Trying SPS, bleached white overnight / 2 days

reefwiser

LMAS
View Badges
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
7,538
Reaction score
9,525
Location
Louisville,Kentucky
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Can you elaborate on this? I've switched between a number of different pumps and flow characteristics and never had a fatality. I'd think the change would have to be pretty extreme to result in this type of reaction from the coral.
Its really something I have seen over 30 years of keeps SPS hundreds of them. When I had a basement full of tanks that :( had tanks with the same corals in them from the same mother colony and would play with variables to see what they liked and what they didn't like. What would happen if a changed the flow direction and amount over the coarse of a few week or a year. Example in my current tank I had a two frags in the same spot for 7 months now. All chemistry was the same ICP testing no differences in lighting monthly Par check to make sure my MH hasn't shifted any. So I installed a inc cap 1 k gyre pump into the tank and observe how the flown is in the tank. After a week I had these two frag RTN. Two of the same pieces in another part of the tank have soon no ill effect.
I have learned to be slow and watchful over the many years in the hobby. An it is also something I have learned being in the maintenance field for 34 years now. SPS have three factors in health light flow and chemistry get one of a little and their health will tip fast in a bad direction. Nothing complicated.
 

hatfielj

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
2,321
Reaction score
1,938
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Good morning,

Noticed yesterday that there seemed to be more white on my new SPS than there was when I got it [growth tips I was assuming].

Today, half of the stick is white and completely dead. One of my other SPS which never took well to my tank [was a rich green color, turned dark green and now is 80% white and bare].

I am at work now, but realized I probably should have removed both of them.

Levels:
ALK: 195 ppm
CAL: 370 ppm
Phosphate: .02 ppm
Mag: 1450 ppm
Nitrate: 5 ppm

I just adjusted down my refugium light to help bring nutrient levels up [phosphate]

Tank is a 13.5 gallon EVO with two misbar percula clownfish, a BTA and some softies/chalices, acans, zoas etc.


I will post pictures shortly - I still saw poly extension on the white portions of the top SPS yesterday, my lights don't turn on before I leave for the day but there was not as much white yesterday.


Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated!

This was right after getting the coral [1 day later] - you can see the color of the tall skinny one, and on the right side of the picture you can see the small, stubby one in the rocks -not very clearly though]
77d94764794968cd0cd59f7a26cf0dd4.jpg


Here's with the whites on, you can see both corals in question

c39284dac4308938896516c96f094611.jpg



Here's another similar to the first one, but with whites on

f58a67bcadf9e1e8eb0098bad869d213.jpg


Here's a picture of the coral this morning with no lights on. two sprouts on the base are completely white, and the tips are turning white towards the main stalk

1c47bbc1cb3121127b16a31d6d90b027.jpg
That frag looks just fine in this picture. That is not bleached at all. You might be seeing a slightly lighter color due to the change in parameters and lighting in your tank compared to the one you got it from. But the frag looks otherwise healthy. You can see good polyp extension throughout. Polyp is a more reliable sign of coral health than color. If the polyps are out, the coral is generally happy. The only exception to this is during an RTN event. The polyps will remain out, but the tissue will be sloughing off at the same time. You do not have this happening at all.
Just keep things stable. If anything, I would bet your lighting is a bit too bright and too white. I would do a heavier blue spectrum to help prevent this. From the pics, it looks like your lights are very white. Acros don't like this and it will cause some lighter colors.
 
OP
OP
Reef of Fillory

Reef of Fillory

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
637
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Definitely possible, but will be much more difficult keeping acropora healthy in a young tank, even harder in a nano.

Watch your levels closely adding Kalk through ato in a small tank. If you can, buying a doser will make keeping SPS in a nano much easier. That way you can add the kalk in small increments throughout the day, and it will be much more effective.

I've decided to go to 2-part with some dosers and stop the Kalk. I know that my Alk was high to start with, so I don't think that the kalk has affected my parameters in a major way [aside from short spikes via ATO]

Am I reading correctly that this is a 13.5 gallon tank? I would not have kalkwasser with and ato on a tank this size. Switch to two part and RO/DI for top off. Tank looks too new from pics also. Lastly, my guess is your light is set way too high for this tank. Remember, in most tanks, there aren't corals in the top 12" or so of water. Could be alk or light plus new.

I have my light running in acclimation mode, my rock came from the bottom of my previous structure [last tank] - thus the white appearance

I started sps without a par reader the trick is that if u have a acclimation mode use it and i also started by putting sps at the bottom of my tank and if it started to brown i would up the power

I have had my acclimation mode going, and then started it over each time I added new pieces [only 3 groups of coral so far]

Easy on the Kalk and also lighting at intro. I had the same luck and a couple months ago lowered my flow, and kept the SPS at mid under blues and Low white, and have beautiful growing pieces.

I may give it a go moving the one remaining SPS piece down lower, some of my other pieces [that pink/green one] are even higher in the tank/rockwork than the new SPs piece, and are doing great so it's kind of confusing [the new SPS does stick up higher, but most of it is actually further from the light]



Thanks for all the info/opinions everyone - I appreciate it! Lots to think about
 
OP
OP
Reef of Fillory

Reef of Fillory

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
637
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That frag looks just fine in this picture. That is not bleached at all. You might be seeing a slightly lighter color due to the change in parameters and lighting in your tank compared to the one you got it from. But the frag looks otherwise healthy. You can see good polyp extension throughout. Polyp is a more reliable sign of coral health than color. If the polyps are out, the coral is generally happy. The only exception to this is during an RTN event. The polyps will remain out, but the tissue will be sloughing off at the same time. You do not have this happening at all.
Just keep things stable. If anything, I would bet your lighting is a bit too bright and too white. I would do a heavier blue spectrum to help prevent this. From the pics, it looks like your lights are very white. Acros don't like this and it will cause some lighter colors.

The pic that I posted before [under highly white lights] was when I turned 'all on' on my AI prime in order to show the coral on my camera without a heavy blue tint [my phone doesn't like blue]

I was also slightly confused by the receeding color [turning white] but still having the polyps out!
 

hatfielj

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
2,321
Reaction score
1,938
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The pic that I posted before [under highly white lights] was when I turned 'all on' on my AI prime in order to show the coral on my camera without a heavy blue tint [my phone doesn't like blue]

I was also slightly confused by the receeding color [turning white] but still having the polyps out!
Understandable. Corals can definitely have white tips when they are growing. They can definitely bleach too, but when they do it's usually the entire coral all at once. You just have to be careful with LEDs because they are very focused light and can be too much for most corals, especially if not very carefully acclimated. Most people who run successful SPS tanks with LEDs use an almost all blue spectrum and keep the lights fairly dim. In such a small tank with very shallow water, you need to be especially careful.
Good job though on your first acros. I think you'll be successful seeing how good your parameters are so far.
 
OP
OP
Reef of Fillory

Reef of Fillory

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
637
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Understandable. Corals can definitely have white tips when they are growing. They can definitely bleach too, but when they do it's usually the entire coral all at once. You just have to be careful with LEDs because they are very focused light and can be too much for most corals, especially if not very carefully acclimated. Most people who run successful SPS tanks with LEDs use an almost all blue spectrum and keep the lights fairly dim. In such a small tank with very shallow water, you need to be especially careful.
Good job though on your first acros. I think you'll be successful seeing how good your parameters are so far.


I appreciate the kind words, I have dropped my light intensity through acclimation mode until I can get into the system and tone down the settings. I wish AI would give a master slider that allows you to use a pre-set program [like the one i'm using] but tone them down. I have had success with nutrient levels so far in this hobby [typically too low, and have had to dose], so i'm hoping not to starve anything out in this system.

One of the reasons i've been hesitant about lower light is due to my BTA [i've never had a BTA, but keep reading about not enough light killing them, etc.]
 

wmwesty

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
50
Reaction score
32
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Good morning,

Noticed yesterday that there seemed to be more white on my new SPS than there was when I got it [growth tips I was assuming].

Today, half of the stick is white and completely dead. One of my other SPS which never took well to my tank [was a rich green color, turned dark green and now is 80% white and bare].

I am at work now, but realized I probably should have removed both of them.

Levels:
ALK: 195 ppm
CAL: 370 ppm
Phosphate: .02 ppm
Mag: 1450 ppm
Nitrate: 5 ppm

I just adjusted down my refugium light to help bring nutrient levels up [phosphate]

Tank is a 13.5 gallon EVO with two misbar percula clownfish, a BTA and some softies/chalices, acans, zoas etc.


I will post pictures shortly - I still saw poly extension on the white portions of the top SPS yesterday, my lights don't turn on before I leave for the day but there was not as much white yesterday.


Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated!

This was right after getting the coral [1 day later] - you can see the color of the tall skinny one, and on the right side of the picture you can see the small, stubby one in the rocks -not very clearly though]
77d94764794968cd0cd59f7a26cf0dd4.jpg


Here's with the whites on, you can see both corals in question

c39284dac4308938896516c96f094611.jpg



Here's another similar to the first one, but with whites on

f58a67bcadf9e1e8eb0098bad869d213.jpg


Here's a picture of the coral this morning with no lights on. two sprouts on the base are completely white, and the tips are turning white towards the main stalk

1c47bbc1cb3121127b16a31d6d90b027.jpg
Almost looks like they have been touching each over and got stung !!!
 
OP
OP
Reef of Fillory

Reef of Fillory

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
637
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Almost looks like they have been touching each over and got stung !!!

I had that thought about the tall skinny one in the center, but the only thing around it is that purple coral with the pink mouths. With that said, I haven't seen any tentacles/stingers out of that coral since getting it [just the little mouths]

Is this a coral that would/should have stingers? I honestly don't know what it even is [I'm thinking a chalice]?
 

melev

Avid Hobbyist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
2,141
Reaction score
1,623
Location
Ft Worth, Tx
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
You talked about simple dosers. I'm using some by Icecap that are stand alone. You can set them to dose x ml per session, and you can dictate how frequently (or infrequently) with a push of the buttons. Super easy to use, and don't need anything extra. The master pump is $90, the slave units (if you wanted more than one) plug into the master and are $85 each.

I agree kalkwasser isn't ideal for such a tiny tank. Your evaporation rate isn't typical like a larger tank, and that affects how much is entering the system at once. For Nanos, temperature and salinity are the two biggest challenges to overcome. The rest of the parameters are maintained with dosing.

The corals you showed up don't look bad at all. The one you tossed 0ut - I'd hold off on throwing anything out until people in this thread have had a chance to chime in and give you their input. Even if a coral is dying, that doesn't mean 100% of it will die. All you need is a little bit to survive to start a new growth pattern from those mere polyps.

I know your light is in acclimation mode. How long is the photoperiod per day? It may be running too long.

shadowcaster-polyps-ooo.jpg
 
OP
OP
Reef of Fillory

Reef of Fillory

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
637
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
You talked about simple dosers. I'm using some by Icecap that are stand alone. You can set them to dose x ml per session, and you can dictate how frequently (or infrequently) with a push of the buttons. Super easy to use, and don't need anything extra. The master pump is $90, the slave units (if you wanted more than one) plug into the master and are $85 each.

I agree kalkwasser isn't ideal for such a tiny tank. Your evaporation rate isn't typical like a larger tank, and that affects how much is entering the system at once. For Nanos, temperature and salinity are the two biggest challenges to overcome. The rest of the parameters are maintained with dosing.

The corals you showed up don't look bad at all. The one you tossed 0ut - I'd hold off on throwing anything out until people in this thread have had a chance to chime in and give you their input. Even if a coral is dying, that doesn't mean 100% of it will die. All you need is a little bit to survive to start a new growth pattern from those mere polyps.

I know your light is in acclimation mode. How long is the photoperiod per day? It may be running too long.

shadowcaster-polyps-ooo.jpg


It's surprising to see you post on my thread, You're the guy I watch on YouTube!

I got approval from the wife to buy a ReefKeeper setup and 3 BRS dosing pumps from fellow people on the forums, so those should be here this weekend or early next week.


Pulled this word for word from my build thread [posted just now]:


upload_2018-3-28_21-27-27-png.709996


I have been running it on acclimation mode, but after some thoughts from fellow R2R'ers, I think that the intensity got too high [towards the end of the acclimation period]

I'm going to work on toning each part of the light schedule down, but will probably use the same idea [ramp up with a relief period, then ramp up etc.]

I might go 50-60% on the current values as my "normal" lighting

Ramp up starts around 10:00am, and ramp down is completed by around 10:30

upload_2018-3-28_21-32-29-png.710001





The light was in acclimation mode, but I just realized that the acclimation period was coming to an end, so the intensities were definitely approaching the stated values. Unfortunately it's too late for one of those SPS, but i've stuck it out with the skinny on in the pictures.

My BTA seems to respond better [bubbled-up] under lower intensity lighting [stretching tentacles and "spreading out more" under higher intensities]

Here's a video taken about an hour ago [displaying my Hydor flow reflector, but I do a quick once-over on the tank]






By the way - I don't try to negotiate coral prices either!

And i've clicked that Bell Icon!
 

melev

Avid Hobbyist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
2,141
Reaction score
1,623
Location
Ft Worth, Tx
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Everything looks good to me. I'd suggest shortening the light period by a couple of hours, but other than that you are on the right track.

Don't be surprised; I was wearing my R2R shirt on youtube a few days ago. Remember? Thanks for clicking the bell. :)
 

mcarroll

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
13,802
Reaction score
7,971
Location
Virginia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Lux meter will give you the rest of the data you need. I havent seen mention of light measurements from tge old or new systems.

Alk swings can be bad but light shock is at least as bad.

If you dont have a meter, they are free or cheap to get – what are you waiting for?? ;)

https://reefsuccess.com/2016/09/06/beginners-lux/
 
OP
OP
Reef of Fillory

Reef of Fillory

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
637
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Lux meter will give you the rest of the data you need. I havent seen mention of light measurements from tge old or new systems.

Alk swings can be bad but light shock is at least as bad.

If you dont have a meter, they are free or cheap to get – what are you waiting for?? ;)

https://reefsuccess.com/2016/09/06/beginners-lux/

I did look at the LUX meters, but none of the affordable ones are waterproof =( and I'm not willing to risk my smartphone underwater =D
 

mcarroll

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
13,802
Reaction score
7,971
Location
Virginia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Not real concerns – did you check out the link?

Post when you get some resdings – can you still get a reading off the old lights too?
 
OP
OP
Reef of Fillory

Reef of Fillory

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
637
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Not real concerns – did you check out the link?

Post when you get some resdings – can you still get a reading off the old lights too?

This tank was started with new lights and new corals [I sold off all of the old corals before deciding to start up this tank]. The corals came from a guy who sells locally and runs multiple Black Boxes [Mars Aqua probably] over is frag systems.
* I can set the lights back to the previous intensities to see what numbers it was putting off before I dimmed them down by 50%

With that said, I have used the AI Prime for essentially the entire time on this tank.

I did check out the link, but it doesn't say that it can be used under water. I also found the mentioned model on Amazon and it doesn't say whether it can, or can't be used under water. It only mentions activities such as school projects, photography etc.

https://www.amazon.com/HDE-LX-1010B-Digital-Luxmeter-Display/dp/B00992B29I
 

ReeferBean

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
1,342
Reaction score
861
Location
Orange, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'll give that a shot tonight, for now the ATO is turned off until I figure it out, i'll manually top off.

I don't think there's a doser that doesn't require a controller, that will add in kalk/ATO slowly enough? [one that isn't real expensive at least]
And if I were to buy a "fancy" doser, i'd probably just go with 2-part

There are lots of stand alone dosers that have on board controllers. I may not be understanding your comment though.

2 part is easier and less messy than kalk. Eshopps, Aqua Medic, GHL, Bubble Magus all seem to have decent reviews. Just depends on your budget. I used the GHL for several years.

I think your tank just needs time to settle down. Playing with fire not dipping that frag though.
 
OP
OP
Reef of Fillory

Reef of Fillory

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
637
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
There are lots of stand alone dosers that have on board controllers. I may not be understanding your comment though.

2 part is easier and less messy than kalk. Eshopps, Aqua Medic, GHL, Bubble Magus all seem to have decent reviews. Just depends on your budget. I used the GHL for several years.

I think your tank just needs time to settle down. Playing with fire not dipping that frag though.


Going to go with BRS dosers and a ReefKeeper Lite
 

madweazl

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
4,110
Reaction score
5,091
Location
Virginia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This tank was started with new lights and new corals [I sold off all of the old corals before deciding to start up this tank]. The corals came from a guy who sells locally and runs multiple Black Boxes [Mars Aqua probably] over is frag systems.
* I can set the lights back to the previous intensities to see what numbers it was putting off before I dimmed them down by 50%

With that said, I have used the AI Prime for essentially the entire time on this tank.

I did check out the link, but it doesn't say that it can be used under water. I also found the mentioned model on Amazon and it doesn't say whether it can, or can't be used under water. It only mentions activities such as school projects, photography etc.

https://www.amazon.com/HDE-LX-1010B-Digital-Luxmeter-Display/dp/B00992B29I

They arent submersible, he was just stating that it isnt important to get the reading under water at this point.
 

mcarroll

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
13,802
Reaction score
7,971
Location
Virginia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
And maybe I didn't mention this detail on the post I linked (but hope I did!), but your phone in a ziplock bag IS waterproof if you really wanted those underwater measurements. Some do that, but I've been at this a while and have yet to need more than surface measurements. Check out past posts by clicking this tag: #lux (need to be on the web view I think)

I would suggest more than a cellphone app in the long run though. Nice for now, but a $10-$20 dedicated handheld meter like my LX-1010B is better and almost a no-brainer. (And also works with the ziplock.)
 

madweazl

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
4,110
Reaction score
5,091
Location
Virginia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dont be skurd! Took this with an S7 under water about a year ago. Shot quite a few under water but did get a moisture detection once. Havent tried it with the G6.
30329116506_930a286676_b.jpg

34153067670_5d76bab62b_h.jpg
 
Back
Top