Unhappy torch not sure why?

[Glacern]

Params:
Alk: 8.2
Nitrate: 10.0
Phosphate: 0.07
Calcium: 410
Magnesium: 1300

Video:

My torches flesh band seems to be slowly receding and not extending as full. I can always see its mouth in the center as well. Doesn’t seem like any fish are picking at it (arc eye hawk, 2 oscellaris clowns, springer damsel, diamond goby). I dipped before and no pests came off of it. Par is about 150.

 

[mcarroll]

Doesn't look that bad to me, but how long have you had it and how long has this been going on?

The numbers you posted seem OK, but N & P could be a little higher maybe. How consistent are those numbers?

 

[Jack’s Reef 2024]

I agree it looks fine to me. If tissue is receding bad you can dip but it overall looks good parameters seem on point. How old is your tank?

 

[Glacern]

Doesn't look that bad to me, but how long have you had it and how long has this been going on?

The numbers you posted seem OK, but N & P could be a little higher maybe. How consistent are those numbers?

About a month but the tissue has slowly been receding. The numbers stay pretty consistent, but phosphates drop down to 0.03 sometimes.

 

[Glacern]

I agree it looks fine to me. If tissue is receding bad you can dip but it overall looks good parameters seem on point. How old is your tank?

It has been slowly receding, what would you use to dip? Tank is about 3 months old but used all live media and lots of different bacteria added. Parameters have stayed consistent.

 

[mcarroll]

About a month but the tissue has slowly been receding. The numbers stay pretty consistent, but phosphates drop down to 0.03 sometimes.

do you know why it dips like that sometimes?

In my opinion, that is your culprit right there!

 

[Glacern]

do you know why it dips like that sometimes?

In my opinion, that is your culprit right there!

I think just over filtration at times, I have slowly taken out some bio media so it doesn't go too low.

 

[mcarroll]

that is for sure your problem.

Can you describe your filtration and care set up at the moment?

Maybe there are some further adjustments you can make.

 

[Glacern]

that is for sure your problem.

Can you describe your filtration and care set up at the moment?

Maybe there are some further adjustments you can make.

Using nanospect bio bricks (2), some of their bio balls as well, chemi pure blue, UV, weaning off nopox to use algae scrubber, protein skimmer. Have some live rock and some dry rock that is probably sucking in phosphate.

 

[mcarroll]

Using nanospect bio bricks (2), some of their bio balls as well, chemi pure blue, UV, weaning off nopox to use algae scrubber, protein skimmer. Have some live rock and some dry rock that is probably sucking in phosphate.

if I were in your shoes, I would pull the bio bricks, bio balls, chemi pure and cease NOPOX without more hesitation.

see how things go with just the protein skimmer.

(It doesn't sound like you need an algae scrubber at all.)

 

[Glacern]

if I were in your shoes, I would pull the bio bricks, bio balls, chemi pure and cease NOPOX without more hesitation.

see how things go with just the protein skimmer.

(It doesn't sound like you need an algae scrubber at all.)

the nitrates were up at around 30-40 so the reason for having nopox was to bring it down now it maintains a steady 10. Im a little hesitant on removing them all at once so maybe start slow?

 

[Glacern]

if I were in your shoes, I would pull the bio bricks, bio balls, chemi pure and cease NOPOX without more hesitation.

see how things go with just the protein skimmer.

(It doesn't sound like you need an algae scrubber at all.)

Now that I think of it, it may be from the live phyto for dropping phosphates

 

[mcarroll]

the nitrates were up at around 30-40 so the reason for having nopox was to bring it down now it maintains a steady 10. Im a little hesitant on removing them all at once so maybe start slow?

Now that I think of it, it may be from the live phyto for dropping phosphates

You have a number of "unwanted" demands on the system's available dissolved phosphate.

Carbon dosing (nopox) mostly depends on increasing bacterial mass to reduce nutrients. That requires N and P....and if N is out of balance, that means you will tend to drive P to zero. Plus you're using GFO in the chemipure.

Arguably you might have elevated N in the first place due to the excess bio-media....many reef organisms will utilize ammonia, some may almost require it. But bio-media, by design and intention, serves only to proces NHx into NOx at the fastest rate possible. (Bacteria will use it up faster and to a lower level than anything else, given the conditions.) That's great for a fish tank filter, but not really geared to how a reef works.

As far as hesitating...of course that is up to you, but I will add some more thoughts:

IMO once you solve the mystery (IMO: ☑), then that's cause for action.

Unless the tank is nursing a latent hair algae outbreak....and/or you have an undisclosed knack for overfeeding....and as long as the proportion of live rock is "right" in your tank (ie not some "ultra minimal" setup), I don't think I'd hesitate pulling all of it at once.

That said, if you want to (for example) stop GFO and nopox today, pull 1/2 the biomedia tomorrow and 1/2 on thursday or something like that, then no biggie....but I wouldn't draw it out too much.

Feel free to run an ammo alert badge or otherwise scale up your testing during the transition if it will help you be confident about what's going on in the tank. You can even keep the biomedia live (wet) for a while as a fall back plan....it would start working immediately like it had never been removed.

IMO there's only upside to doing this....risk is either nil or almost zero. (There is definitely more risk in doing nothing.)

Check out this journal article that really shows (in pictures) what your coral is going through with the low/dipping phosphates. Your coral is still in the early stages of the third scenario, "HN/LP":

 

[Glacern]

the nitrates were up at around 30-40 so the reason for having nopox was to bring it down now it maintains a steady 10. Im a little hesitant on removing them all at once so maybe start slow?

Now that I think of it, it may be from the live phyto for dropping phosphates

You have a number of "unwanted" demands on the system's available dissolved phosphate.

Carbon dosing (nopox) mostly depends on increasing bacterial mass to reduce nutrients. That requires N and P....and if N is out of balance, that means you will tend to drive P to zero. Plus you're using GFO in the chemipure.

Arguably you might have elevated N in the first place due to the excess bio-media....many reef organisms will utilize ammonia, some may almost require it. But bio-media, by design and intention, serves only to proces NHx into NOx at the fastest rate possible. (Bacteria will use it up faster and to a lower level than anything else, given the conditions.) That's great for a fish tank filter, but not really geared to how a reef works.

As far as hesitating...of course that is up to you, but I will add some more thoughts:

IMO once you solve the mystery (IMO: ☑), then that's cause for action.

Unless the tank is nursing a latent hair algae outbreak....and/or you have an undisclosed knack for overfeeding....and as long as the proportion of live rock is "right" in your tank (ie not some "ultra minimal" setup), I don't think I'd hesitate pulling all of it at once.

That said, if you want to (for example) stop GFO and nopox today, pull 1/2 the biomedia tomorrow and 1/2 on thursday or something like that, then no biggie....but I wouldn't draw it out too much.

Feel free to run an ammo alert badge or otherwise scale up your testing during the transition if it will help you be confident about what's going on in the tank. You can even keep the biomedia live (wet) for a while as a fall back plan....it would start working immediately like it had never been removed.

IMO there's only upside to doing this....risk is either nil or almost zero. (There is definitely more risk in doing nothing.)

Check out this journal article that really shows (in pictures) what your coral is going through with the low/dipping phosphates. Your coral is still in the early stages of the third scenario, "HN/LP":

Wow thank you so much for the detailed response the picture really does put it into perspective. You have me convinced, the last thing I ask is what would you have your nitrates and phosphates running at?

 

[mcarroll]

In the short run ≥0.10 ppm PO4 and ≥5 ppm NO3 wouldn't be bad minimums to assure. (Higher numbers are OK too.)

You might even consider dosing a little PO4 to even things out in the short run too....establish that 0.10 ppm concentration at the start. You can wait for N to come down naturally.

BTW, note that those can be good numbers in the medium or long term as well.

But also that you can see plenty of mature tanks where levels end up where they end up (higher or lower), and the corals are still happy. Mature reefs recycle nutrients better than new tanks, among other factors, so there can be less dependency on dissolved nutrients in some cases.