Two Methodoligies to keep a reef tank

[Paul B]

I just found this old thread and re read it. Are any of you guys still around? I don't mean that you croaked or anything God Forbid.
I have been thinking about this and thought of another thing about fish and quarantining that may have a bearing on this.
All fish have a lateral line that we rarely discuss but it is one of the most important features in a fish.
It allows the fish to "feel" everything around it so the fish can get around even in the dark.
I feel, and have felt for a long time that this feature of fish becomes a detriment in a confining tank and even more so in a bare quarantine tank especially if it is smaller. Fish never crash into the walls of a glass tank even though they can't see the glass just as we can't see it as we look through. The lateral line is what keeps the fish from crashing but it also must be a huge annoyance for a fish to feel that glass, know it's there and it can't swim through it. I also have a theory that it is that overstimulated lateral line that causes HLLE because only captive fish get it.
This is one flaw of keeping fish captive that I feel we will not be able to overcome but it is a big cause of stress in fish. Of course I am only speculating.
When we put fish in a shipping bag they instantly calm down and don't go trying to crash through the plastic as they know they have no way out just like when they are in a shipping box. Even when we release a fish into our tanks sometimes they won't come out of their tiny container because they can feel the walls of the tank. (speculating again) If we release a fish into the sea, they make a bee line to the bottom.
I know we can't keep pelagic sharks in a tank with straight sides, maybe a round tank for quarantine? Just a thought.

Just something for more discussion.

 

[Dawsokj1988]

Just read through this. Awesome thread! Paul, could you give us a run-down on how you prepare you food? (fish food, not your own food)

 

[Paul B]

Hello Dawsokj1988. My fish food is easy, I think. I do use some LRS frozen foods and some commercially sold Mysis but every day I supplement that with some live blackworms and clams. I could probably use nothing but clams and live worms but that is a little more work and as I am getting older, I have less time.
I buy the biggest clams I can find. Here in New York that is easy. They are called chowder clams because they are to big to eat whole so we chop them up for chowder. They are also the cheapest clams. Each one could be a quarter of a pound and 4 or 5" wide. You can use small clams also there just isn't much meat in small clams. I slightly open the live clams and stick something thin in their shell, like my wallet. That is to make it easier to open them after they are frozen. Then I fully open them and shave off paper thin slices like you would shave a slab of chocolate. You can make the pieces as large or small as you like for different fish. Small fish can eat rather large slices because it is tissue paper thin and I feel clams are probably the best food for fish because they are getting the guts "and" bacteria. Scallop, squid, octopus, shrimp, and fish are not good foods because in those foods you are only feeding the muscle and discarding the guts where all the nutrition, oil and bacteria are. We humans don't eat those parts, but most of us are not fish. Fish eat whole foods and don't spit out the bones or guts.
If you see a dead fish in a tank, the guts are eaten first. The tail section which is all muscle is eaten after the guts are gone.
Live worms (of any type) are very healthful mainly due to the living bacteria that fills their gut. That living bacteria is almost impossible to find in commercial foods. Some manufacturers do add pro biotics which are great, but those would only be what we would call good bacteria. Fish also need bad bacteria to keep their immunity up which is why my fish are immune from seemingly everything and have been for decades.
I can't post pictures now as Photobucket isn't working.

So in short, I take a little frozen Mysis and some LRS food and thaw it in a container. Then I add some thin slices of clam and add maybe 20 live worms. That's what my fish get every day.
For the mandarins, scooters, pipefish, anhias and a few others, I hatch and feed (in my feeder) brine shrimp every day. They also contain living bacteria and a yolk sack so those pod eating fish can live out their natural lifespan.

 

[Paul B]

Video eating some new born brine shrimp. Without this food it is almost impossable to keep some of these fish.

 

[Maacc]

Paul,
I know you are a big proponent of using mud. Given the choice for some mud to use in my fuge, would you use mud from the mangrove sand flat or grass beds just outside of the reef? I am setting up a new 180 and I have a place in Islamorada so I have options.

 

[Paul B]

I have been there many times. Those mangrove Islands are mostly broken shell but in the shallow water surrounding them is mud. I would take it from there. Sand and broken shells wouldn't have as much bacteria as mud which has a lot of organic matter. I would also use that water, but not from right under a Manatee.



This "mulm" would be great to have a little. This was around Key Largo.


I may not want to use this. But they make a great Clean up crew.

 

[jd371]

Paul, I've been meaning to collect some mud to add to the sump, but have been too busy lately. Definitely going this weekend, probably the South Shore because it's closer. I will be collecting from the flats on the backside of Jones Beach. You mentioned before you just dump it around your tank. What about any unwanted critters, how do you sort them out? How much should I add?

 

[Paul B]

I don't get any unwanted critters. The water here gets cold in the winter and except for amphipods which are good, most other life would die in our tanks. Any crabs will live but you can see those and take them out.
Just take a handful of mud and squirt it behind the rocks or if you have a sump, throw it in there.

 

[Dawsokj1988]

Thanks Paul for the write up on the food. Curious, do you add any fish or krill oil, or recommend it?

 

[Paul B]

If I don't have any worms which is very rare I would add some Krill oil to some pellets but the fish I have now won't eat pellets. If I had a lionfish or moray eel I would inject Krill oil into a shrimp or fish to feed it to them. But the worms and clams I feed are very healthy so I don't need it right now.

 

[alanbetiger]

Just saw this thread pop up. What's your stance on silversides? If your theory is correct they should contain a larger amount of oil than other prepared foods. Depending on company they would also have an intact GI tract. There wouldn't be any difference in bacteria population in the GI tract compared to any of your foods that you have freeze dried or frozen to cut into smaller pieces. Silversides would be way easier for many people to source as well.
I definitely agree decrease stress and increasing nutrition are huge problems the average reefer need to overcome for health in their tanks.

 

[ngoodermuth]

A round quarantine tank would be cool, but then shouldn't all of our tanks be round too? Interesting theory.

I feel like I am halfway between the two methodologies. I QT and prophylactically treat my fish to prevent parasites, but I also feed live and fresh foods from a variety of sources.

My thoughts are to eliminate parasites when I can and keep my fish as healthy as possible thereafter with proper feeding to ward off bacterial and viral infections.

I would love to have as "natural" of a system as possible... but I'm just not brave enough to ditch the safety of QT [emoji12]

 

[Paul B]

Alanbetiger, silversides, as long as they are salt water silversides are one of the best foods you can have. The only problem with them is they are very big. They are great for predators like moray eels, puffers and lionfish but most of my fish are small wrasses, gobies, pipefish, bleenies and dragonettes. I have been telling manufacturers for decades that the best food would be tiny frozen fish. The sea is full of them and I can get them freeze dried but anything freeze dried is useless and my fish won't even eat it. Fish fry between an eighth and a quarter of an inch would be all the food we would need for almost all fish because that is exactly what most fish in the sea eat and they have the exact proportions of vitamins, minerals and oil that fish need.

See these fry, That is what the majority of fish in the sea eat. They don't eat much scallop, octopus, squid, shrimp tails or fish fillet. They certainly eat some of those things but fry are all over the place so I can't see a copperband butterfly or clown gobi wrestling a squid for lunch.
I have been diving for almost fifty years and that is what fish eat. I asked them.

Ngoodermuth, if you quarantine or not you should still give your fish the best possible diet and that is whole foods with one ingredient like worm, clam, or mussel. I feed mostly clams and live worms.

 

[alanbetiger]

Yeah I was just thinking silversides finely chopped, blended or pureed. Like I said just a little bit easier to source for some people.

 

[Paul B]

You can do that but it is very messy. Their liver bursts and gets oil all over the place. It would be much better if you could just get tiny fish.

 

[BantyRooster97]

Great read, thanks for all the info. I never really considered live food for my current fish, but will getting some soon and may take one of my small tanks and start a brine shrimp factory.

 

[Paul B]

Sounds like a plan

 

[BantyRooster97]

@Paul B, do you dose? Since you don't really do water changes.

 

[Paul B]

No, just calcium and alk. Usually I use driveway ice melter for calcium and baking soda for alk.

I change 100 gallons of water a year in my 100 gallon tank.