Triton vs. Aquamedic AWT vs. Hobbyist kits API Salifert Elos RedSea Hanna etc

[jason2459]

Do you use Kalk/limewater for your ATO? Alk swings could be happening as well due to more evaporation as humidity is driven down here in the winter. I would guess lighting is most of it. But it could very well be a combination of many factors which each alone would look just fine.

But lighting is critical and SPS do not like alk swings. Or higher alk when nutrients like NO3 and PO4 are very very low which at 8dkh if accurate I would assume is fine.

 

[JimWelsh]

I do use a calibrated(with 35 fluid) Refractometer. Is it possible to be off by enough to make a difference. What ppt do you calculate it to be?

32.4

 

[LostInTheDark]

No Kalk. I have a doser for Alk and Cal.

 

[jason2459]

The results are in and I'm glad I don't depend on a method of dosing and testing.

I'll be compiling this data with previous data shortly. I see tin went down slightly but now bromide is elevated somehow (saltmix but rate of water change hasn't changed) and now I have a reading of Aluminum out of nowhere. But suffice to say I will take the results and do nothing. I'm satisfied with what I was doing that led up to the first results back from Triton. Then I started messing with dosing.

1% water changes daily with IO, a little less Mg added to my saltmix, and limewater in my ATO seems to be all I need to get the parameters I need.

Carbon dosing with vinegar, skimming, 1% water change daily, and algae harvesting via ATS to help remove the things I don't need.

 

[jason2459]

First comparing my testing results from the same night I filled the vials to be shipped to Triton which starts my confusion of the latest results from triton.

Salinity:
34ppt Veegee
36ppt Milwaukee digital
35.7 Apex probe
35.48 calculated from Triton results

Calcium:
440 API
474.10 Triton

Mg:
1485 Salifert
1449 Triton


Just those alone seems very odd. I'm not sure how my calcium jumped up from 448 in my last Triton result to 474 in the recent one while at the same time my Mg dropped from 1501 in the last Triton testing to 1449 in this most recent testing. 1% water changes were maintained and was still using the same batch of new saltwater mix as I was using for the previous Triton tests. I would have expected Mg to have stayed roughly the same. Calcium may have creeped up if nothing was consuming it as my ATO uses limewater to supplement Calcium and Alk but I didn't add or remove anything from the tank. I didn't have any noticeable coralline growth or decline. The rise in calcium and decline in Mg seem very much at odds with each other.

I have a good amount of trust in the Salifert Mg test kit with in a 50ppm +/- range which triton is right on that boarder with 1449. The API I'm usually good to trust it with in a +/- 20ppm range which the Triton results were even out of that range. All other testing rounds they were well with in range of each other.

I also trust my Veegee refractometer over everything to tell me nothing changed salinity wise which was 34ppt in the previous testing by my veegee and calculated out to 39.96 via Triton's previous results. I even snapped off and posted the pictures with 35ppt fluid and with my tank water that was a hair lower at 34ppt. Everything except Tin on the last result and the first set of tests from Triton lined up right with what I was testing with my test kits and between the two (first and second rounds of Triton testing). Then on top of that my Br is elevated from 66.28mg/l to 80.60mg/l. First round it was 65.14mg/l. Only source I can think of for this is my saltmix but why wasn't it elevated before in the first two rounds with Triton. This third time doesn't seem to line up very well at all like they mixed up the vials with someone else.

True the Milwaukee and Apex showed higher then 35ppt but the Milwaukee seems to always read high and has in all previous testing and also with the 35ppt solution. The Apex probe varies all day long between 33 and 36 so I have no faith in it's precision just trend and failsafes.

Then on to the other results. Tin was still there but slightly lower. BUT now there's a reading for Aluminum which neither of the two previous Test results showed any of. So, I might believe something caused a brief tin increase and now its slowly going out with the water changes or algae consuming it partially? But now Al as well is in my system. Very perplexing and happy that I'm not going to worry about it from this point forward.

Lithium was elevated still and well. That's that. Not worried about that at all. It is lower this time then the previous two times though.

Iodine has a big jump and seems way to big of a jump. I did dose that and the Sr/Mo supplements.

Quoted from a previous post is what I dosed the past few days.
"Based on the first round of testing Triton suggested a Molybdenum dosing of 34.1ml/day for 2 days and 13.59ml for 1 day. I didn't find Mo by itself locally I did find some Kent Strontium/Molybdenum and decided to use it. As according to the first rounds of tests Strontium was slightly low but with in acceptable ranges of the set point and Molybdenum is not something I really care to increase that much of anyway least it becomes toxic. I went ahead and dosed 40ml of that for 2 days and 20ml of it on the third day in the mornings. I took the water samples in the evening.

For Iodine Triton suggested 5.48ml for 1 day. I found some seachem Iodide and dosed 5.5ml of it that morning as well on the day that the water samples were taken at night. "


So, with a previous reading of 75.51ug/l from my second test which was about 2.5 weeks apart between the two water samples taken I dosed another single day of 5.5ml. Between however much may have been depleted in those 2.5weeks, 1% water changes daily during that time, and then added with 5.5ml of Iodide would that have increased my I to 124.00?!? I know math can figure that out but doesn't seem possible.

AND I actually have a reading of Iron in the latest results. .32ug/l I did dose Iron once right after that 2nd Triton test and before I decided to not change anything. I would have figured that would have been depleted very quickly with my ATS and everything else in the tank. I dosed a cap full of seachem flourish Iron supplement on 11/24. Again I don't see how that would have registered in a sample taken on 12/11 that was this latest result from Triton is from showing that iron.

It also looks like Si about doubled itself as well.


About the only thing that really makes sense is the P/PO4 levels. lol

Holy cow, I'm so happy I don't plan on doing any kind of dosing method. Could it be vials got mixed up? Could my water be so different? Could the colder weather have made this big of a difference? I have no idea other then to ignore the results this round other then believe there's a possibility of some kind of metal in my system and it's working it's way out.

Maybe in the spring I'll look at doing one more round with Triton and AWT as well. Give AWT one more chance.

 

[jason2459]

Here's the three rounds of Triton tests together.

 

[jason2459]

So, after looking over all three results together overall it's not crazy. Definitely some anomalize like I already mentioned above like with the calcium and Mg going in different directions and should have remained pretty much the same. The jump in Br is baffling and the Aluminum and Iron now showing up... ok it's wacky in places but overall seems ok but I'm glad I have two others and my own testing to compare against to keep things in check. So, basically I can't trust anything 100% but it's all accurate enough. Just like I've always said about API Nitrate, Calcium and Alk tests but boy are they a lot cheaper. HA! So, I'll ignore those readings and trust my own.

But it looks like the Zinc is in a declining trend and some metal be it tin, aluminum, or iron is processing through my system no idea what. I do have some polyfilters on hand for those just in case situations and I think I'll add some in between my baffles leading to my return pump. Leave it in there for a few days and see if it changes any colors besides detritus build up.

As for dosing. I certainly will not be dosing Iodide anymore or ever again but I may keep dosing Sr/Mo but just add it to my Salt Mix along with a little bit of Mg. I'm going to be making some new salt mix this weekend and will calculate out how much I should add to each new bach. It wont be much as I wouldn't mind keeping it where it's at. From my understanding goniopora likes Sr/Mo? I have a small pretty red goniopora I'd like to see take off and the little bit of the Sr/Mo added to the salt mix. I don't think will hurt anything and I have a big bottle of it anyway so may as well use it. In the spring when I do another Triton comparison testing I will see where those values are and by then hope to see any kind of results with the goniopora as well. I do want to get the Mg back closer to 1350 so will hold off on adding Mg this weekend and test before the next batch in another month or so. Then work out what little bit I should add to keep it there.

I have learned over the past couple months doing the Nitrate comparison testing, PO4 comparison testing, Triton vs Me testing, and this AWT vs Triton vs Me vs Triton again and again testing:

• I can generally trust myself in testing the basic major elements.
• All testing is susceptible to testing error some places more then others (*cough* AWT *cough*)
• Most all test kits are accurate enough so pick one you can perform consistently and able to read the end points
• Red Sea Mg Pro is the only test kit I have not gotten consistent results with so will never use it again and tossing it in the trash. YMMV
• Dosing with out testing is risky
• Testing to determine dosing can cause anxiety
• A single test or data point is unreliable and with out trends can be misleading
• Using your eyes to pay attention to how your tank is "Acting" can be better then any test
• Do not change what is not broken
• Don't be close minded and opposed to change
• I love my veegee /vitalsine salinity refractometer

So, I guess for now that's it. In a few days I'll pull out the polyfilter and post up a picture of it seeing what color it's turned and if it indicates any metals but there are limits to how much even it can pull out.

 

[twilliard]

You are on the right path by taking averages

 

[jason2459]

You are on the right path by taking averages

Thanks. Its been fun and informative to me. I really like Triton is out there doing these kinds of tests. The method is not for me but I will probably do one or two of these a year going forward. I think it's worth it if anything to get a rough idea of the other parameters that aren't commonly tested for or can't be tested for with hobby kits.

 

[twilliard]

This is so true!
I test every 20 days.
Its interesting to see what foods can introduce metals or even a change in plumbing can introduce tin.
Happy reefing!

 

[jason2459]

Not seeing any hint of anything being picked up by the polyfilter other then detritus, bacteria, and various critters.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Aluminum, zinc, and tin won't color a polyfilter, I don't believe.

 

[jason2459]

Aluminum, zinc, and tin won't color a polyfilter, I don't believe.

I wasn't sure about the zinc or tin as they don't specify a color for those. But I was looking for red for aluminum and orange for the iron. All I saw is the beige to brown color indicating normal waste collection. I cut through a few sections as well.

Assuming their literature is correct
"Another important and patented feature of the "Poly Filter" is its unique ability to change a different color with the absorption of specific pollutants. It turns blue with a copper salt, light green to aqua with free copper, orange with iron, red with aluminum, yellowish green with ammonia and white to beige to brown to black with the absorption of harmful organics. This unique feature not only assures the hobbyist that the "Poly Filter" is functioning but helps him to monitor changes in water conditions and tells him when to replace the filter."

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wasn't sure about the zinc or tin as they don't specify a color for those. But I was looking for red for aluminum and orange for the iron. All I saw is the beige to brown color indicating normal waste collection. I cut through a few sections as well.

Assuming their literature is correct
"Another important and patented feature of the "Poly Filter" is its unique ability to change a different color with the absorption of specific pollutants. It turns blue with a copper salt, light green to aqua with free copper, orange with iron, red with aluminum, yellowish green with ammonia and white to beige to brown to black with the absorption of harmful organics. This unique feature not only assures the hobbyist that the "Poly Filter" is functioning but helps him to monitor changes in water conditions and tells him when to replace the filter."

Zinc is not generally colored in any form. Tin may be blackish in some forms, but not brightly colored that you'd probably see it against the brown.

That said, I'm not sure how well polyfilters bind these either.

 

[jason2459]

Just an update on my next adventure

Big 3 Shootout is coming together and will be done in the next couple weeks.

Alk Tests:
AWT (Aquamedic Water Testing)
API
Salifert
Redsea
Nyos
Elos
Hanna Checker


Ca Tests:
AWT
Triton
API
Salifert
Redsea
Nyos
Elos

Mg Tests:
AWT
Triton
Salifert
RedSea
Nyos
Elos

 

[jason2459]

Boom!

 

[Perculap]

Since the kits were mailed in Winter, and AWT is in Colorado, do you think the temp had any bearing on the tests?
I imagine the kits would be in a climate controlled lab before testing though?

Between all the testing I've now done the past month or so I have come to a few conclusions right or wrong.

1. I don't trust AWT for many of the parameters they tested
2. I don't trust Triton in regard to at least heavy metals
3. Don't chase specific numbers but keep in a safe range
4. My eyes are much better at detecting issues
5. My own testing is more then good enough for me with the chosen kits I tested with in this final round minus Red Sea
6. I don't trust Red Sea at all for it's Mg test
7. I love my vitalsine/veegee refractometer and still believe it to be the most accurate device I have for testing salinity
8. Keep doing what I've done. Don't break what's not broken.

 

[jason2459]

Since the kits were mailed in Winter, and AWT is in Colorado, do you think the temp had any bearing on the tests?
I imagine the kits would be in a climate controlled lab before testing though?

Minimal and my guess would be beneficial for the inorganic materials like metals that organics could consume.

 

[Pbh-reef]

Found this thread and the other parts of @jason2459's testing today, this is amazing work. I'm new to this forum so could be wrong but honestly think this thread should have a sticky, or that someone should summarize all the testing threads @jason2459 has done and have it written up as a sticky or article. As someone coming back into the hobby, it gives really helpful context for deciding what test kits to start with.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree, it's a nice study and I point it out when appropriate.