To QT or not QT?

[sean rand]

A couple of months ago I started qting my fish and I realized I have lost more fish during the qt process than any ich or velvet attach I had in my tank. I understand the pros to qt but does it really out do the cons (figs not making it)
I have lost in the last 3 months the following fish
Potters angel
Bellus angel
Sohol tang
Royal gramma
Sailfin tang
Flagfin angel
5X chronos (prob uronema)

 

[Mariette]

That’s a tough one. I’ve lost fish in QT too. But I’ve also had ich and velvet invade my DT and wipe out most of my fish on 2 separate instances. Recently, I bought 3 new fish and, in QT/observation, found that they had flukes. 2 died before I knew what to even do about it and the other one’s in treatment barely hanging on. If that had gotten into DT, I don’t even want to consider what would have happened. Perhaps your quarantine tank/process could use a tweek?

 

[sean rand]

That’s a tough one. I’ve lost fish in QT too. But I’ve also had ich and velvet invade my DT and wipe out most of my fish on 2 separate instances. Recently, I bought 3 new fish and, in QT/observation, found that they had flukes. 2 died before I knew what to even do about it and the other one’s in treatment barely hanging on. If that had gotten into DT, I don’t even want to consider what would have happened. Perhaps your quarantine tank/process could use a tweek?

I'm doing 14 days copper @.50ppm and then 14 observe. Every other day I do a WC.
I'm so burned out of this hobby. :o

 

[drstardust]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/page-26#post-5823781

This is a very helpful thread on a great protocol for QT, if you haven't seen it already. I have used it with great success.

 

[Mariette]

I'm doing 14 days copper @.50ppm and then 14 observe. Every other day I do a WC.
I'm so burned out of this hobby. :eek:

I’ve done that too. And lost fish along the way. Based on the 0.5 ppm, I’m assuming Cupramine? Ppl on here are raving about a Hanna tester but I’ve been using a crappy colour chart one from Seachem. Can’t get my hands on the Hanna one. Apparently, it allows clearer readings and results in less deaths. Also, I hear chelated copper is easier/gentler than Cupramine. I dunno.

And, I hate to break it to you, but I also hear fish can show no symptoms for 30 days after copper once my fish are done w copper, I’m going w a 30 day observation to be sure. Also saw a few ppl on here are say it’s best to get fish out of treatment tank and into fresh qt once 14 day treatment is done as opposed to water changes and carbon to remove copper.

I don’t do any water changes during the 14 days of copper. Should I?!? Where’d you hear that? Ugh!!! As if it isn’t horrible enough lol

 

[ShaunRobinson]

If you had ever had a disease outbreak in your tank you wouldn’t be asking the question. The pros definitely outweigh the cons. That said you have lost an unreasonable amount of fish doing quarantine so I would look into your quarantine process and see what you can do to make it better.

 

[Mariette]

If you had ever had a disease outbreak in your tank you wouldn’t be asking the question. The pros definitely outweigh the cons. That said you have lost an unreasonable amount of fish doing quarantine so I would look into your quarantine process and see what you can do to make it better.

Ditto

 

[Lasse]

If you had ever had a disease outbreak in your tank you wouldn’t be asking the question. The pros definitely outweigh the cons. That said you have lost an unreasonable amount of fish doing quarantine so I would look into your quarantine process and see what you can do to make it better.

Ditto

But this rise another question - if you never ever had done a prophylactic treatment, seldom even a observation QT and never ever have had a wipe out in your tank caused by pathogen microorganisms – what should you think about the necessary of the common QT protocol that is recommended for everyone?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[laverda]

But this rise another question - if you never ever had done a prophylactic treatment, seldom even a observation QT and never ever have had a wipe out in your tank caused by pathogen microorganisms – what should you think about the necessary of the common QT protocol that is recommended for everyone?

Sincerely Lasse

Then Your very lucky!

 

[Lasse]

Yea - may been that or it is something else - the prophylactic protocol could be wrong or kill more fish than other methods.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[homer1475]

But this rise another question - if you never ever had done a prophylactic treatment, seldom even a observation QT and never ever have had a wipe out in your tank caused by pathogen microorganisms – what should you think about the necessary of the common QT protocol that is recommended for everyone?

Sincerely Lasse

Extremely lucky is what you call it.

I started out QTing everything, never had an issue. Got cavalier about QT and dumped in some CUC. Apparently one of the snails must have had some ich on its shell because before I could get a QT setup(I was done buying fish so QT got taken down), I lost all 10 fish to ich. Well didnt loose all right away, but the loss of a few large fish started a downward spiral.

I now at the very least do a FW dip, and TTM. I do not like copper, and will never use it regardless. I have issues with nearly killing an animal to try and save it. There are other meds besides copper. I have lost a few during TTM, but better in a separate tank then in my display where they could have killed off all the fish like before.

 

[ShaunRobinson]

But this rise another question - if you never ever had done a prophylactic treatment, seldom even a observation QT and never ever have had a wipe out in your tank caused by pathogen microorganisms – what should you think about the necessary of the common QT protocol that is recommended for everyone?

Sincerely Lasse

A fair point and there are many many experienced reefkeepers that have got away with not doing any quarantine and it has worked for them but in my opinion you are always running a risk. I guess at the end of the day it’s how much you value your stock that you are adding to and whether you are prepared to take the risk. Trust in your Lfs is a huge advantage when choosing not to quarantine.

I have never used copper in any of my quarantines, I’m sure it is straightforward enough but I know it’s not great for the fish and the need for constant monitoring of the therapeutic levels is not something I’ve ever been prepared to do. Over in the UK the TTM isn’t common either and ineffective on Velvet. CP is my prophylactic medication of choice and although I haven’t put a massive amount of fish through I’ve only lost one to loss of appetite. It works for me as it is easy to administer and (kind of) forget about but I realise it’s not for everyone.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

A couple of months ago I started qting my fish and I realized I have lost more fish during the qt process than any ich or velvet attach I had in my tank. I understand the pros to qt but does it really out do the cons (figs not making it)
I have lost in the last 3 months the following fish
Potters angel
Bellus angel
Sohol tang
Royal gramma
Sailfin tang
Flagfin angel
5X chronos (prob uronema)

Your last group of fish you said were 5 Chromis that died from Uronema correct? Had you not QT’ed them then you would quite possibly be bleaching and restarting your DT. I know it’s hard and discouraging but don’t give up.

 

[ShaunRobinson]

Your last group of fish you said were 5 Chromis that died from Uronema correct? Had you not QT’ed them then you would quite possibly be bleaching and restarting your DT. I know it’s hard and discouraging but don’t give up.

Can’t argue with this logic!

 

[dugthefish]

I never liked the idea of meditating fish that aren't sick. Maybe back off the copper and just QT/observe?

 

[Mariette]

But this rise another question - if you never ever had done a prophylactic treatment, seldom even a observation QT and never ever have had a wipe out in your tank caused by pathogen microorganisms – what should you think about the necessary of the common QT protocol that is recommended for everyone?

Sincerely Lasse

I hear ya. Got lucky af first too. I was fully stocked except for 1 fish. A long nose hawk. Not a single illness since then. Then, with the addition of what was supposed to be my final fish, disaster. I’m not sure prophylactic treatment is necessarily the answer, but at least an observational qt?

If I was you, I’d sanitize my qt and related equipment, and try again.

 

[Lasse]

Extremely lucky is what you call it.

Yea - and the luck has been since 1972 when I started with fresh water. Since 2001 have I run saltwater both at job and private. I have been with importing > 20 000 fishes (SW) since 2001 - never ever use prothylactic treatment at all.

I started out QTing everything, never had an issue. Got cavalier about QT and dumped in some CUC. Apparently one of the snails must have had some ich on its shell because before I could get a QT setup(I was done buying fish so QT got taken down), I lost all 10 fish to ich. Well didnt loose all right away, but the loss of a few large fish started a downward spiral.

Any prove that the ich not was dormant in your aquaria and some stress started it ? I am a big fan of CUC - often put in new species in my aquaria - never ever have had ich in the aquaria

I now at the very least do a FW dip, and TTM. I do not like copper, and will never use it regardless. I have issues with nearly killing an animal to try and save it. There are other meds besides copper. I have lost a few during TTM, but better in a separate tank then in my display where they could have killed off all the fish like before.

With prophylactic treatment I mean use of chemicals in order to treat just in the case of. I have no problem with observation QT and TTM - but a stress free environment is important for me.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

A fair point and there are many many experienced reefkeepers that have got away with not doing any quarantine and it has worked for them but in my opinion you are always running a risk. I guess at the end of the day it’s how much you value your stock that you are adding to and whether you are prepared to take the risk. Trust in your Lfs is a huge advantage when choosing not to quarantine.

IMO - make a chemical prophylactic treatment is taken a risk too. I do as I do because I judge the risk for disaster in my mature aquaria is lesser than any other method.

I use my fuge for acclimation of my newcomers. They goes there for 1 – 4 weeks alone. The advantages is that is a stress free environment, lot of pods, lot of hiding places and they get the introduction of my macrofauna in a very calm way. They get the same smell as my old fishes – this lead to a very soft introducing in the DT. I have fish that love to bully other fish if they are newcomers – since I start with my fuge tactic he/she never bully the newcomers.

CP is not a kind substance either - can give damage that you will see much later on. IMO – if you use QT – use it just as an observation tool. Treat when needed. One important thing 8IMO) if you use QT. One to two weeks before the introduction into your DT – do WC with water from the DT – often. You will achieve two things - the newcomers get a slow vaccination of your microfauna and get the same smell.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[ShaunRobinson]

IMO - make a chemical prophylactic treatment is taken a risk too. I do as I do because I judge the risk for disaster in my mature aquaria is lesser than any other method.

I use my fuge for acclimation of my newcomers. They goes there for 1 – 4 weeks alone. The advantages is that is a stress free environment, lot of pods, lot of hiding places and they get the introduction of my macrofauna in a very calm way. They get the same smell as my old fishes – this lead to a very soft introducing in the DT. I have fish that love to bully other fish if they are newcomers – since I start with my fuge tactic he/she never bully the newcomers.

CP is not a kind substance either - can give damage that you will see much later on. IMO – if you use QT – use it just as an observation tool. Treat when needed. One important thing 8IMO) if you use QT. One to two weeks before the introduction into your DT – do WC with water from the DT – often. You will achieve two things - the newcomers get a slow vaccination of your microfauna and get the same smell.

Sincerely Lasse

Thank you for your thoughts and experiences Lasse. It’s always good to see the other side of the coin too and proof that what works for one person may not always work for another.

So in your opinion and purely hypothetically would you use the same process for a commonly thought of riskier fish into your display such as a Powder Blue or Achilles tang?

 

[ShaunRobinson]

CP is not a kind substance either - can give damage that you will see much later on.

Sincerely Lasse

I am unaware of potential risks to fishes health from using CP Lasse although I’m sure any foreign substance introduced to a fish is potentially hazardous. Is there any reading on the topic you know of that I could study?

Many thanks,

Shaun.