Treating Ammonia Burns/Poisoning - Bandit Angel

[Elgringodiablo]

So, 3 weeks into QTing my Bandit Angel, I noticed he wasn't eating much and hiding the other day. Yesterday I found him laying on his side breathing heavily.

I was doing 25% water changes twice a week, but likely overfed and resulted in some ammonia (about 0.2 according to the red sea test). I removed him from that QT and put him in my big display, which has a stronger biofilter and larger water volume, but there is copper in that system being removed (currently below 0.5 chelated).

I did a 30 minute methylene blue bath (0.25ml in 0.5 gallons) yesterday. He's still laying on his side breathing heavily, fins look a little ragged and has a few red spots.

Not sure what to do at this point. Thinking about doing a 90 minute bath in acriflavine (ruby reef rally) or another 30 minute methylene blue bath.

Also not sure if I should do a big water change in my QT (10 gallon) and put him back in there to get him out of the copper, or just leave him in my big system as the Cu levels continue to decrease. Super paranoid about having ammonia appear in the QT again. I use the seachem badges, but I guess they aren't accurate enough to warn me of low levels and big angels are very sensitive. Really kicking myself for not catching this sooner. Really hope I didn't do any irreversible damage.

 

[Humblefish]

Are the red spots primarily near his gills or in other areas? Could be a bacterial infection. Using NFG would be ideal here because it contains 2 ABX + MB in one medication: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

So, you should be covered either way.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Are the red spots primarily near his gills or in other areas? Could be a bacterial infection. Using NFG would be ideal here because it contains 2 ABX + MB in one medication: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

So, you should be covered either way.

In other areas, developed pretty quickly. Anus, side, ragged fins and heavy breathing too. My hopes are pretty low, but I need to do everything I can to save this fish. I can't imagine a fish going down this quickly over a bacterial infection.

I've got him in a Ruby Reef Rally bath for the next 90 minutes, then I think I will put him back in QT and treat with Furan-2 and maybe Methylene Blue in the actual QT. Other than staining, is there any big reason not to use it in tank instead of as a dip/bath?

Going to step up my water change regimen to every other day, maybe as much as 50%. No feeding until he is swimming again, and even then, going to seriously minimize it.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

It's possible that it's a gram negative bacterial infection.... Will in QT treatment of Methylene Blue nuke my bio filter and make Ammonia a serious risk?

 

[Elgringodiablo]

The more I think about it, the more it sounds like a gnarly bacterial infection. My QT Water was dirty, but ammonia seemed too low to cause this. 0.2 on Red Sea is like 0.02 toxic. Hopefully Furan + Methylene saves him...

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Well... I’m too late... wish I’d ID’d the issue sooner....

 

[Elgringodiablo]

I guess the big question now is: How do I prevent this from happening in the future? More water changes? Less feeding? Bigger QT? Dips? Prophylactic antibiotics?

 

[Humblefish]

When you see signs of a possible gram negative infection, you want to administer the Rally bath and then into QT w/antibiotics ASAP. IME; a gram negative infection can kill faster than velvet.

To answer your other question, Methylene blue can destroy nitrifying bacteria so it's best not used in a cycled QT.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

When you see signs of a possible gram negative infection, you want to administer the Rally bath and then into QT w/antibiotics ASAP. IME; a gram negative infection can kill faster than velvet.

To answer your other question, Methylene blue can destroy nitrifying bacteria so it's best not used in a cycled QT.

Sorry for your loss.

Yeah... that was fast... way faster than velvet. I thought it must have been ammonia to have him go down that fast, but in hindsight gram negative bacteria makes more sense. Guess I need to keep the QT cleaner... talk about a pricey mistake.

Man....

 

[Mark 750]

I guess the big question now is: How do I prevent this from happening in the future? More water changes? Less feeding? Bigger QT? Dips? Prophylactic antibiotics?

Sorry to see a dead bandit, i have 2 right now, 1 juv and 1 adult in separate tanks. I am actually treating the adult right now for a bacterial infection. I did 4 rounds of furan 2 and on the 2nd round I added kanaplex. Those are done and now I am just feeding kana in the food. Diagnosing and treating fish effectively is very hard and i have suffered several losses before I even began to know what I was doing. The red rash on the yellow tang is a bacterial infection. Good luck

 

[NoWaiAma]

Sorry for your loss bud. I only recently discovered and read up on a lot of stuff like this. Best of luck moving forward. You did your best

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Super bummed... Had no idea it was bacterial until it was way too late. Loss of appetite and listlessness were the only symptoms he exhibited before he was on the bottom breathing heavily. Didn't show redness or fin rot until after I realized something was really wrong. Next time, if any doubt at all, I will dip in acriflavine and treat with Furan-2.

Aside from trying to keep my QT water pristine and the fish well fed, I am not sure what else can be done to avoid this. I've lost at least a dozen of fish to velvet and this was way more drastic.