Topping off with alkaline water.....

[AZDesertRat]

I would be interested in this also. The idea of alkaline water has been discussed in the drinking water industry for years and has been dismissed as bunk for the most part but who knows it may have an application here.
"Ionized" and alkaline water: snake oil on tap

Water pseudoscience and quackery

The BunkHouse: Water pseudoscience gallery

There are dozens of sites such as the one above so it pays to look at it from all angles before diving in.

 

[CJO]

It's only plastic and stainless in the alkaline cartridge? What's increasing the alkalinity of the water? On the link above they have a page that shows a cutaway of the cartridge that shows 10 stages, one with copper, and a couple with some ceramics.

That's why I was asking

CJ

 

[Troylee]

Found a break down of the cartridge I have... Don't see copper in it maybe I'm missing it...
If you got a chance russell take a look and see if you see any issues... It's all ceramic media..
BiOCERA / Filtration media


*** → NSF Test passed, High grade Ceramic Balls

***1. NSF safety Qualified Ceramic balls. The word first
***2. No detection of heavy metals - Hg, Pb, As, Cr, Cd
***3. Filtration media application which reduces Carcinogen(THM,Chloroform)
***4. special functional elements added ceramic balls which are necessary for
***** anti- cancer & duabetes.
***5. Health Media application of Mg, Ca that makes ionized Alkaline Reduction Water
***6. BIOCERA holds the Original patents, original technology and Intellectual Property ***** right of manufacturing process, equipment and composition of ceramic balls.
****

PRODUCT FEATURE
Biocera RC ball (BRC) Feature
- Diminution of Bad Smell
**(organic matter, chlorine, impurities)
- Remove Residual Chlorine Perfectly
- For Softener - ORP decreasing
- elute calciums

Packaging - 20Kg/ basket
Main Ingredients - CaSO₃
T Y P E - White / 3mm
Biocera AG ball (BAG) Feature - Safety for drinking water
**(Manufactured with material to pass
**The safety test by FDA)
- Antibacterial & Disinfection
**(The efficacy is 99% over)
- Prevent heavy metal to be harmful
**to human body
- Remove bad smell in water
Packaging - 25㎏/basket
Main Ingreduents - Zeolite, Silver
T Y P E - White / 3, 5mm
Biocera IP Ball (BIP)

Feature - Emit a lot of Negative ion for human *health
- Emit for infraredrays
Packaging - 25㎏/basket
Main Ingreduents - ZrO2, SiO2
T Y P E - White 3/5/8mm
Biocera SP ball (BSP) Feature
- Contain above 10 kinds of Minerals
- Activation of Animal & Plant Metabolism by emitting of Far Infrared Rays
Packaging - 25㎏/basket
Main Ingreduents - Quartz, Hematite
T Y P E - Red / 3, 5, 8mm
Biocera CA ball (BCA) Feature
- Make Alkaline water
- Elute of Minerals
- pH increase
Packaging - 25㎏/basket
Main Ingreduents - CaO, MgO
T Y P E - White / 3, 5mm
Biocera TO ball (BTO) Feature
- Increase minerals
- Make small water molecule by the wave of weak electricity
- Maximize the synergy effect to the emission of far infrared rays & Negative ion
Packaging - 25㎏/basket
Main Ingreduents - special Mineral **related to immunity
T Y P E - Brown / 3, 5, 8mm
Biocera PW ball (BPW) Feature - Increase the absorption of water
**to be able to help nourishment
**absorption & waste matters discharge
- Natural Healing Ability & Increase **Immunity
Packaging - 25㎏/basket
Main Ingreduents - Hematite, Special Mineral related to **metabdism
T Y P E - D.Brown / 3, 5mm
Biocera AO Pyramid bag (BAO) Feature
- Anti-Oxidant
- Hydrogen generate(free fadical remove)
- pH↑ Alkaline
- NMR↓ water caluster decrease

Packaging - 2000 bags/ Box
Main Ingreduents - MgO, CaO, SiO2
T Y P E - Tea Bag / 6.5×9㎝
Biocera SH ball (BSH)

Feature - Hardness decrease
- Anti scale
- Heavy Metal Remove
Packaging - 25㎏/basket
Main Ingreduents - MgO, CaO, SiO2
T Y P E - Brown / 1, 1.5mm
Biocera MN ball (BMN) Feature - Magnetite
- Anti rust function by water molecular Activate
Packaging - 25㎏/basket
Main Ingreduents - Al2O3 Fe2O3 MgO CaO Na2O K2O etc.
T Y P E - Brown / 8mm±0.5

 

[AZDesertRat]

Quackery at its best.
Research ANSI/NSF 42 standards and you find it is for ASTHETICS only, meaning taste and odor removal not any health effects.
You will also find when you research BioCera in the NSF database it is nowhere to be found, meaning it has never been tested by ANSI/NSF or has never passed their testing protocol.
NSF International : Drinking Water Treatment Units : Standards

These units pop up by the hundreds every year and they make their claims sound realistic until you do a little research. Its amazing what you can sell over the internet. This is why in the US we have truth in advertising laws to protect the public.

 

[Troylee]

Not worried about the health benefits haha... I just wanna see if I can use it my tank.... Myself and every one of my kids drink tap water the tank gets the good stuff... Isn't that sad lol

 

[AZDesertRat]

I don't think you will see any benefit for your tank either, it really doesn't do anything. Lots of fancy words for some ceramic beads.

 

[Troylee]

Having a high ph level 7 to 11 coming from that cartridge I can adjust my tank accordingly to solve the low ph levels... I top off with 5 gal a day due to evap cooling... I'm thinking a buffered ph level on my rodi top off might help... Relatively speaking...:squigglemouth:

 

[AZDesertRat]

Are you running RO/DI through this cartridge or tap water?
Since you cannot accurately measure the pH of ultrapure water, I'm not sure what you are seeing for a pH is correct unless you are actually adding a buffering solution back to the RO/DI. Passing ultrapure water through some inert beads certainly isn't going to do anything unless it is consuming or eating the beads and putting them into solution.

 

[Russellaqua]

A few things:

The pH of pure water is 7, as it contains equal amounts of H+ and OH- ions.

I think largely what you're trying to do is increase pH.

The first stage contains calcium sulfate. This is probably a man-made form of the natural mineral anhydrite, which is the non-water-bearing (anhydrous) form of gypsum. This will dissolve readily in pure water and increase the pH. When evaporating seawater, gypsum only precipitates after most of the water is gone, and then you have to dry the gypsum further to produce anhydrite. This happens naturally in places like the Persian Gulf sabkha in Saudi Arabia.

The second stage contains zeolites and silver. Zeolites are complex silicate minerals often used for their ability to absorb odors. Not 100% sure but my guess is that this stage neither hurts nor helps you.

The next two stages contain forms of quartz (the clear mineral found in most beach sands in the US), hematite (iron oxide, i.e. rust), and zirconium dioxide. Zirconium dioxide is a very common ceramic, but we usually encounter it as cubic zirconia, the diamond knock-off. The quartz and zirconium dioxide are harmless. The hematite contains a lot of iron, and iron has been shown to promote algal blooms in the ocean where large amounts of iron-rich dust have blown from land into the sea. Hematite is not particularly soluble under normal pH conditions, but it's something to keep in mind.

The following stages all contain various metal oxides. The most important are the CaO and MgO. This is what is going to raise your pH and alkalinity. One of the other stages also contains magnetite. This is related to hematite, and contains a large amount of iron.

These are only the "main" ingredients per stage. There may be something binding these ingredients together that may harm your tank as well.

 

[VegasRick]

I wouldn't even cosider using it. On top of what was just posted by Russelaquaria, what if it is adding some alk that is not usuable by corals? You could end up with alk in your target range with little if any that can actually be used by your corals. You want total control of what you are putting into your system. If you want a higher ph in your top off then figure out your usage and use the alk part of the 2 part and add it to your top off.

 

[Troylee]

Ok okay... I guess it's a no go then.... I wanted to play guinea pig haha...

 

[Jeff Cole]

If the alkalinity cartridge is last after the di does it affect your tds?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If the alkalinity cartridge is last after the di does it affect your tds?

Sorry I was not here at the time. Some of these claims are beyond stupid.

This product is not useful. Top off water made by RO/DI is never a cause of low pH in a reef tank, and doesn't contribute to it, even if its pH is below 8.

One of the few things such a product might actually do is raise pH in the water a bit by dissolving a little bit of calcium or magnesium carbonate into the water. If you want to do that, just add some calcium carbonate sand to your top off water.

I have discussed previously how little can actually dissolve:

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Calcium Carbonate As A Supplement ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2002/chem.htm

"From this calculation, we find that the solution at equilibrium contains about 6 ppm calcium and 0.3 meq/L alkalinity, and results in a pH of 10.0. If we correct this result for aragonite instead of calcite (which is slightly more soluble), we get about 10 ppm calcium and 0.5 meq/L alkalinity, with a pH of just over 10 (which is what about what I got when I initially dissolved both AragaMIGHT and Southdown aragonite sand in RO/DI water). For comparison, full strength limewater contains about 820 ppm calcium and 41 meq/L alkalinity."

 

[J_C_Reef]

Well the last 2 months "my new job" building water purification systems and alkaline machines has got me thinking.....
I have learned more than I ever want to know about water haha.... Anyways these vending machines I build now are alkaline water the next big thing... I can adjust the ph level from 7 to 11 with a simple turn of a valve... All they are is a basic ro unit with a alkaline cartridge at the end that water passes through and raises the ph for healthier, tastier water.... Anyways I'm thinking about adding one of these alk cartridges to my rodi unit and having buffered water for top off.... I evap a lot of water so I think this could help tremendously with low ph problems and not using powdered buffers.... I top off with kalk as it is... Any thoughts????

You know I've actually been doing that for the past month or so. I have a Waterbox AIO 10 gallon that's in my bedroom. I been testing the water weekly and started getting a PH reading of 7.6-7.7 for the past 2 months,I heard of ways to raise it but I had the idea of buying alkaline water from a supermarket and filling my ATO. My PH after doing this for a month has gone up to 7.9 so is my alkalinity but not by a lot . My corals look better and healthier but I would still have to see how the tank does in the long run

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You know I've actually been doing that for the past month or so. I have a Waterbox AIO 10 gallon that's in my bedroom. I been testing the water weekly and started getting a PH reading of 7.6-7.7 for the past 2 months,I heard of ways to raise it but I had the idea of buying alkaline water from a supermarket and filling my ATO. My PH after doing this for a month has gone up to 7.9 so is my alkalinity but not by a lot . My corals look better and healthier but I would still have to see how the tank does in the long run

What exactly did you buy? This does not seem a good plan to me, relative to the normal ways of supplying alkalinity to a reef tank.

 

[Troylee]

Man this is a old thread.. 12 years ago haha… I never did end up trying this..

 

[J_C_Reef]

What exactly did you buy? This does not seem a good plan to me, relative to the normal ways of supplying alkalinity to a reef tank.

It's a Stater Bros brand. Alkaline water with a 9.5 Ph,I figured since my Ph was so low and all my corals were not opening;that this could help and so far it has,my corals are opening and the Ph went up. Again in new to the hobby .

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It's a Stater Bros brand. Alkaline water with a 9.5 Ph,I figured since my Ph was so low and all my corals were not opening;that this could help and so far it has,my corals are opening and the Ph went up. Again in new to the hobby .

From their web site:
Ingredients
Purified Water, Potassium Hydroxide, Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Chloride.

https://shop.staterbros.com/shop/product/stater-bros-markets-alkaline-water-p-h-9-5/2617985

The concern is that you will be potentially driving up potassium with every dose.

A better (and likely cheaper) bet with an equally strong effect on pH is to use sodium hydroxide, which is part of some supplements, as well as my very high pH two part recipes:

Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley. I'm using this recipe with significantly more concentrated NaOH solution. I have the NaOH solution stored in a Brute trash can which is then placed in a larger trash can that's used as a secondary container. I deliver the NaOH solution to my aquarium using a Neptune DOS...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[J_C_Reef]

From their web site:
Ingredients
Purified Water, Potassium Hydroxide, Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Chloride.

https://shop.staterbros.com/shop/product/stater-bros-markets-alkaline-water-p-h-9-5/2617985

The concern is that you will be potentially driving up potassium with every dose.

A better (and likely cheaper) bet with an equally strong effect on pH is to use sodium hydroxide, which is part of some supplements, as well as my very high pH two part recipes:

Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley. I'm using this recipe with significantly more concentrated NaOH solution. I have the NaOH solution stored in a Brute trash can which is then placed in a larger trash can that's used as a secondary container. I deliver the NaOH solution to my aquarium using a Neptune DOS...

www.reef2reef.com

Ooohhh!!!! I'll definitely try it out,thank you so much!!!