Two Clown Died overnight after 3 weeks

[liamelias]

Hi guys. My first 2 clown ever just passed this morning. Took it a little harder than I thought. I feel terrible I could’ve prevented this. I have a 20G AIO tank with filter floss, 2 sponges, carbon and return pump. My tank cycled with Dr tims for 3 weeks. I then introduced my clown pair and a hermit. Clowns were doing great, ate twice a day their pellets and copepods every 3 days. 2 weeks later I got 2 cerith, 2 nessarius and a cleaner shrimp. Everyone was doing great. A week later my tank started getting this browning algae. My LFS suggested it was mostly my ugly phase and could be diatoms. They suggested to vacuum the sand, lower my AI prime lights from 12 hours to 8 and clean the glass and rocks. They also gave me a fighting conch to help. I did all of this and diatoms didn’t come back. And a week later my two clowns died overnight without any signs of disease. The night before they passed, i noticed one was swimming in place by the bottom of the sand and was looking a little pale. But i thought it was the light. The other was swimming the surface. I can’t help but wonder how could I have messed up. They were happy and healthy looking and all of a sudden both die at the same time.
Water parameters:
Ammonia: 0 (0.1 after their death) RedSea test
Nitrites: 0 (0.2 after their death) Red Sea test
Nitrates: 4 Red Sea test
PH: 7.9 Red Sea test
ALK: 7.8 Hanna
Salinity: 35 ppm
Phos: 4.3 Hanna
Cal: 360
Mag: 1200 Aquaforest

i know it’s difficult to diagnose my issues but any insight would be helpful. I feel very discouraged to get another fish. It really took a toll on me even though i only had them for 3 weeks. May just keep to working on my calcium, magnesium, phos and PH to raise corals.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hi guys. My first 2 clown ever just passed this morning. Took it a little harder than I thought. I feel terrible I could’ve prevented this. I have a 20G AIO tank with filter floss, 2 sponges, carbon and return pump. My tank cycled with Dr tims for 3 weeks. I then introduced my clown pair and a hermit. Clowns were doing great, ate twice a day their pellets and copepods every 3 days. 2 weeks later I got 2 cerith, 2 nessarius and a cleaner shrimp. Everyone was doing great. A week later my tank started getting this browning algae. My LFS suggested it was mostly my ugly phase and could be diatoms. They suggested to vacuum the sand, lower my AI prime lights from 12 hours to 8 and clean the glass and rocks. They also gave me a fighting conch to help. I did all of this and diatoms didn’t come back. And a week later my two clowns died overnight without any signs of disease. The night before they passed, i noticed one was swimming in place by the bottom of the sand and was looking a little pale. But i thought it was the light. The other was swimming the surface. I can’t help but wonder how could I have messed up. They were happy and healthy looking and all of a sudden both die at the same time.
Water parameters:
Ammonia: 0 (0.1 after their death) RedSea test
Nitrites: 0 (0.2 after their death) Red Sea test
Nitrates: 4 Red Sea test
PH: 7.9 Red Sea test
ALK: 7.8 Hanna
Salinity: 35 ppm
Phos: 4.3 Hanna
Cal: 360
Mag: 1200 Aquaforest

i know it’s difficult to diagnose my issues but any insight would be helpful. I feel very discouraged to get another fish. It really took a toll on me even though i only had them for 3 weeks. May just keep to working on my calcium, magnesium, phos and PH to raise corals.

The water parameters look okay, and I can't see much from the photos.

What happened the day before they died?
DId you have any visitors over, any pets in the house, any chemicals or bug sprays used in the house?

It is most likely to be some environmental issue.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Welcome to the forum! Sorry it’s under these circumstances. Fwiw I lost my first saltwater fish too.

Post death photos are hard to ID. Were the fish breathing fast? Scratching against rocks? Swimming into flow?
My guess is some disease killed them - likely brook or velvet. All of your parameters are safe for fish, and chemical issues would typically affect inverts as well.
I would leave the tank fishless for 60 days (to eliminate any possible disease) and try again. New fish should be quarantined to keep disease out of the tank.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi guys. My first 2 clown ever just passed this morning. Took it a little harder than I thought. I feel terrible I could’ve prevented this. I have a 20G AIO tank with filter floss, 2 sponges, carbon and return pump. My tank cycled with Dr tims for 3 weeks. I then introduced my clown pair and a hermit. Clowns were doing great, ate twice a day their pellets and copepods every 3 days. 2 weeks later I got 2 cerith, 2 nessarius and a cleaner shrimp. Everyone was doing great. A week later my tank started getting this browning algae. My LFS suggested it was mostly my ugly phase and could be diatoms. They suggested to vacuum the sand, lower my AI prime lights from 12 hours to 8 and clean the glass and rocks. They also gave me a fighting conch to help. I did all of this and diatoms didn’t come back. And a week later my two clowns died overnight without any signs of disease. The night before they passed, i noticed one was swimming in place by the bottom of the sand and was looking a little pale. But i thought it was the light. The other was swimming the surface. I can’t help but wonder how could I have messed up. They were happy and healthy looking and all of a sudden both die at the same time.
Water parameters:
Ammonia: 0 (0.1 after their death) RedSea test
Nitrites: 0 (0.2 after their death) Red Sea test
Nitrates: 4 Red Sea test
PH: 7.9 Red Sea test
ALK: 7.8 Hanna
Salinity: 35 ppm
Phos: 4.3 Hanna
Cal: 360
Mag: 1200 Aquaforest

i know it’s difficult to diagnose my issues but any insight would be helpful. I feel very discouraged to get another fish. It really took a toll on me even though i only had them for 3 weeks. May just keep to working on my calcium, magnesium, phos and PH to raise corals.

Sorry to hear and my suspicion is what typically can happen during the early tank stages- Spikes in either ammonia or nitrate or both.
With phosphate of 4.3, are you using tap water from the faucet or RODI water ?
What is your tank temperature?

Also to save time, you do not need to be too concerned with Nitrites unless above 100

 

[Cyanohater]

Sorry to hear and my suspicion is what typically can happen during the early tank stages- Spikes in either ammonia or nitrate or both.
With phosphate of 4.3, are you using tap water from the faucet or RODI water ?
What is your tank temperature?

Also to save time, you do not need to be too concerned with Nitrites unless above 100

this is what I think, even though it's a large tank I still think that something happened with a swing. We all learn most of the time the best thing to learn from is mistakes and try again. I recommend you follow the BRS TV Beginner guy. He gives great advice. Don't fully rely on experts it will be hard. The best thing I've found is to learn from my mistakes (still do take advice though, use your judgement)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi guys. My first 2 clown ever just passed this morning. Took it a little harder than I thought. I feel terrible I could’ve prevented this. I have a 20G AIO tank with filter floss, 2 sponges, carbon and return pump. My tank cycled with Dr tims for 3 weeks. I then introduced my clown pair and a hermit. Clowns were doing great, ate twice a day their pellets and copepods every 3 days. 2 weeks later I got 2 cerith, 2 nessarius and a cleaner shrimp. Everyone was doing great. A week later my tank started getting this browning algae. My LFS suggested it was mostly my ugly phase and could be diatoms. They suggested to vacuum the sand, lower my AI prime lights from 12 hours to 8 and clean the glass and rocks. They also gave me a fighting conch to help. I did all of this and diatoms didn’t come back. And a week later my two clowns died overnight without any signs of disease. The night before they passed, i noticed one was swimming in place by the bottom of the sand and was looking a little pale. But i thought it was the light. The other was swimming the surface. I can’t help but wonder how could I have messed up. They were happy and healthy looking and all of a sudden both die at the same time.
Water parameters:
Ammonia: 0 (0.1 after their death) RedSea test
Nitrites: 0 (0.2 after their death) Red Sea test
Nitrates: 4 Red Sea test
PH: 7.9 Red Sea test
ALK: 7.8 Hanna
Salinity: 35 ppm
Phos: 4.3 Hanna
Cal: 360
Mag: 1200 Aquaforest

i know it’s difficult to diagnose my issues but any insight would be helpful. I feel very discouraged to get another fish. It really took a toll on me even though i only had them for 3 weeks. May just keep to working on my calcium, magnesium, phos and PH to raise corals.

Welcome to Reef2Reef

Sorry about your clowns. Do you think the hermit crab caused their fin damage after they died? That is pretty severe, no torn fins prior to death?

My guess here is velvet disease - the only symptom you’ll see is hovering in water currents and rapid breathing, followed rather quickly by death. Rapid breathing is a relative thing and most new aquarists miss it.

Jay

 

[liamelias]

The water parameters look okay, and I can't see much from the photos.

What happened the day before they died?
DId you have any visitors over, any pets in the house, any chemicals or bug sprays used in the house?

It is most likely to be some environmental issue.

Thank you for the response. The day before they died was pretty normal. I fed them once because i missed one feeding because of work. Other than that nothing out of the ordinary. We have two cats but they have never acknowledged the tank. It’s also very out of reach. No bug sprays. It’s very bizarre since all my snails crab and shrimp seem to be doing fine

 

[liamelias]

Welcome to the forum! Sorry it’s under these circumstances. Fwiw I lost my first saltwater fish too.

Post death photos are hard to ID. Were the fish breathing fast? Scratching against rocks? Swimming into flow?
My guess is some disease killed them - likely brook or velvet. All of your parameters are safe for fish, and chemical issues would typically affect inverts as well.
I would leave the tank fishless for 60 days (to eliminate any possible disease) and try again. New fish should be quarantined to keep disease out of the tank.

Thank you for the welcome! I’ve found these forums extremely useful. Really sad but hoping to learn and do better. The only weird behavior is that they would hang by the surface occasionally. My powerhead is aimed at the surface to help with gas exchange so don’t think there is lack of oxygen as I’m conscious of my bioload for a 20 gallon.
I would like to point out I noticed a white stringy poop several times. As a newbie i thought it was just their normal poop but I’ve read that it’s not normal? Again that stringy white poop has been a thing since I got them.
i am most definitely waiting a long time before getting new fish. But hoping to learn

 

[liamelias]

Sorry to hear and my suspicion is what typically can happen during the early tank stages- Spikes in either ammonia or nitrate or both.
With phosphate of 4.3, are you using tap water from the faucet or RODI water ?
What is your tank temperature?

Also to save time, you do not need to be too concerned with Nitrites unless above 100

Thank you. I closely monitor the parameters. I tried purchasing the bundles from BRS so I had sensitive and accurate tests. Never noticed a spike. Only today after their death. They were probably dead for about 10 hours, which I'm not sure if it’s long enough to cause an ammonia spike. I’m using RODI water from the store for top offs. I have a Tunze ATO as well. My tank temperature is steady at 78 F. I find those phosphates to be high as well but thought it was just the food

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you. I closely monitor the parameters. I tried purchasing the bundles from BRS so I had sensitive and accurate tests. Never noticed a spike. Only today after their death. They were probably dead for about 10 hours, which I'm not sure if it’s long enough to cause an ammonia spike. I’m using RODI water from the store for top offs. I have a Tunze ATO as well. My tank temperature is steady at 78 F. I find those phosphates to be high as well but thought it was just the food

Often with spikes is they trigger themselves and then drop and often when a test is done, it will be lower than what it may have spike to previously

 

[liamelias]

Welcome to Reef2Reef

Sorry about your clowns. Do you think the hermit crab caused their fin damage after they died? That is pretty severe, no torn fins prior to death?

My guess here is velvet disease - the only symptom you’ll see is hovering in water currents and rapid breathing, followed rather quickly by death. Rapid breathing is a relative thing and most new aquarists miss it.

Jay

Thank you for the warm welcome!
When I woke up, my first sight was actually the hermit crab picking at the dead clown. Really tough seeing that but, yes, I also assume my nessarius got to the other fish as well. They must have died in the middle of the night. No prior torn fins or visible spots or anything out of the ordinary, besides a white stringy poop for weeks (which i thought was normal) but come to find out its not. But very odd they both died at the same time. They did always spend a lot of time but the surface, thought it could have been lack of oxygen but i have my powerhead aimed at the surface

 

[Sharkbait19]

Thank you for the welcome! I’ve found these forums extremely useful. Really sad but hoping to learn and do better. The only weird behavior is that they would hang by the surface occasionally. My powerhead is aimed at the surface to help with gas exchange so don’t think there is lack of oxygen as I’m conscious of my bioload for a 20 gallon.
I would like to point out I noticed a white stringy poop several times. As a newbie i thought it was just their normal poop but I’ve read that it’s not normal? Again that stringy white poop has been a thing since I got them.
i am most definitely waiting a long time before getting new fish. But hoping to learn

What have you been feeding? Mysis can cause the white poop.

 

[liamelias]

this is what I think, even though it's a large tank I still think that something happened with a swing. We all learn most of the time the best thing to learn from is mistakes and try again. I recommend you follow the BRS TV Beginner guy. He gives great advice. Don't fully rely on experts it will be hard. The best thing I've found is to learn from my mistakes (still do take advice though, use your judgement)

What have you been feeding? Mysis can cause the white poop.

I’ve been feeding the Hikari pellets and frozen copepods occasionally. They seemed to start ignoring the copepods though. They were too small for mysis per my LFS. I read somewhere that internal parasites could cause this stringy white poop perhaps?

 

[Sharkbait19]

It’s possible, but based on what I can see with the dead fish, you can rule out internal parasites. One of the hallmarks is that they are very thin upon death, as they would have been wasting away for a matter of days/weeks.