Upgraded to a new tank

[Timandkatereef]

Hey everyone!

So on December 14,2024 my girlfriend and I purchased an ice cube 15 gallon nano. After sitting around. We both agreed we wanted a bigger tank.

Flash forwarded to February 14 we purchased an ice cube 38 gallon cube nano for a great price. That day we transferred from the old tank to the new

Between 8-10 gallons water
Approx. 17 pounds of cured live rock,
filter sponge and bio rocks

We Added 18 lbs of cured live rock
New sand
And added more water.
And a comline doc skimmer 9001 dc

Today we tested the water parameters and the readings are…

Ammonia	Nirite	Nitrate	Kh	Phos	Cal	Mag	PH
0.4	0.1	8	145	0	364	969	8.2

my concerned is the ammonia Bec we have live stock in the fish which include yellow watchman golby and two clowns. Are we on the right path and should we be concerned?

 

[ReefStable]

You can use something like Seachem Prime for a couple days. But if it goes on much more than that, you may want to move the fish to a cycled tank or QT to let the new tank cycle.

 

[Ron Reefman]

If your ammonia level goes up, consider setting the small tank back up and moving the fish to it and be prepared to do water changes.

Your fish can survive quite well on a reduced feed schedule. Excess food just rots and becomes ammonia, so don't over feed until the ammonia level goes down to zero.

 

[brandon429]

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

Kill events in tank transfers come from the old sand, that wasn’t used here.


Ammonia doesn’t rise up after a tank transfer and hold for three days while the water is clear, animals fine, pics look normal.

Three days of ammonia noncontrol is a tank crash, and crashing tanks look opposite in pictures of happy ones.

So, the tank pic is the judge not the nh4 guess level


I bet that tank pic looks normal, they always do.

Why would ammonia rise? Well, on that kit, I have ten handy examples where api was grossly over reporting ammonia levels in perfectly undisturbed tanks. I’m amazed .4 is all it said. The test kit is wrong, it’s always wrong and never matches the tank pics.


(Api can misread on tanks that merely get rocks moved around in the scape, no particular insult, nobody has found the cause yet. Ask any seneye owner to post you their logs, then move some rocks around, and see if ammonia spiked and held on the logs after the move)

If you’d said all your stuff died in the first two hours I could believe it was 2% possible at that point.

 

[Garf]

This thread will be great for the ammonia misread collection and a continuance on the psychology of reef tank cycling-namely, umpires believing absolutely any reported level as incontestable and not asking for supporting proofs, such as a pic of the dying tank. There’s no ammonia event here, post tank pics and we can dissect it.

*this isn’t stated flippantly. It’s stated by running the largest tank transfer work thread on the internet with hundreds of jobs logged. Kill events aren’t delayed in reef tank transfers, they’re fast and swift and same day when due.

Ammonia doesn’t rise up after a tank transfer and hold for three days while the water is clear, animals fine, pics look normal.

Three days of ammonia noncontrol is a tank crash, and crashing tanks look opposite in pictures of happy ones.

So, the tank pic is the judge not the nh4 guess level


I bet that tank pic looks normal, they always do.

Yeah, now you are reverting back to the confusion you spread by mixing up NH3 and NH3/NH4, I expect to bolster your workthread claims. It's known that any interruption or interference to a tank can raise ammonia a little, and by and large fish deal with it well.

 

[brandon429]

The specific action to take is:

1. Put away the ammonia test kits and nitrite test kits and never run them in a reef display, they’ll mislead you. Updated cycling science tells you what ammonia is doing in any reef tank setting without testing, find those threads and learn them to be cycle test free in reefing. That step alone would prevent this whole thread. There isn’t any time in reefing you need to test for ammonia using that kit, we can predict it’s status far more accurately.

2. Take no action at all, by now the new tank has stabilized. Post a tank pic

 

[Garf]

You can use something like Seachem Prime

By testing done by clever folk on this forum, it's highly unlikely prime does anything for ammonia control.

 

[Timandkatereef]

The specific action to take is:

1. Put away the ammonia test kits and nitrite test kits and never run them in a reef display, they’ll mislead you. Updated cycling science tells you what ammonia is doing in any reef tank setting without testing, find those threads and learn them to be cycle test free in reefing. That step alone would prevent this whole thread. There isn’t any time in reefing you need to test for ammonia using that kit, we can predict it’s status far more accurately.

2. Take no action at all, by now the new tank has stabilized. Post a tank pic

 

[Timandkatereef]

The specific action to take is:

1. Put away the ammonia test kits and nitrite test kits and never run them in a reef display, they’ll mislead you. Updated cycling science tells you what ammonia is doing in any reef tank setting without testing, find those threads and learn them to be cycle test free in reefing. That step alone would prevent this whole thread. There isn’t any time in reefing you need to test for ammonia using that kit, we can predict it’s status far more accurately.

2. Take no action at all, by now the new tank has stabilized. Post a tank pic

 

[brandon429]

I don’t fault anyone for believing the test kits, that’s the basic training foundation of our hobby, to do a test then reaction.

It just doesn’t apply to ammonia using api due to multiple triggers for high readings even if ammonia is fine. Can you run an ammonia test / fresh one and post the pic of the reading after the five mins wait period

That will be an important tie in

Excellent pic for sure hold course. To see the test today and know if it’s darker or lighter than two days ago would help regarding test kit calibration. On an seneye system, that’s a skip cycle tank transfer. Doesn’t matter what api reads but I’m curious to know

Prediction
Dark green (subjective eval) won’t be accurate at all.

But a light green reading, requiring estimation to get to the degree reported but still light green is a safe reading for an api system. They’re not designed to read hard yellow zero in running reefs, they run low levels like .25 or a little higher, often. Thanks for updating. Your system above is not in cycle, compare your after pics to our rolls of post tank transfer after pics.

Interesting detail from the sand rinse work thread: no ammonia testing

Any job, ever, we don’t want the reports there. Look how smooth it all runs with updated rules that ammonia control isn’t a maybe in the new tank, it’s expected. We don’t test that which we are already sure of, and what keeps the method going are occasional seneye owners who do tank moves and document the outcomes. They’re our spot checkers

Nobody with a seneye has seen a stalled reef tank cycle, that’s the domain of color tube test kits only.

Anything a calibrated seneye machine says about ammonia in a reef tank, I’ll take note. The cool thing about hundreds of seneye readings available for various tank jobs is those readings tell us what rules non seneye owner tanks also follow regarding ammonia control, even if they don’t own the meter to prove it. It’s strong transferable biology, the ability to know what ammonia is doing in one reef by using the measures from another separate reef tank (but both are employing a cycled stack of rocks)

If it’s not a seneye reading, you’re much much better off using testless cycling methods that use # of days wait time to know when a cycle is ready.

 

[Timandkatereef]

I don’t fault anyone for believing the test kits, that’s the basic training foundation of our hobby, to do a test then reaction.

It just doesn’t apply to ammonia using api due to multiple triggers for high readings even if ammonia is fine. Can you run an ammonia test / fresh one and post the pic of the reading after the five mins wait period

That will be an important tie in

Excellent pic for sure hold course. To see the test today and know if it’s darker or lighter than two days ago would help regarding test kit calibration. On an seneye system, that’s a skip cycle tank transfer. Doesn’t matter what api reads but I’m curious to know

Prediction
Dark green (subjective eval) won’t be accurate at all.

But a light green reading, requiring estimation to get to the degree reported but still light green is a safe reading for an api system. They’re not designed to read hard yellow zero in running reefs, they run low levels like .25 or a little higher, often. Thanks for updating. Your system above is not in cycle, compare your after pics to our rolls of post tank transfer after pics.

Interesting detail from the sand rinse work thread: no ammonia testing

Any job, ever, we don’t want the reports there. Look how smooth it all runs with updated rules that ammonia control isn’t a maybe in the new tank, it’s expected. We don’t test that which we are already sure of, and what keeps the method going are occasional seneye owners who do tank moves and document the outcomes. They’re our spot checkers

Nobody with a seneye has seen a stalled reef tank cycle, that’s the domain of color tube test kits only.

Anything a calibrated seneye machine says about ammonia in a reef tank, I’ll take note. The cool thing about hundreds of seneye readings available for various tank jobs is those readings tell us what rules non seneye owner tanks also follow regarding ammonia control, even if they don’t own the meter to prove it. It’s strong transferable biology, the ability to know what ammonia is doing in one reef by using the measures from another separate reef tank (but both are employing a cycled stack of rocks)

If it’s not a seneye reading, you’re much much better off using testless cycling methods that use # of days wait time to know when a cycle is ready.

So the reading from yesterday was taken from “AQUASPIN™ test”.

 

[brandon429]

Very good info. I have some bias against those since they run off api color tubes and they report as nh4 (you then have to estimate a 10x reduction to .0x for any ammonia measure to apply for reefing, nh4 levels must be reduced before reported for measure, pet stores don’t tell saltwater tankers that part and they’re left with undue alarm)

My Hanna test are off from LFS tester

I took my water into the LFS today to double check water parameters. I use all Hanna testers except for magnesium which I use salifert. I was surprised at a few differences and I don’t know what to make of it. My at home test: Alk 150 Calcium: 440 Mag: 1400 LFS test: Alk: 130 Cal: 330...

www.reef2reef.com

But still that’s the going measure for the public, any pet store running those isn’t going to be viewed as using weak gear to disagree with aqua spin is either crazy or it’s about to be proven once seneye takes over the reporting base in cycle threads.

The hidden way that cycling works is that your stack of rocks either commands most of the ammonia available any given minute or it can’t, and a tipping point will occur. There is no middle holding phase, just above safety level. You either have the surface area or you don’t, what ammonia does is most all or nothing, and fast. That rule overrides what nh4 test kits might read, tank to tank but lfs’ may not know it. New cycling science

Your tank is in great condition

 

[Timandkatereef]

Very good info. I have some bias against those since they run off api color tubes and they report as nh4 (you then have to estimate a 10x reduction to .0x for any ammonia measure to apply for reefing, nh4 levels must be reduced before reported for measure, pet stores don’t tell saltwater tankers that part and they’re left with undue alarm)

My Hanna test are off from LFS tester

I took my water into the LFS today to double check water parameters. I use all Hanna testers except for magnesium which I use salifert. I was surprised at a few differences and I don’t know what to make of it. My at home test: Alk 150 Calcium: 440 Mag: 1400 LFS test: Alk: 130 Cal: 330...

www.reef2reef.com

But still that’s the going measure for the public, any pet store running those isn’t going to be viewed as using weak gear to disagree with aqua spin is either crazy or it’s about to be proven once seneye takes over the reporting base in cycle threads.

The hidden way that cycling works is that your stack of rocks either commands most of the ammonia available any given minute or it can’t, and a tipping point will occur. There is no middle holding phase, just above safety level. You either have the surface area or you don’t, what ammonia does is most all or nothing, and fast. That rule overrides what nh4 test kits might read, tank to tank but lfs’ may not know it. New cycling science

Your tank is in great condition

Here is an update what the tanks looks like on day 5

 

[Timandkatereef]

Very good info. I have some bias against those since they run off api color tubes and they report as nh4 (you then have to estimate a 10x reduction to .0x for any ammonia measure to apply for reefing, nh4 levels must be reduced before reported for measure, pet stores don’t tell saltwater tankers that part and they’re left with undue alarm)

My Hanna test are off from LFS tester

I took my water into the LFS today to double check water parameters. I use all Hanna testers except for magnesium which I use salifert. I was surprised at a few differences and I don’t know what to make of it. My at home test: Alk 150 Calcium: 440 Mag: 1400 LFS test: Alk: 130 Cal: 330...

www.reef2reef.com

But still that’s the going measure for the public, any pet store running those isn’t going to be viewed as using weak gear to disagree with aqua spin is either crazy or it’s about to be proven once seneye takes over the reporting base in cycle threads.

The hidden way that cycling works is that your stack of rocks either commands most of the ammonia available any given minute or it can’t, and a tipping point will occur. There is no middle holding phase, just above safety level. You either have the surface area or you don’t, what ammonia does is most all or nothing, and fast. That rule overrides what nh4 test kits might read, tank to tank but lfs’ may not know it. New cycling science

Your tank is in great condition

Here is an update what the tanks looks like on day 5

 

[Garf]

Here is an update what the tanks looks like on day 5

How toxic is ammonia, really?

In the context of trying to understand why so many people believe Seachem Prime was useful for them in an elevated ammonia situation, against the data in the link below about Prime potentially doing nothing to free ammonia in seawater, the question arises, why...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

Yes that layer of diatom growth is expected under strong lights, I’d reduce lighting power until such coral loading requires it

And clean up the existing growths, keep it clean and guided like a top notch garden don’t let it get invaded. There’s no enduring ammonia issue there for sure.

 

[brandon429]

Let’s see an ammonia test on it

I know I said they weren’t needed but just curious how long it’s going to lag here

 

[Timandkatereef]

Let’s see an ammonia test on it

I know I said they weren’t needed but just curious how long it’s going to lag here

At the moment I have the seachem alert series In the tank it is indicating it’s at <0.02

 

[brandon429]

That’s perfect really good. Now time to get some corals to fill in the spaces, be feeding and doing export water changes along with manual rock cleaning, outside the tank. Siphon up any mats on the sand and lower lighting levels just a little, that’s how to keep it perfectly running.