Two fish dead in 48 hours what gives?

[Ariellemcc]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

The two fish losses may or may not be related, tough to say at this point.

The metroplex + Focus is often “prescribed” but it does NOT work unless you calculate the dose properly with a gram scale.

More information, pictures and video would really help. This post explains all that:

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

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Jay

July 3, 2023

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[jmichaelh7]

July 3, 2023

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That’s too bad that your fish are going through this. Good luck bud

as mentioned above maybe they can share some professional input that I can’t. We all learn from our mistakes , there is something you will learn and do better as a hobbyist

 

[Nano_Man]

I have close to 50 fish - zero quarantine (no issues). I don't want to turn this into a quarantine vs. no quarantine debate - just that there are different ways of doing things.

Yes correct and if people look at Paul B article on quarantine it makes you think. And after reading it myself I go more towards PaulB article .

 

[Jay Hemdal]

July 3, 2023

youtube.com

Can you get a video of the tank itself? I'd like to assess the remaining fish.

It looks like two different causes of death here. Neither of the causes are directly related to crowding.

The video of the moorish idol shows it is a small one, breathing slowly, but is thin and dark in coloration. That means it likely doesn't have a gill disease, so we can rule that out. I suspect that you had this fish for less than a month to six weeks or so? Small moorish idols don't have a good track record in captivity. The best ones came from Hawaii, but now that region is closed to collecting and dealers are getting these small ones from other countries, and they are just really delicate.

The clownfish was attacked by something. Either it died and the cleanup crew got to it, or more likely, another fish in the tank killed it. My suspects would be one of the other clowns or perhaps the damselfish. You may never see the actual aggression - while you are watching the fish, they stop fighting to watch you. One trick is to leave your phone recording the tank and then leave the room (or use a nanny cam).

Going forward, if you post some video of the whole tank, we can look to see of any other impending issues.......

Jay

 

[Ariellemcc]

Can you get a video of the tank itself? I'd like to assess the remaining fish.

It looks like two different causes of death here. Neither of the causes are directly related to crowding.

The video of the moorish idol shows it is a small one, breathing slowly, but is thin and dark in coloration. That means it likely doesn't have a gill disease, so we can rule that out. I suspect that you had this fish for less than a month to six weeks or so? Small moorish idols don't have a good track record in captivity. The best ones came from Hawaii, but now that region is closed to collecting and dealers are getting these small ones from other countries, and they are just really delicate.

The clownfish was attacked by something. Either it died and the cleanup crew got to it, or more likely, another fish in the tank killed it. My suspects would be one of the other clowns or perhaps the damselfish. You may never see the actual aggression - while you are watching the fish, they stop fighting to watch you. One trick is to leave your phone recording the tank and then leave the room (or use a nanny cam).

Going forward, if you post some video of the whole tank, we can look to see of any other impending issues.......

Jay

July 4, 2023

youtube.com

What do you think could be the cause of death in the idol?
This was about a week before moorish died. I had him about a month. He was eating decent prior. I know they dont do great but we had done lots of research and had considered since we set up the tank

 

[Jay Hemdal]

July 4, 2023

youtube.com

What do you think could be the cause of death in the idol?
This was about a week before moorish died. I had him about a month. He was eating decent prior. I know they dont do great but we had done lots of research and had considered since we set up the tank

That's pretty common with small moorish idols from SE Asia - they ship o.k., and even eat well, but they are skinny and just don't thrive. I don't know if it is just something with that species being delicate and not handling the supply chain well, or if they are collected with cyanide. My advice would be to avoid those fish.

Jay

p.s. - I'm basing this opinion on it not breathing fast in the video. Water quality issues and gill diseases would cause rapid breathing. The fish's fins were o.k., so I'm ruling out tankmate aggression for it.

 

[Ariellemcc]

That's pretty common with small moorish idols from SE Asia - they ship o.k., and even eat well, but they are skinny and just don't thrive. I don't know if it is just something with that species being delicate and not handling the supply chain well, or if they are collected with cyanide. My advice would be to avoid those fish.

Jay

p.s. - I'm basing this opinion on it not breathing fast in the video. Water quality issues and gill diseases would cause rapid breathing. The fish's fins were o.k., so I'm ruling out tankmate aggression for it.

I appreciate the advice. Do you think based on the video i have an over crowding problem?
What do you think killed the clownfish ? It was one of the largest clowns in the tank. Definitely one of the larger fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I appreciate the advice. Do you think based on the video i have an over crowding problem?
What do you think killed the clownfish ? It was one of the largest clowns in the tank. Definitely one of the larger fish.

That tank is more crowded than I would typically keep, except in quarantine/holding situations. Still, tank crowding is very subjective. The two largest factors are: tank decorations (your tank is very sparse) and fish size (your fish are small - for now). As long as dissolved oxygen levels and ammonia levels are being help properly, your biggest issue will be territorial problems, as well as what to do as the fish grow.

Fish size is a huge factor: you can put 20, 1" long tetras in a tank, but try putting one 20" catfish in the same tank!

Here is an excerpt from my fish swimming space article:


A common question faced by all aquarists is “what size aquarium do I need for the fish that I want to keep?” This article will help aquarists identify potential problems in terms of acquiring a fish that may outgrow their available aquarium resources. Remember that it is always much better to answer this question for yourself before a new animal is purchased, than to have to deal with a fish that has grown too large for its aquarium.

Most aquarists understand that every aquarium has a biological “carrying capacity” – primarily the ability for the filtration system to render the waste products produced by the animals into relatively non-toxic substances. If the carrying capacity is exceeded, the result is deteriorating water quality such as dropping pH, rising nitrate levels and in extreme cases, rising ammonia and/or declining dissolved oxygen concentrations.

Aquarists also know that each aquarium has a “territorial limit” in terms of how many fish of which species, and of what size can be safely housed together before fighting becomes an issue (Hemdal 2006). In some cases, two species will simple never be compatible. In other instances, the level of compatibility will vary depending on tank decorations, relative sizes of the fish, and even the fish’s individual nature.

Once the issue of carrying capacity and territorial limit have been resolved, there is still the third question of “how much swimming room does each of the fish require in order to remain healthy?” In the past, aquarists attempted to determine this “need for swimming space” based mostly on their own experiences. New aquarists lacking this knowledge would therefore be at a distinct disadvantage.

What is the result of keeping a fish in an aquarium that does not offer it enough swimming room? The biggest concern with fish in too small of an aquarium is that they may suffer chronic injury. If the fish cannot comfortably turn in the aquarium, it may bump its mouth, or eyes. Done enough times, this can lead to tissue damage; rubbed snouts, bulging eyes, deformed fins, etc. If the fish is showing no detrimental signs of being housed in too small of an aquarium, is there even a problem? What about the fish’s psychological well being? The question of swimming space frequently becomes an emotional issue that cannot readily be resolved.

Jay

 

[Sump Crab]

Having 2 rocks in a tank with that many fish is going to cause issues. Judging by the color of the sand, rocks, glass, etc I wouldn’t be surprised if this was an ammonia situation.

 

[Ariellemcc]

Having 2 rocks in a tank with that many fish is going to cause issues. Judging by the color of the sand, rocks, glass, etc I wouldn’t be surprised if this was an ammonia situation.

There are 6 rocks and no ammonia