicated would modules be?". Especially relying on 3d printing to allow things to just stack together with a case. You pay a bit more in connectors, but there is some inherent flexibility.

 

[JCOLE]

So some updates:

I've been using this the past few months without issue, but would like to add a smart battery backup option and charger capability, so it's a time for an update. In order to add battery capability, I do need to add port switching, and a little bit of smarts. I'm working through some options on the battery front (12V with a booster, 12V passthrough for things that take it, 24V battery, etc), but would target either lead acid or LiFePO4 packs which are sold as lead-acid-like replacements. Charger circuitry would be off the main board for flexibility, but be able to feed from the existing power supplies and act as a third input for backup power.

I know some folks up thread were asking "can I have one" - I'm a terrible supplier when I build things to the piece, but this is a unique enough product it may be worth doing a batch build. I'm going to put in the effort to quote a contract manufacturer on getting the newer revision built in a reasonable double digit quantity. Will keep everyone posted!

Awesome build! Count me in as well if you're placing an order. I have wanted Neptune to come out with an accessory module just like this forever.

 

[theatrus]

A design snapshot for the base board, v2:

Notable differences:
24V only
8 ports (still MicroFit for 1Link), now controllable
Edge stacking connectors to extend more connector boards
Raspberry Pi Pico as the MCU
Current monitoring on the two inputs
New connector for the battery backup input to add communication pins (keeping the DIN4 and 2.1x5.5mm plugs, and 1Link)

One of the bigger changes is moving the output ports to be vertical to the board, meaning they plug in to the "top". While this board doesn't exploit it as much, the main reason is to make wiring somewhat easier, and allow for more dense connector layouts when you don't rely on the edges. This is similar to outlet strips for AC - power in the side, power out the top.

 

[t951]

I love it when a plan comes together!

-cue A-Team Music

I hope I haven't made a reference that marks me as old.....

 

[t951]

I am not an EE, so bear with me. Is there a "link option" that would allow two boards to connect, for either FO or LB? Basically, if one power path fails it could try another?

Just curious, could we also make this AI? jk! I appreciate the awesomeness of what this is.

 

[theatrus]

I am not an EE, so bear with me. Is there a "link option" that would allow two boards to connect, for either FO or LB? Basically, if one power path fails it could try another?

Just curious, could we also make this AI? jk! I appreciate the awesomeness of what this is.

The question of linking input boards is interesting. The basic premise is that it would work - its simply more diode-OR combining of power supplies (from two to four for example)

The problem is what happens when we start running into the output limits of a single supply, as this scheme doesn't do anything to inherently balance draw from each supply - its more organic, as the voltage drop rises on an adapter, another adapter would start filling that gap in an always online fashion. If one supply exceeds its output limit, it can cause a sudden cut of that input as the protection kicks in. As the load on the supply disappears however, it will start again, forming a bit of an oscaillation loop. With two supplies this is manageable, but it gets more and more unwieldy with more inputs if the power path is all shared, or even cause a cascade loop. There would need to be active input management and faulting, or just splitting the power inputs into different areas.

Realistically, you're looking about 200-240W (8-10A) for one adapter at 24V on the input connectors we have, which sets the upper limit for downstream power if you want redundancy of power supplies. With controllable outlets, we can load shed some ports if one adapter can't handle all the power, but this would need to be configured to not enter the oscillating state.

The design can scale out to bigger power input (with some suitable improvements in wiring input). For most flow and accessory pumps, strip lighting, ATO pumps, etc, this limit is probably "just fine", but its not suitable to also throw your main lighting on (which usually uses 48-56V adapters anyway).

The internal snap together bussing is currently designed around carrying 15A maximum between boards.

 

[t951]

Great response, thank you.

I would imagine that others do what I do, and keep the lights off the Battery-Backup Unit (BBU). If there is a power outage, common here in Florida, then I just want my pump, heater and powerheads going, everything else, lights included, are ok to run without for a while.

The failover would be limited to critical, and typically low voltage devices.

Anyway, appreciate you taking the time to think about it.

t.