Tropic Marin Pro Reef Users: How Do You Manage Alkalinity?

[cshouston]

For those who use Tropic Marin Pro Reef, we know that its baseline alkalinity tends to be somewhere between 7.0-7.3. I’m making the assumption that not everyone using this salt wants to have their alkalinity at that level, despite being closer to natural seawater. There is proven growth to be gained by running a higher alkalinity.

How do you guys manage your alkalinity? Do you dose your new saltwater before performing a water change? Do you just roll with the lower levels? Did you switch salts altogether to one with high alkalinity?

Personally, as my system is SPS-dominant, I’m starting to wonder if I should just err towards stability and live with the lower levels, just dosing my DT for consumption, but not shooting for elevated levels overall. My fear is that I’m doing more harm than good by messing with the alkalinity so much. That, or potentially switching to TM Classic or HW-Marine to get a higher alk out of the box, so to speak.

All thoughts and comments welcomed!

 

[homer1475]

If it wasn't so dang expensive, I would use it as is.

I run my alk 7.0 to 7.5, but use regular IO because of price. Having to use acid to lower it is kind of a pain, but doesn't take away from the low cost.

 

[Tamberav]

Any reason you don't just use tropic marine classic? It has higher alk.

 

[cshouston]

Any reason you don't just use tropic marine classic? It has higher alk.

Much lower calcium/magnesium. I was under the impression that it was designed for FOWLR systems.

 

[X-37B]

I run 7-7.5 also.
Ran 8-8.5 on startup but lowered it and see better growth on my system at closer to NSW.
Whatever you chose, stability by keeping alk in your specified range is always a win win.

 

[bam123]

I supplement with two part. Goal of alkalinity at 8.0. I may just let the alkalinity drop to 7.0 over the next month and see how things go. My stonies don't look so great.

 

[Tamberav]

Much lower calcium/magnesium. I was under the impression that it was designed for FOWLR systems.

They are still within range to maintain a reef. It says on BRS website it is perfect for fish only AND coral reef systems.

I use it on my 5g pico and I don't dose. Water changes only and everything has grown from small frags.

 

[driftin]

I used to bump it up (to ~8) with some bicarb during mixing, which frankly was really easy to do, but more recently (past couple months) I've been running where it mixes. No issues that I can see at all with the slightly lower Alk.

 

[jrill]

I add BRS sodium bicarbonate to up water changes

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For those who use Tropic Marin Pro Reef, we know that its baseline alkalinity tends to be somewhere between 7.0-7.3. I’m making the assumption that not everyone using this salt wants to have their alkalinity at that level, despite being closer to natural seawater. There is proven growth to be gained by running a higher alkalinity.

How do you guys manage your alkalinity? Do you dose your new saltwater before performing a water change? Do you just roll with the lower levels? Did you switch salts altogether to one with high alkalinity?

Personally, as my system is SPS-dominant, I’m starting to wonder if I should just err towards stability and live with the lower levels, just dosing my DT for consumption, but not shooting for elevated levels overall. My fear is that I’m doing more harm than good by messing with the alkalinity so much. That, or potentially switching to TM Classic or HW-Marine to get a higher alk out of the box, so to speak.

All thoughts and comments welcomed!

If your tank level is higher, it's perfectly appropriate to boost the salt mix to match the tank. But if the tank is not where you want it, directly dosing the tank is more sensible due to timing issues. Excessive dosing into a salt mix also may result in precipitation of calcium carbonate.

 

[SMSREEF]

If your tank level is higher, it's perfectly appropriate to boost the salt mix to match the tank. But if the tank is not where you want it, directly dosing the tank is more sensible due to timing issues. Excessive dosing into a salt mix also may result in precipitation of calcium carbonate.

Hey Randy, What amount of Alk do you consider excessive dosing into a salt mix that would cause precipitation?
I’m assuming 7 to 8 would be fine right?

 

[EMeyer]

There is proven growth to be gained by running a higher alkalinity.

I don't think this is true, and haven't found any papers supporting it. Do you know of any?

 

[cshouston]

I don't think this is true, and haven't found any papers supporting it. Do you know of any?

How to Grow Corals Quicker: Effects of Various Alkalinity Concentrations on Rates of Zooxanthellae Photosynthesis

For corals to grow at their best, many chemical and physical conditions must be optimized. Dana Riddle examines the effects of varying levels of dissolved bicarbonates on coral photosynthesis and growth.

reefs.com

Turbocharge Photosynthesis! Alkalinity, Light, & Water Motion by Dana Riddle

Turbocharge Photosynthesis! Alkalinity, Light, & Water Motion by Dana Riddle

macna.org

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't think this is true, and haven't found any papers supporting it. Do you know of any?

That is widely known, but not studied that much by scientists since it does not get high in nature. But when studied, it does show increased growth, and many hobbyists fiend the same:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1529-8817.2007.00445.x

A wide range of bicarbonate concentrations was used to monitor the kinetics of bicarbonate (HCO3−) use in both photosynthesis and calcification in two reef‐building corals, Porites porites and Acropora sp. Experiments carried out close to the P. porites collection site in Barbados showed that additions of NaHCO3 to synthetic seawater proportionally increased the calcification rate of this coral until the concentration exceeded three times that of seawater (6 mM).

https://repository.kaust.edu.sa/bitstream/handle/10754/629445/bg-15-6277-2018.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

" We identified a positive correlation of TA with reef growth in our dataset. The difference in TA across our study sites was small, but in the range of natural cross-shelf differences reported from other reefs (e.g., reefs in Bermuda, 20–40 µmol kg−1 , Bates et al., 2010), and as high as 50 µmol kg−1 , which was shown to enhance community net calcification in a reef-enclosed lagoon (Albright et al., 2016). "

 

[EMeyer]

That is widely known, but not studied that much by scientists since it does not get high in nature. But when studied, it does show increased growth, and many hobbyists fiend the same:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1529-8817.2007.00445.x

A wide range of bicarbonate concentrations was used to monitor the kinetics of bicarbonate (HCO3−) use in both photosynthesis and calcification in two reef‐building corals, Porites porites and Acropora sp. Experiments carried out close to the P. porites collection site in Barbados showed that additions of NaHCO3 to synthetic seawater proportionally increased the calcification rate of this coral until the concentration exceeded three times that of seawater (6 mM).

https://repository.kaust.edu.sa/bitstream/handle/10754/629445/bg-15-6277-2018.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

" We identified a positive correlation of TA with reef growth in our dataset. The difference in TA across our study sites was small, but in the range of natural cross-shelf differences reported from other reefs (e.g., reefs in Bermuda, 20–40 µmol kg−1 , Bates et al., 2010), and as high as 50 µmol kg−1 , which was shown to enhance community net calcification in a reef-enclosed lagoon (Albright et al., 2016). "

Thanks Randy, thats a good one! You'll forgive me I hope if I'm skeptical of things that are "widely known" in the hobby, since so many turn out to be wrong Like you said, this subject doesnt get a whole lot of attention in peer reviewed studies since high alkalinity doesnt happen much in nature.

But the paper you linked (full text here) has some pretty convincing evidence, based on their use of defined media and their sensitive methods for measuring calcification rates.

I am surprised to learn that not only is growth more sensitive to total alkalinity than I had thought, but that this effect doesnt saturate until the levels are double or triple that of natural seawater. Thats quite an effect.

 

[Steve1500]

If your tank level is higher, it's perfectly appropriate to boost the salt mix to match the tank. But if the tank is not where you want it, directly dosing the tank is more sensible due to timing issues. Excessive dosing into a salt mix also may result in precipitation of calcium carbonate.

Hi Randy, I am using TM Pro and the alkalinity in my SW bin (~40G) drops drastically (8.5 to 6.9) in just a few hours. There is a lot of precipitation on the sides of the bin but I am not sure if this is the cause. For some reason, I have to does about 180% of the BRS calculator amounts of soda ash to get it up to 8.5. I am using a hanna checker and I recheck to ensure my testing is correct.

If it is calcium carbonate precipitation, would this decrease the alkalinity?
If not, any ideas on why it drops so much or why I have to dose 180%?

 

[josephxsxn]

Not using Tropic Marin but Brightwell Neomarine which has a DKH ~7.5. I attempt to match all the incoming values of my salt mix so it's no big deal for me to keep it here.

Thinking PH may be a larger booster of growth from my observations in my own tanks. On my old tank I attempted to run elevated 11 DKH along with increased calcium, but I always had more of a 7.9 pH on that tank.. on my rebuild tank I'm running the 7.5 DKH matching my salt mix but ran the outdoor skimmer line and my bottom pH is normally never less than 8.1 and through the day I'll get to 8.3.

 

[drawman]

I use TM Pro for a few reasons including the lower alk. If I want to raise mine someday adding a little buffer to my saltwater mixing station would be an easy fix.

 

[Corgigirl]

Interesting thread....I’ve been using TMP salt for the last 4 months, then dose All-for-Reef daily. It keeps my Alk at 9.0 +/- 0.4 or so. All of my corals seem to love it, good growth, new frags encrust quickly. Pleased with it so far

 

[Barnabie Mejia]

Interesting thread....I’ve been using TMP salt for the last 4 months, then dose All-for-Reef daily. It keeps my Alk at 9.0 +/- 0.4 or so. All of my corals seem to love it, good growth, new frags encrust quickly. Pleased with it so far

Are you dosing anything into your mixing container before the water change? I am just wondering because if your tank is at 9.0 range and the pro reef salt typically mixes at 7.0 range that difference would drive your dkH down a little during the water change.....
I am really looking at all for reef for my 75g, because it would free up dosers in my cabinet and to be honest, I don't like to be mixing up all the alk calc and mag supplements.... maybe I'm just being lazy.

I have been dosing my mixing container to match my tank, been doing this for over a year of using pro reef salt.

Thanks,

Barnabie Mejia