Trying SPS, bleached white overnight / 2 days

[Reef of Fillory]

Dont be skurd! Took this with an S7 under water about a year ago. Shot quite a few under water but did get a moisture detection once. Havent tried it with the G6.

Haha, I do have the S8+ but have already had a swelling battery which made me send it in for warranty work. Not sure if I have a properly sealed phone now [warranty replacement, not factory sealed]

 

[Reef of Fillory]

The original SPS has seemed to regained it's color, but it hasn't shown any PE [even at night] since. I have seen very very little green PE a couple of times, but nothing substantial or for very long.

I have also since added some more SPS to my tank, and all of the new corals are showing a lot of PE

Parameters:

CA 410
ALK 8.8-9.2
Phosphate 0.02
Nitrate 2-5
Temp sits from 78.5-79
Mag is typically around 1350

I have a Sicce 1.0 return with two nozzles on it, along with a hydor 425 in a 10 gallon tank [excluding sump volume]

SPS are under AI Prime HD+

set to:

Currently in a 4 week acclimation mode from 77% of max values [above - current] to 100% on May 17th.


Here's a full view of my lighting schedule

 

[mcarroll]

The original SPS has seemed to regained it's color, but it hasn't shown any PE [even at night] since. I have seen very very little green PE a couple of times, but nothing substantial or for very long.

I have also since added some more SPS to my tank, and all of the new corals are showing a lot of PE

It's good to see some improvement....remember that damage can take months to repair, especially if conditions aren't ideal. So have patience and keep making improvements wherever they seem to be called for. :)

Phosphate 0.02

Hopefully I'm not repeating myself, but this is another thing you could make a small adjustment to....0.02 ppm is not zero, but it can be limiting.

If corals are stressed and have a higher than usual demand, then they may be effectively PO4-starved even at 0.02 ppm.

Consider raising PO4 by dosing or some other method. (Dosing is most effective and most precise, but not always the only way.)

I have a Sicce 1.0 return with two nozzles on it, along with a hydor 425 in a 10 gallon tank

Lights and nutrients are two possible source of stress, but too little flow is another.

Low flow will restrict nutrient uptake, respiration and waste removal from corals, etc – a whole range of factors.

Is your flow strong enough to move the occasional sand grain on your sand bed?

 

[Reef of Fillory]

It's good to see some improvement....remember that damage can take months to repair, especially if conditions aren't ideal. So have patience and keep making improvements wherever they seem to be called for. :)



Hopefully I'm not repeating myself, but this is another thing you could make a small adjustment to....0.02 ppm is not zero, but it can be limiting.

If corals are stressed and have a higher than usual demand, then they may be effectively PO4-starved even at 0.02 ppm.

Consider raising PO4 by dosing or some other method. (Dosing is most effective and most precise, but not always the only way.)



Lights and nutrients are two possible source of stress, but too little flow is another.

Low flow will restrict nutrient uptake, respiration and waste removal from corals, etc – a whole range of factors.

Is your flow strong enough to move the occasional sand grain on your sand bed?

I really appreciate you taking the time to read/respond!!

I have the hydor at the back of the tank, and the two nozzles pointing from the back to the front glass as well.

My sand does get moved occasionally, but i've placed the powerhead higher to avoid moving the sand.

I am assuming 80% efficiency from the Hydor stated values =340 gph from the powerhead, and another 200 gph from the Sicce return pump for ~540 gph in the tank, or ~45x turnover. Should I be shooting for higher?

I have been throwing back and forth the idea of buying a used MP10, or buying a new Jebao PP4 from Amazon or similar [Controllable, wave modes, etc.]

I'm not sure if the MP10 is a better value, and I would like to keep my powerhead on the back divider for the tank as well, which would rule out the MP10 - it would have to go on the front of the display.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

Also, i've just purchased a second AI Prime [non-hd] and am planning a hanging solution to get it over the tank as well.

I feel like my tanks current stock of corals is enough for me, so i'm just riding it out waiting for growth now, no plans to add more pieces unless something really jumps out at me.

That being said, i'm planning to acclimate my tank to higher PAR levels/intensity over a 4 week period once I get the second light mounted.

 

[mcarroll]

My sand does get moved occasionally, but i've placed the powerhead higher to avoid moving the sand.

Possible your fliw is fine then...you just have to know how consistent that level of intensity is around the tank.

I would forget the turnover numbers once you've got your flow running.

If you decide to add to or upgrade your flow I'd consider two of Tunze's smaller nanostreams.

Their design is MUCH more flexible so you'll have way more potential mounting options for them vs what you have or what you're considering.

That being said, i'm planning to acclimate my tank to higher PAR levels/intensity

I'm not sure I'd advocate for that since it seems like current levels are plenty. (Do you have some PAR or lux readings for the existing setup?)

Instead, use the second light to get more complete coverage. Use at least a lux meter to make sure overall intensity does not increase.

Get your PO4 levels up to >0.03 ppm before doing ANY more light changes. Consider a Hanna Checker to get better test results.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

Possible your fliw is fine then...you just have to know how consistent that level of intensity is around the tank.

I would forget the turnover numbers once you've got your flow running.

If you decide to add to or upgrade your flow I'd consider two of Tunze's smaller nanostreams.

Their design is MUCH more flexible so you'll have way more potential mounting options for them vs what you have or what you're considering.



I'm not sure I'd advocate for that since it seems like current levels are plenty. (Do you have some PAR or lux readings for the existing setup?)

Instead, use the second light to get more complete coverage. Use at least a lux meter to make sure overall intensity does not increase.

Get your PO4 levels up to >0.03 ppm before doing ANY more light changes. Consider a Hanna Checker to get better test results.

I'm currently using a Hanna checker to measure the phosphates, I based my assumption of increasing my light intensity based off of BRS's PAR meter testing of the AI Primes

I've got another post in the lighting section about light intensities and my plan to replicates the AB+ settings that BRS found
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/help-with-tuning-ai-primes.382296/

 

[mcarroll]

Use either a lux or PAR meter to measure your lights.

I wouldnt make any changes without doing that first.

Lux is fine to start with since you can download an app right now to get started and a handheld meter only costs $10-20 and is better.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

I've got a lux meter coming from Amazon.

Had a Spike of nitrate and phosphates from dosing without measuring quantities.

Went from 3 nitrate to 25 overnight

Went from .03 phosphate to 2.5 overnight

Did a 5 gallon water change with what water I had around, and got nitrates down to around 15 and phosphates down to 1.5

I got a second piece of the sps that I threw away last time, and overnight it has turned to this: this is what it looked like when I threw it away before.


The first picture was last night, and the other this morning, I'm thinking that this piece is a goner?

 

[mcarroll]

Had a Spike of nitrate and phosphates from dosing without measuring quantities.

Went from 3 nitrate to 25 overnight

Went from .03 phosphate to 2.5 overnight

Did a 5 gallon water change with what water I had around, and got nitrates down to around 15 and phosphates down to 1.5

Was this from before or after the water change?

Did the spikes of NO3 and PO4 happen at the same time, or was it different nights?

Would you say this coral is in hi/low ligth and hi/low flow compared to others that seem unaffected?

I've seen folks "od" like that with no ill effects before, so trying to consider the details of the situation is all.

 

[mcarroll]

Had to add a question.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

Was this from before or after the water change?

Did the spikes of NO3 and PO4 happen at the same time, or was it different nights?

Would you say this coral is in hi/low ligth and hi/low flow compared to others that seem unaffected?

I've seen folks "od" like that with no ill effects before, so trying to consider the details of the situation is all.

This was all from two nights ago, I "eyeballed" nitrate and phosphate doses like I used to do in my biocube, but it was way too much.

The low values were before two nights ago, then I dosed nitrate and phosphate (two nights ago), then the coral bottom half turned white (one night ago)

Then I did a water change (last night) to get the values down

and then this morning the entire coral is white with all the flesh gone/falling off

My rockwork is pretty flat, I'd say it's got equal flow and light when compared to all the other pieces

The second picture here was 4 days ago
I gotta figure out how to better take pictures in the tank!

 

[mcarroll]

That's also a confirmation that other corals (so far at least) seem fine?

 

[Reef of Fillory]

That's also a confirmation that other corals (so far at least) seem fine?

Yeah, most are still showing polyp extension (less than before)

A couple seem to be losing their color and turning a darker/brown color, which I'm not sure would happen so quickly due to nutrients, but I also realized that I was using my acclimation mode on my lights incorrectly, and they were pretty low. I've got them ramping up over a few weeks now

 

[mcarroll]

Having available nitrates without phosphates can be a big problem for corals, or other photosynthetics.

If this condition in the pics is related to the nutrient dosing (which appears to be the case) then this is what I'd have to say happened – in essence, phosphate starvation. Perhaps you dosed nitrates first and then there was a delay before dosing phosphates, or it may relate to differences in uptake rates of one vs the other to the coral rather than something specific about how you dosed. I'm positive that any current/pre-existing stresses weighed in as well...and that coral is from a group that tends to be more sensitive to change in general.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

Having available nitrates without phosphates can be a big problem for corals, or other photosynthetics.

If this condition in the pics is related to the nutrient dosing (which appears to be the case) then this is what I'd have to say happened – in essence, phosphate starvation. Perhaps you dosed nitrates first and then there was a delay before dosing phosphates, or it may relate to differences in uptake rates of one vs the other to the coral rather than something specific about how you dosed. I'm positive that any current/pre-existing stresses weighed in as well...and that coral is from a group that tends to be more sensitive to change in general.

Yeah I dosed concentrated nitrate and phosphate at the same time that night.

At the beginning of this thread, that same coral bleached out the same exact way on me, and I was not dosing any nutrients at that time.

I went back to the same"guy" and got a second frag from the same colony. I'm going to avoid getting this same colony a third time now!

 

[mcarroll]

A couple seem to be losing their color and turning a darker/brown color, which I'm not sure would happen so quickly due to nutrients,

It can, but I'm not sure I'd worry about it....definitely let things stablize and don't let nutrients re-bottom-out when things get back to normal. ;) (And measure from now on, right??)

I also realized that I was using my acclimation mode on my lights incorrectly, and they were pretty low. I've got them ramping up over a few weeks now

Do you know how much light – as in lux or PAR units – you're giving the tank right now?

(Depending what your current measurements are...) I think I'd consider making adjustments to get your lights to around 20,000 lux (or less) and just let that be your peak for a while.

I'm going to avoid getting this same colony a third time now!

I think once you have the tank stabilized and are past this you would be able to try again with more success. Those corals just like more stability....so this is more like bad timing than bad coral. :)

 

[Reef of Fillory]

It can, but I'm not sure I'd worry about it....definitely let things stablize and don't let nutrients re-bottom-out when things get back to normal. ;) (And measure from now on, right??)



Do you know how much light – as in lux or PAR units – you're giving the tank right now?

(Depending what your current measurements are...) I think I'd consider making adjustments to get your lights to around 20,000 lux (or less) and just let that be your peak for a while.



I think once you have the tank stabilized and are past this you would be able to try again with more success. Those corals just like more stability....so this is more like bad timing than bad coral. :)

According to my phone and lux meter app, I've got 22k under the front light, 20k between the two lights, and 18k under the back light right now

I do have a lux meter coming from Amazon

 

[mcarroll]

I'd just leave the lights where they are and only do increases after things have settled – and only as needed.

Can you post some more tank views? Looks like that pump is off to the side, but the corals are in the middle....it's hard to judge from the photo what flow should be like there. Are any of the corals getting hit at least somewhat directly by the pump? (More photos would help....maybe a top-down? As well as a full front?)

 

[mcarroll]

Is that tank 22" wide x 11 x 12? Seems like those lights should need to be at around 5-6" from the water to keep all the light in the tank. (90º lenses?) Having a reef-lit tank is better than having a reef-lit room....or at least my wife thinks so. If yours agrees with mine, lowering the light would help a lot. :D