Trident FAQ

[MnFish1]

Exactly. Thus the need for Trident. I know a lot of sps folks that manually test twice a day. Not uncommon. When you have several grand of sensitive sps on the line alk swings are not an option.

Just because people 'do something' doesn't mean its necessary. People also have color-coded PVC piping (which looks nice) but its not 'necessary'. Thats why I asked the question - to those who test alkalinity 1 or 2 times/day - how many times do they actually need to adjust something based on the values? IMHO - this constant testing/tweaking/automation causes more problems than it solves. Again its just my opinion. But I find that the less I test and the more I focus on how the tank looks, the better everything does.

 

[CMO]

Just because people 'do something' doesn't mean its necessary. People also have color-coded PVC piping (which looks nice) but its not 'necessary'. Thats why I asked the question - to those who test alkalinity 1 or 2 times/day - how many times do they actually need to adjust something based on the values? IMHO - this constant testing/tweaking/automation causes more problems than it solves. Again its just my opinion. But I find that the less I test and the more I focus on how the tank looks, the better everything does.

I can assure you if i hadn't been testing daily I would have lost some very high value SPS by now. Doing what I'm doing I have not lost a single frag in a new tank over the first year which as we all know is not easy for sps, let alone sensitive sps. While my alk is relatively constant most of the time (and wouldn't merit daily testing) there are certain days where things shift rapidly and that cannot be predicted. The only way to catch these odd days where alk demands shift rapidly is to test regularly. I've seen my tank swing nearly 1 dkh on multiple occasions out of nowhere. Get some vivid signature tenuis or the like at $350 a piece and I'm sure you'd understand why some test daily or multiple times per day (especially once you have colony size pieces like this - not that mine are anywhere near that yet). While not all, some sps like these are sensitive and cannot handle alk swings. My Adventador is just begging to die from an alk swing. ;)

But that's just my tank and I agree that for many there is no need to test daily.

 

[MnFish1]

I've seen my tank swing nearly 1 dkh on multiple occasions out of nowhere. Get some vivid signature tenuis or the like at $350 a piece and I'm sure you'd understand why some test daily or multiple times per day (especially once you have colony size pieces like this - not that mine are anywhere near that yet). While not all, some sps like these are sensitive and cannot handle alk swings. My Adventador is just begging to die from an alk swing. ;)

I agree with what you say - the think I dont understand is that testing doesnt itself do anything to the alk. What I mean is this - say the alk swings 1 dkh in a day = the damage if any has already happened by the time you do the test. - is it better to rapidly change it back - or to let it very gradually go back to baseline. If you have an alk controller - thats a different story - i.e. a process by which the alk is monitored - and adjusted automatically within a narrow range.

Secondly - there is a variation in alk at different times during the day 'naturally'. So - unless you're testing at the same time each day - the results may not mean as much. In any case - there is no right or wrong way to do something:)

 

[MnFish1]

I can assure you if i hadn't been testing daily I would have lost some very high value SPS by now. Doing what I'm doing I have not lost a single frag in a new tank over the first year which as we all know is not easy for sps, let alone sensitive sps. While my alk is relatively constant most of the time (and wouldn't merit daily testing) there are certain days where things shift rapidly and that cannot be predicted. The only way to catch these odd days where alk demands shift rapidly is to test regularly. I've seen my tank swing nearly 1 dkh on multiple occasions out of nowhere. Get some vivid signature tenuis or the like at $350 a piece and I'm sure you'd understand why some test daily or multiple times per day (especially once you have colony size pieces like this - not that mine are anywhere near that yet). While not all, some sps like these are sensitive and cannot handle alk swings. My Adventador is just begging to die from an alk swing. ;)

But that's just my tank and I agree that for many there is no need to test daily.

PS - What is different about your tank than those who don't need to test daily? Im not aware (generally) - that the price of a coral relates to its susceptibility to alk swings. again - this is not meant to criticize - but to gain knowledge.

 

[CMO]

I agree with what you say - the think I dont understand is that testing doesnt itself do anything to the alk. What I mean is this - say the alk swings 1 dkh in a day = the damage if any has already happened by the time you do the test. - is it better to rapidly change it back - or to let it very gradually go back to baseline. If you have an alk controller - thats a different story - i.e. a process by which the alk is monitored - and adjusted automatically within a narrow range.

Secondly - there is a variation in alk at different times during the day 'naturally'. So - unless you're testing at the same time each day - the results may not mean as much. In any case - there is no right or wrong way to do something:)

So just imagine a situation where you had a 1 dkh swing in 24 hours but were doing bi-weekly or weekly testing. While 1 dkh shift in 24 hours is a lot and will stress sensitive corals you can typically come back from that if continued decline is stopped quickly. To stop alk from declining further that requires a higher dose, let alone start increase it. So yes, while rapidly correcting is no good either, you at least need to put a floor in quick in these situations with a higher alk dose before 1 dkh become 2 and so on. Running at 8 dkh I don't have a ton of room for things to decline quickly.

However, with something like the trident testing 4x per day we'll be able to catch these swings before they get anywhere near swings of the 1 dkh magnitude.

 

[MnFish1]

So just imagine a situation where you had a 1 dkh swing in 24 hours but were doing bi-weekly or weekly testing. While 1 dkh shift in 24 hours is a lot and will stress sensitive corals you can typically come back from that if continued decline if stopped quickly. To stop alk from declining further that requires a higher dose, let alone start increase it. So yes, while rapidly correcting is no good either, you at least need to put a floor in quick in these situations with a higher alk dose before 1 dkh become 2 and so on. Running at 8 dkh I don't have a ton of room for things to decline quickly.

However, with something like the trident testing 4x per day we'll be able to catch these swings before they get anywhere near swings of the 1 dkh magnitude.

Assuming you properly maintain your trident. Assuming the trident does not give erroneous results. assuming something else doesnt happen. For Alk to swing 1 dkh in a 24 hour period (assuming no error in testing0 means something else has changed - as compared to 'coral growth'. I think its fine to test as you are - I just dont think the majority of tests result in a meaningful change in the tank.

 

[CMO]

PS - What is different about your tank than those who don't need to test daily? Im not aware (generally) - that the price of a coral relates to its susceptibility to alk swings. again - this is not meant to criticize - but to gain knowledge.

That I can't tell you, I just know my tank. And my tank does have alk swings form time to time. However, my tank is extremely stable in all parameters so I have to imagine others experience similar swings at times. Thus the many that test like I do and the starting alk test interval of 4x per day with the Trident.

Just as an example, on December 5 my total core 7 dose was 32 ml. Today my tank takes 48 ml so you can see things at least in my tank happen pretty fast at times. I have a lot of SPS frags that were all added at different times over the last year and settling in at different rates would be my guess.

Today


While the comment on the expensive frags was somewhat a joke, I do think there is some truth to it. Sensitive corals generally fetch a higher price since they're hard and or slow to grow (newer to captivity being a big reason for alk sensitivity in some cases). My vivid signature tenuis frags are without a doubt the most sensitive corals I have and carried the highest price.

 

[roberthu526]

So just imagine a situation where you had a 1 dkh swing in 24 hours but were doing bi-weekly or weekly testing. While 1 dkh shift in 24 hours is a lot and will stress sensitive corals you can typically come back from that if continued decline if stopped quickly. To stop alk from declining further that requires a higher dose, let alone start increase it. So yes, while rapidly correcting is no good either, you at least need to put a floor in quick in these situations with a higher alk dose before 1 dkh become 2 and so on. Running at 8 dkh I don't have a ton of room for things to decline quickly.

However, with something like the trident testing 4x per day we'll be able to catch these swings before they get anywhere near swings of the 1 dkh magnitude.

If your tank has a 1 dkh swing daily, you probably have something else to worry about. I used to test daily when the tank is first setup. But after a month I started to get a sense of how the tank does and what I should expect. Everything goes back to stability and all the testing we do are for that one purpose. If your tank has been running for a year or longer and you still cant reasonably predict what value you will get before you test then something else is going on. I have never seen a mature tank that REQUIRES daily water testing. Is it beneficial? Sure. Is it necessary? No.

 

[TheHarold]

LOL @the people saying they need to test daily. What’s the point of dosing if you can’t keep your Alk stable

 

[CMO]

Assuming you properly maintain your trident. Assuming the trident does not give erroneous results. assuming something else doesnt happen. For Alk to swing 1 dkh in a 24 hour period (assuming no error in testing0 means something else has changed - as compared to 'coral growth'. I think its fine to test as you are - I just dont think the majority of tests result in a meaningful change in the tank.

I'd generally agree that something of the magnitude of 1 dkh is caused by something other than coral growth (GFO, dosing, PH change, etc.). But, these things happen and often have a delayed impact on alk. When I start up nitrate dosing for example once it reaches my lower limit , the effect's of the nitrate dosing are delayed. So how do I know when the additional alk consumption spurred by NO3 dosing kicks in without daily testing? I have enough things fluctuating at this point in my tank that daily testing is still required. But yes the swings are getting much smaller as my tank matures and I haven't had anything more than .5 dkh in quite a while. My daily change is typically in the .1-.2 range.

 

[roberthu526]

Thanks - the reason I asked - is that I've thought about buying (one) of the various brands - but I keep thinking - what am I really gaining? Is there really a benefit to keeping the alk at x.0 vs x.3... Then I think about all of the potential problems using another piece of equipment to potentially fail. Then I realize that my tank does fine checking alk every 2 weeks - and I haven't adjusted anything for 6 months... But - the idea is still cool - so still debating the purchase

To me the daily testing only lasted a month or a month and half. After that I got a pretty good sense of how everything is going and I started testing every other day and now I test Alk 2 times a week and Cal once a week. I never buy huge colonies so I don't think my parameters will change drastically like over 0.5 Alk in a week. So I think Trident is over rated in some sense. I just don't see any reason to test any parameters four times a day...

 

[roberthu526]

I'd generally agree that something of the magnitude of 1 dkh is caused by something other than coral growth (GFO, dosing, PH change, etc.). But, these things happen and often have a delayed impact on alk. When I start up nitrate dosing for example once it reaches my lower limit , the effect's of the nitrate dosing are delayed. So how do I know when the additional alk consumption spurred by NO3 dosing kicks in without daily testing? I have enough things fluctuating at this point in my tank that daily testing is still required. But yes the swings are getting much smaller as my tank matures and I haven't had anything more than .5 dkh in quite a while. My daily change is typically in the .1-.2 range.

Something is definitely going on with your tank. I am not sure how your SPS are doing but a stable tank in my mind is you won't be able to detect any variance between any consecutive days. I haven't seen swings over 0.2 dkh in a week for a quite a while now and my tank is merely 6 months old.

 

[CMO]

Something is definitely going on with your tank. I am not sure how your SPS are doing but a stable tank in my mind is you won't be able to detect any variance between any consecutive days. I haven't seen swings over 0.2 dkh in a week for a quite a while now and my tank is merely 6 months old.

Nothing going on with my tank. Everything is extremely stable thanks to daily alk testing ;). Just about at one year.

 

[CMO]

While all I know is that my tank requires daily alk testing at this point (I test extensively including monthly ICP so I can assure you nothing is "wrong"), I don't doubt mature tanks of others do not.

But curious what folks like @bubbaque or @FarmerTy might have to say on frequency of alk testing. You guys both have beautiful SPS tanks - how often do you test alk?

 

[hart24601]

Thanks - the reason I asked - is that I've thought about buying (one) of the various brands - but I keep thinking - what am I really gaining? Is there really a benefit to keeping the alk at x.0 vs x.3... Then I think about all of the potential problems using another piece of equipment to potentially fail. Then I realize that my tank does fine checking alk every 2 weeks - and I haven't adjusted anything for 6 months... But - the idea is still cool - so still debating the purchase

My reasoning is that I have a nano with clams and lots of stony coral. The clams alone consume around 1.5-2dkh per day and it's only increasing. If a clam or several stop doing well or just stop growing it wouldn't take many days to really spike alk or if my doser has an issue for alk to drop fast. The alkatronic has Bluetooth outlet to shut off doser if all goes above a set level and to dose alk as a stop gap if drops too low.

Actually I recently modified how much I dose. I forgot to hit enter on the machine and went to bed. The next morning I had alert on phone the alk was low! It would have been several days before I checked levels normally. Would it have been a crash? Probably not, but it sure wouldn't have been good.

For my purposes it's just a safety measure. Can set to only monitor and not do anything but alert you if desired.

 

[bubbaque]

While all I know is that my tank requires daily alk testing at this point (I test extensively including monthly ICP so I can assure you nothing is "wrong"), I don't doubt mature tanks of others do not.

But curious what folks like @bubbaque or @FarmerTy might have to say on frequency of alk testing. You guys both have beautiful SPS tanks - how often do you test alk?

I find my alk pretty stable these days but I test every 2-3 days just to make sure nothing out the ordinary is happening.

 

[FarmerTy]

I find my alk pretty stable these days but I test every 2-3 days just to make sure nothing out the ordinary is happening.

I test every 1-2 weeks. It usually doesn't budge much with the CaRX tuned and everything in full growth mode.

I have an alkatronic now so I have it test every 12 hrs.

 

[CMO]

Thanks for sharing @bubbaque and @FarmerTy. Does the answer differ at all based on tank maturity? If so how long did it take for your tank to reach your current level of stability, especially 1-2 weeks @FarmerTy.

 

[FarmerTy]

Thanks for sharing @bubbaque and @FarmerTy. Does the answer differ at all based on tank maturity? If so how long did it take for your tank to reach your level of stability, especially 1-2 weeks @FarmerTy.

I'm pretty sure @bubbaque could test every 1-2 weeks too and be fine but he's paranoid. [emoji12]

The last two upgrades, it took me about 2-4 months for everything to stabilize and go into full growth mode mostly. The back and forth until it stabilizes is a pain if you have lots of corals.

 

[bubbaque]

I’m really paranoid about it, haha. I want the trident to hurry up and come out so I can monitor alk without having to manually check it.

I’m not sure if maturity has anything to do with but more so stability. If you find stability at 6 months then maybe you need to check less often than those who still struggle with stability at the one year mark.