Triton vs. Aquamedic AWT vs. Hobbyist kits API Salifert Elos RedSea Hanna etc

[huskerreefatl]

I like the Ca and Mg tests but the Alk just doesn't work very well....at least the batch of reagent that I got. I contacted them and they sent me a new bottle but is was the same lot and exp date and tested the same. I contacted them again and asked for another one but a different lot to see if it is the reagent. Supposedly they are sending me another one and I will compare. The colors are so light that it is hard to tell when to stop adding drops.

 

[TUSI]

I did many test with AWT back When I started out and all I have to say I had a very bad experience. I don't trust any of these water labs. I sent two water samples of the same water with two different names and accounts and guess what the results were different. Same water different results.

 

[jason2459]

I have begun comparing API, Red Sea, Salifert, and Hanna and will add some of my results but what I have noticed so far is that the Red Sea Alk test is terrible. The colors are so faint that it is hard to tell when to stop adding drops. Salifert and API are much clearer to read.

Nice, I always like comparisons. I've heard a lot of good things about the various redsea tests except for the Mg has a lot of mixed reviews. Many times its about the Mg test coming back lower then expected and compared to other tests. I haven't had a good experience yet with the redsea Mg kit myself. I have had good results with the RedSea Nitrate kit.

I've always been a fan of the Salifert Mg test. It was quite some time ago, 2009/2010 maybe?, but from what I understand the Salifert Mg test and many of their kits are formulated specifically for testing seawater. Also I like that the owner and chemist posts on many of these forums from time to time. Habib I believe is his screen name. I know Randy knows what it is.

If API hasn't been so consistent, cheap, and easy to use I would probably use Salifert for the Calcium and Alk too.

I frankly find the Red Sea tests Calc, Alk, AND Mag. to be quite easy to use. I have cross compared them to various other test kits. The only problem I have had with Red Sea was when I used a wrong reagent and started to panic about the results. This probably wouldn't have happened if the Calc and Mag had different colored reagent labels. (both are maroon).

They are not difficult by any means but Redsea kits tend to have more steps involved like with the Nitrate kit. That lends for more room for error and bad reagents.

I did many test with AWT back When I started out and all I have to say I had a very bad experience. I don't trust any of these water labs. I sent two water samples of the same water with two different names and accounts and guess what the results were different. Same water different results.

I have not heard of many positive reviews for AWT but was hoping they could be turning around with what they say they invested in all new lab equipment and all. I was thoroughly disappointed.

I do have a much greater level of trust in the Triton lab. Though I think there's reason to have a certain level of doubts in certain areas I believe overall it was a worthwhile and trust worthy test. But I think it's good to question or try and understand any results that don't seem right.

It is entirely possible my tin is at or near those levels listed but where it would come from totally baffles me. It would concern me of it was dosing one of those supplements. It would not be the first time Kent has had contaminated products. A few years ago their GAC was found to have copper and wiped out many tanks including several of my LFS's displays. Kent did stand by their product and from what I understand compensated many. There's also the assumption their Tech-M has some contaminant that Bryopsis doesn't like.

Which is why I'm entertaining the idea of testing again in about a month to see where those levels are again.


Question for @Randy Holmes-Farley

If the levels of tin were raised with dosing Sr/Mo supplement only one dose per day at 40ml for two days and 20ml for one day over three days leading up to the water samples taken would it be safe to assume

1. there's a rather high amount of Tin in that product and many people dosing with that product over a long period of time would have lethal levels of Tin? What is that level?

2. If it was from the Sr/Mo and I haven't doesn't any since that in about a month of ~1% water changes daily that those levels of Tin would be greatly reduced if not back to undetectable?

If the Tin levels was from plumbing wouldn't I have seen it in the previous test as I did all my plumbing for the tank about 6 years ago. I did get a new skimmer last year that's all acrylic And a Turbo ATS with about 10" of PVC about 6 months ago.

The zinc levels I registered in the first Triton test didn't throw me off so much as I figured much of it could be a combination of the many foods I feed and saltmix. This Tin threw me off gaurd. Then I see three other people also register high tin levels by Triton just recently in the last week.

 

[jason2459]

I'm a sucker for data points and analysis. I just ordered a 3 pack. I figured I'll use them sooner or later.

I'm thinking how I want to do this next test as I doubt its the supplements I added. As soon as I get the kits I'll dose the same amounts of each 3 days leading up to taking a set of water samples. Only thing that will have changed is ~1% daily water changes from the last test. Which is why I decided to test again sooner then later. It will be with the same new saltwater used for water changes. Basically everything the same. If it's the supplements it will either be the same or increased amounts.

If the zinc is is not detected again I will assume testing error in the last test. If it's still showing in the results from the next test I have to assume it's in the water and I will want to find the source.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If the levels of tin were raised with dosing Sr/Mo supplement only one dose per day at 40ml for two days and 20ml for one day over three days leading up to the water samples taken would it be safe to assume

1. there's a rather high amount of Tin in that product and many people dosing with that product over a long period of time would have lethal levels of Tin? What is that level?

2. If it was from the Sr/Mo and I haven't doesn't any since that in about a month of ~1% water changes daily that those levels of Tin would be greatly reduced if not back to undetectable?

If the Tin levels was from plumbing wouldn't I have seen it in the previous test as I did all my plumbing for the tank about 6 years ago. I did get a new skimmer last year that's all acrylic And a Turbo ATS with about 10" of PVC about 6 months ago.

The zinc levels I registered in the first Triton test didn't throw me off so much as I figured much of it could be a combination of the many foods I feed and saltmix. This Tin threw me off gaurd. Then I see three other people also register high tin levels by Triton just recently in the last week.

It isn't possible with heavy metals to always say with any credibility what levels are toxic (or even desirable) because there are often multiple forms of each (such as different oxidation states and inorganic complexes and ion pairs) and they are often bound to organic matter, which impacts their bioavailability a lot. IT can also be present as organotin forms, such as are used to kill marine inverts in antibiofouling paints and such. So it is very complex to understand tin in a reef tank.

Here's a brief discussion of tin in water:

http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/tin/tin-and-water.htm

Assuming there was no other input or export, if you start at 10 ppb tin and do 30 x 1% water changes (with zero tin in the new water), the level will drop to 7.4 ppb.

 

[jason2459]

Thanks a lot for the input, calculation, and link. Will be reading it shortly.


That last paragraph of my last post should have been tin not zinc. I wasn't as worried about the zinc. Or at least I could understand where it would have come from.

 

[jason2459]

Great information in that link. Now I know I'm loosing my hair due to a tin deficiency and not because I'm getting old. [emoji1]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Drinking your tank water seems the obvious answer to both problems.

 

[jason2459]

Like the fountain of youth in our own homes.

 

[LostInTheDark]

Hey @jason2459
Just wanted to thank you for the post. It made me question the results of my Red Sea test kits. I ended up getting the test kits you recommended and found some big differences, especially using the Hanna 736. I also ordered a Triton test just to double check everything.
Thanks again for the testing and results.

 

[jason2459]

Hey @jason2459
Just wanted to thank you for the post. It made me question the results of my Red Sea test kits. I ended up getting the test kits you recommended and found some big differences, especially using the Hanna 736. I also ordered a Triton test just to double check everything.
Thanks again for the testing and results.

Welcome and thanks for the feedback. Glad it was informative. For the main and what I would consider the critical numbers the Triton test seems reliable. It really only lacks Nitrates and Alk. They do provide a Nitrate test but not here in the US. It's part of their HPLC tests.

RedSea Mg is really the only hobby kit I've come across that's been completely unreliable. Besides that one I see all the rest as personal preferences based on ability to perform the tests consistently and the ability to read the end points.

 

[jason2459]

I got shipment confirmation for the Triton test kit so I'll start dosing the Kent Sr/Mo tomorrow morning.

 

[huskerreefatl]

I just started a new thread with my test results and thoughts. I didn't want to hijack this thread.

 

[jason2459]

Edit: this is posting all kinds of weird. let me try this again in another post

 

[jason2459]

Time to find out if I have Tin in my tank or not. This will be the 3rd set of samples sent to Triton in about a 1 month period.

First Sample was taken from my tank on 11/03/2015 and results back from Triton showed 0 Tin or any other Unwanted Heavy Metals as they label the group.

Second Sample was taken from my tank on 11/23/2015 and results back fro Triton showed 3.4ug/L of Tin.

This third set was taken earlier on 12/11/2015 and I will be sending out later today as it's now 12/12/2015 as I write this. 18 days since the last sample taken.

I have tried to repeat exactly what I did leading up to 11/23/2015. I've been feeding the same foods, using the same salt mix to do water changes at ~1% per day, and dosed the Seachem Iodide and Kent Sr/Mo supplements 3 days leading up to today with the 1 and only dose of Iodide and last dose of Sr/Mo done this morning as it was suggested by Triton from the first set of results. And adjusted based on what I got.

Quoted from a previous post is what I dosed the past few days.
"Based on the first round of testing Triton suggested a Molybdenum dosing of 34.1ml/day for 2 days and 13.59ml for 1 day. I didn't find Mo by itself locally I did find some Kent Strontium/Molybdenum and decided to use it. As according to the first rounds of tests Strontium was slightly low but with in acceptable ranges of the set point and Molybdenum is not something I really care to increase that much of anyway least it becomes toxic. I went ahead and dosed 40ml of that for 2 days and 20ml of it on the third day in the mornings. I took the water samples in the evening.

For Iodine Triton suggested 5.48ml for 1 day. I found some seachem Iodide and dosed 5.5ml of it that morning as well on the day that the water samples were taken at night. "


So, for tonight's round of testing I chose my favorites

First a quick snapshot of quick input parameters.

Went ahead and brought out the Milwaukee Digital again and Zero'ed it out with RO/DI as normal as that's all it can be calibrated with and then placed some PinPoint 53ms 35ppt Calibration fluid on it.

And of course it read high

Wiped it clean and placed some tank water on it

And of course it read high

Broke out my trusty Veegee/Vitalsine refractometer and placed some of that calibration fluid on it and

right on the nose 35ppt (this is pretty cool. I never tried taking a picture of this before and it wasn't easy getting it lined up and it's actually easier to read in person)

Wiped clean and placed on some tank water and

34ppt

 

[jason2459]

On to the other parameters with the test kits.

Nitrate:
<2 and around .2

.
.
.
Phosphates:
6ppm or 0.018ppm (rounded to 0.02ppm by Apex Fusion)

.
.
.
Alkalinity:
~10

.
.
.
Calcium:
~440

.
.
.
Magnesium:
~1485 - 1500

That dip below close to 1000 was that stupid Red Sea Mg Pro kit that's not worth a darn

 

[huskerreefatl]

What is the difference between the hanna phosphate and phosphorous test kits? I have the phosphate but see that you have the other.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What is the difference between the hanna phosphate and phosphorous test kits? I have the phosphate but see that you have the other.

They both use the same basic test method. The only difference is the effectiverange of detection and the error bars on the answer. The 713 is +/- 0.04 ppm and the 736 is +/- 0.015 ppm (when converted into ppm phosphate units)

 

[huskerreefatl]

They both use the same basic test method. The only difference is the effectiverange of detection and the error bars on the answer. The 713 is +/- 0.04 ppm and the 736 is +/- 0.15 ppm (when converted into ppm phosphate units)

I was just on their site looking at the two and the 736 says specifically for saltwater aquariums but it sounds like the 713 is more accurate. Is that correct?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was just on their site looking at the two and the 736 says specifically for saltwater aquariums but it sounds like the 713 is more accurate. Is that correct?

The 736 is more accurate on the low end (where you would typically care a lot) , and both work in seawater.