Two fish dead in 48 hours what gives?

[Ariellemcc]

#fishmedic
I had a morrish idol die last night and when we found him that morning he was drifting along the current in the tank unable to keep himself upright. So I pulled him out and placed him in a small tank with a heater and a bubbler to maybe give him a chance and eat some. He remained upside down the entire time he was in the small tank and he died about 12 hours later, upside down and sort of been in a crescent shape. (I know moorish idols are a difficult fish because of their eating but this guy ate like a champ so I know it wasn’t an eating problem.)
Now this morning, our clown fish(thought to be our female) was hiding in corners and being a bit feisty-er then normal which we didn’t think was too big of a deal. When we came home this evening she was on her side, tucked under the long, tentacle anemone, and it looks like she’s had scales ripped off, but it’s also unable to keep herself. I have pulled her out and placed her in the small tank(with clean water ).

We think the moorish idol may have died of a swim bladder problem from being beat on. And we think something hurt or clownfish because its miss a large amount of its scales and alway upside down.

We aren’t sure whats going on and could use advice. We are still fairly new to this. We know we are fighting some kind of ich. And have been giving metroplex and focus twice a day for a week and once a day the prior week.
75gallon tank with skimmer and canister filter
16 fish in total
2 Chromis, goby, 2 mollies, cleaner wrasse, fairy wrasse, fox face, vampire tang, baby hippo tang, 3 other clownfish, 2 damsels, rabbit fish

Please help any advice is much appreciated.

 

[blaxsun]

#fishmedic

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I had a morrish idol die last night and when we found him that morning he was drifting along the current in the tank unable to keep himself upright. So I pulled him out and placed him in a small tank with a heater and a bubbler to maybe give him a chance and eat some. He remained upside down the entire time he was in the small tank and he died about 12 hours later, upside down and sort of been in a crescent shape. (I know moorish idols are a difficult fish because of their eating but this guy ate like a champ so I know it wasn’t an eating problem.)
Now this morning, our clown fish(thought to be our female) was hiding in corners and being a bit feisty-er then normal which we didn’t think was too big of a deal. When we came home this evening she was on her side, tucked under the long, tentacle anemone, and it looks like she’s had scales ripped off, but it’s also unable to keep herself. I have pulled her out and placed her in the small tank(with clean water ).

We think the moorish idol may have died of a swim bladder problem from being beat on. And we think something hurt or clownfish because its miss a large amount of its scales and alway upside down.

We aren’t sure whats going on and could use advice. We are still fairly new to this. We know we are fighting some kind of ich. And have been giving metroplex and focus twice a day for a week and once a day the prior week.
75gallon tank with skimmer and canister filter
16 fish in total
2 Chromis, goby, 2 mollies, cleaner wrasse, fairy wrasse, fox face, vampire tang, baby hippo tang, 3 other clownfish, 2 damsels, rabbit fish

Please help any advice is much appreciated.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

The two fish losses may or may not be related, tough to say at this point.

The metroplex + Focus is often “prescribed” but it does NOT work unless you calculate the dose properly with a gram scale.

More information, pictures and video would really help. This post explains all that:

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Nemo&Friends]

You had 18 fish, some of them fairly big in a 75 G, I think that it is too many. From your description I think the clown probably died from aggression, and your Moorish idol may have too.
When the tank is too small and the fish too crowded you get a lot of stress and aggression.
I just checked and the size tank recommended for a vampire tang is 150 G, preferably 180G.
I would recommend you place a camera when you are not watching and film your fish to find out which one is the bully.

 

[Ariellemcc]

You had 18 fish, some of them fairly big in a 75 G, I think that it is too many. From your description I think the clown probably died from aggression, and your Moorish idol may have too.
When the tank is too small and the fish too crowded you get a lot of stress and aggression.
I just checked and the size tank recommended for a vampire tang is 150 G, preferably 180G.
I would recommend you place a camera when you are not watching and film your fish to find out which one is the bully.

Our fish are fairly small most under 4” and the vampire tang, foxface are the largest at 6” and the rabbit fish around 5”.
I run strip test and number are all normal. Salinity is dropped a little for possible ich Temp is raised a little around 80 for possible ich .

We are thinking the vampire tang is the bully but we were told they are peaceful fish.

 

[Sump Crab]

Idk. That’s a ton of fish for a 75 gallon

 

[blaxsun]

Idk. That’s a ton of fish for a 75 gallon

Yes and no. Depends on a lot of factors (filtration, hiding spots, etc.) That's a 4.6:1 ratio of water to fish (mine is 3.2:1 or less).

 

[Ariellemcc]

Yes and no. Depends on a lot of factors (filtration, hiding spots, etc.)

We leave lots of rocks with plenty of coves each fish seemed to claim a spot. Our filtration is a 125 coral life skimmer and a marine land c360 filter with a wave make i cant remember

 

[Idech]

I have to agree, too many fish will lead to aggression.

 

[blaxsun]

We leave lots of rocks with plenty of coves each fish seemed to claim a spot. Our filtration is a 125 coral life skimmer and a marine land c360 filter with a wave make i cant remember

I don't want to detract from your thread, but I do run a lot of stuff on my system: UV, ozone, GFO/carbon, zeo, fleece roller, tons of bio media, etc. Plus the rock scape has been crafted with lots of hiding spaces.

 

[Sump Crab]

Yes and no. Depends on a lot of factors (filtration, hiding spots, etc.) That's a 4.6:1 ratio of water to fish (mine is 3.2:1 or less).

Of course it depends on the stocking choices but this 75 had 4 clownfish 2 tangs, an idol, fox face and 4 damsels plus 8 others, that’s a lot of fish for a 75 lol. We aren’t taking about a ton of small fish. Those are some large and aggressive fish!

 

[Ariellemcc]

Of course it depends on the stocking choices but this 75 had 4 clownfish 2 tangs, an idol, fox face and 4 damsels plus 8 others, that’s a lot of fish for a 75 lol. We aren’t taking about a ton of small fish. Those are some large and aggressive fish!

We were told they were all friendly and non aggressive. Do we need to get another tang for some if the aggressive fish? Which ones are aggressive?

 

[blaxsun]

Of course it depends on the stocking choices but this 75 had 4 clownfish 2 tangs, an idol, fox face and 4 damsels plus 8 others, that’s a lot of fish for a 75 lol. We aren’t taking about a ton of small fish. Those are some large and aggressive fish!

Yeah, I see a few tang infractions - but I'm not going to narc him to the Tang Police...

 

[Sump Crab]

We were told they were all friendly and non aggressive. Do we need to get another tang for some if the aggressive fish? Which ones are aggressive?

Even if the fish are usually peaceful if you throw enough of them into a tiny glass box they will begin to fight or just feel cramped/ stressed.

If it were me I’d try and stay around 10 fish or less in a 75 depending on size of the species you choose. Only one pair of clownfish IMO unless you did the whole clown harem thing.

 

[Sump Crab]

Yeah, I see a few tang infractions - but I'm not going to narc him to the Tang Police...

I’m certainly not a tang police guy but 18 fish, including several large species plus multiple clowns and damsels is just asking for trouble.

 

[ninjamyst]

We were told they were all friendly and non aggressive. Do we need to get another tang for some if the aggressive fish? Which ones are aggressive?

It is important to do your own research vs relying on what your LFS or random people say about individual fish. A fish on its own may be fine but compatibility and tank size requirements are important. A simple google search on moorish idol reef tank results in several headlines saying how moorish idol is very hard to keep and require a very large tank. Before you buy any fish, google it first and read about it's tank size requirement, care level, and compatibility with other fish.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

It is important to do your own research vs relying on what your LFS or random people say about individual fish. A fish on its own may be fine but compatibility and tank size requirements are important. A simple google search on moorish idol reef tank results in several headlines saying how moorish idol is very hard to keep and require a very large tank. Before you buy any fish, google it first and read about it's tank size requirement, care level, and compatibility with other fish.

agree 100%, do your own research make and your decision based on as much info as possible, not what someone says

 

[Boreas_SA]

Temp is raised a little around 80 for possible ich .

This is also a potential issue, higher temps have lower dissolved oxygen, which does not help fish which are already struggling and a bit overcrowded. It also does nothing for controlling marine ich (Cryptocaryon), it only works on freshwater ich where they stop multiplying at higher temps.

 

[Crustaceon]

I've kept 24 smaller fish (2" max) in a 100g. Yes, some got aggressive, but it tended to be little territorial spats that lasted a day or two and was resolved within the community. In this case, I'd suspect bacterial infection to be the cause.

 

[Nemo&Friends]

I've kept 24 smaller fish (2" max) in a 100g. Yes, some got aggressive, but it tended to be little territorial spats that lasted a day or two and was resolved within the community. In this case, I'd suspect bacterial infection to be the cause.

Less than 2" fish are not the same than large fish. My foxface is probably equivalent to 4/5 these small fish and so is my hippo tang. OP has many large fish in a tank 25% smaller than yours.
Plus clown fish had clear signs of aggression.
Too crowded and too small a tank is never a good idea and increase stress and therefore problems.